We woke early this morning to the CO monitors going off. I immediately smelled acrid smoke (no smoke was visible in the house) and knew the pellet stove must be having an issue. Opened some windows to shut the alarms off. My wife said she shut the stove odwn last night before she came to bed because she said it smelled. I opened the stove door and smoke started pouring into the room so I quickly shut the door. I put the stove in test mode a few times to turn the exhaust fan on and push the smoke outside. I opened the door again and saw that there were alot of unburned pellets in the ash collector bin and some of those were smoldering/smoking. I rremoved the bin and put it in the snow outside. The feed setting is always set at 4, sensor is room temp and I run it in auto ignite. Last time I cleaned the stove/burnpot/exhaust blower cage/baffles/etc... was two weeks ago, right before I went away on business. When I got up yesterday morning (red eye flight night before) the house was cold and the stove was off with blinking panel. I didn't count the blinks. Not the first time this has happened. I have had to change the igniter twice since buying this stove six years ago. Besides the unburned pellets in the ash bin, the burn pot was also overloaded with unburned pellets. I dumped the bin and scraped the burn pot and made a couple attempts to get it to light before she finally started to work. I noticed the flame was lazy when it finally lit. I had several errands to run yesterday and noticed in between running them that the stove had shut down again with blinking code. Reset and got it going again. Other than needing an obvious cleaning I'm wondering if it is time to have it fully serviced by the dealer. May be time for a new door gasket too since the door glass is getting increasingly creosoted up. This past winter I have had a number of problems with the stove. ESP sensor went bad, blower sometimes doesn't come on in high (I think blower control potentiometer on the electronic board may need to be checked/cleaned/replaced), the auger started making grinding noises sometimes and there are frequent pops, pings and bangs coming from the stove. I'm going to give it a good cleaning today, check the exhaust piping is clear and see what happens when I put it back iinto auto - only have 5 bags left to burn for this season. Besides cleaning any other thoughts, ideas?
Harmon XXV
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So.......... a dirty stove would have cause unburned and smoldering pellets to feed into the ash bin? I have had this stove going almost non-stop for longer than two weeks over the years without a cleaning and have never had this happen before - just lucky?
I just opened up the door and there is an awful acrid odor and there is a coating of creosote or sticky resin on everything! I checked the igniter wires and they appear fine. I haven't pulled the back off yet to inspect the blower and wires. I can see light through the exhaust port so I believe the stack is not clogged but will inspect from outside too. I'm thinking this is beyond just a dirty stove? As I said before - been there and done that, lazy flame and all, but this is different. Considering having a dealer tech perform a thorough go over, just a waste of money? The blower speed potentiometer is either dirty or worn out anyway and I don't want to get into the electronics with replacing the pot. Glad the season is practically over - I hope.
Thanks for the replies.
Bill
I just opened up the door and there is an awful acrid odor and there is a coating of creosote or sticky resin on everything! I checked the igniter wires and they appear fine. I haven't pulled the back off yet to inspect the blower and wires. I can see light through the exhaust port so I believe the stack is not clogged but will inspect from outside too. I'm thinking this is beyond just a dirty stove? As I said before - been there and done that, lazy flame and all, but this is different. Considering having a dealer tech perform a thorough go over, just a waste of money? The blower speed potentiometer is either dirty or worn out anyway and I don't want to get into the electronics with replacing the pot. Glad the season is practically over - I hope.
Thanks for the replies.
Bill
newf lover
Minister of Fire
First, count the blinks. If it's 5 blinks it means the stove has failed to ignite within 36 minutes. My burnpot had unburned pellets in it that went into the ash bin too right before the igniter failed. Doubtful that's your problem. If your stove is clean, then obviously something else is up and I would save yourself some time and get a tech to come over and test a few things. You shouldn't be getting creosote in your stove. Sounds like more than a dirty stove to me.
smwilliamson
The Stove Guy
I'm wondering if the creosote/resin was from the smoldering pellets in the ash bin - there was heavy smoke in the stove and the blower was off so it wasn't being exhausted out the stack. Could it be pine wood was mixed in to the hardwoods when the pellets were processed? New England is the brand I have always burned. I noticed that the pellets are alot shinier this season, there is more dust in the bags and the pellets are longer in length. I also noticed this past season that I was getting large pieces of crusted up ash on the burn pot which would eventually get pushed off and into the ash pan, never had those before either.
I just gave it a thorough cleaning. Cleaned the ESP sensor with alcohol. The exhaust blower wasn't bad. The stack is clear. There is still some sticky black residue on the baffles and other areas which I can't just knock/scrape off entirely. I cleaned and washed the ash bin to remove the crusted resin crap that was stuck to it. I probably will replace the door and the glass gaskets too in the off season.
I am at wits end here. I can't get the stove to light in auto, just keeps feeding the pellets and they drop unburned into the bin. I tried three times to let it go and ignite. I will have it serviced this spring/summer by an authorized dealer tech unless I smash it to pieces before then with a sledge hammer. It better not need another igniter, three replacements in five years is just poor quality/design.
I just gave it a thorough cleaning. Cleaned the ESP sensor with alcohol. The exhaust blower wasn't bad. The stack is clear. There is still some sticky black residue on the baffles and other areas which I can't just knock/scrape off entirely. I cleaned and washed the ash bin to remove the crusted resin crap that was stuck to it. I probably will replace the door and the glass gaskets too in the off season.
I am at wits end here. I can't get the stove to light in auto, just keeps feeding the pellets and they drop unburned into the bin. I tried three times to let it go and ignite. I will have it serviced this spring/summer by an authorized dealer tech unless I smash it to pieces before then with a sledge hammer. It better not need another igniter, three replacements in five years is just poor quality/design.
newf lover
Minister of Fire
OK, I want to change my answer. It could be the pellets. I know it's the end of the season, but maybe grab a bag or 2 of something else and give it a shot. I haven't heard too many good things about NEWP lately. Worth a shot anyway. Good luck.
Hey Scott, the manual online says 3 blinks is the ESP, not 5. You might fix stoves pretty well, but I'm a librarian. Of course, I do have a head cold and I'm taking all kinds of cold meds, so I could be wrong! It is definitely time to go to sleep.
Aqualab, hope you get to the bottom of your issue. Fortunately it's getting to the end of the season.
Hey Scott, the manual online says 3 blinks is the ESP, not 5. You might fix stoves pretty well, but I'm a librarian. Of course, I do have a head cold and I'm taking all kinds of cold meds, so I could be wrong! It is definitely time to go to sleep.
Aqualab, hope you get to the bottom of your issue. Fortunately it's getting to the end of the season.
MSmith66
Feeling the Heat
I have replaced the ESP probe without the 5 blinks. Sometimes the blinks are not there and it does take sometime to notice the issues. Unburn pellets,no heat and alot of flame. Just some issues without the warning.smwilliamson said:
So should I replace the ESP sensor first? Is ther a way to check the ESP - OHMs? The igniters are pricey, would hate to have to replace that one again.
kinsmanstoves
Minister of Fire
Clean the stove and the venting. Where is the stove and what does the vent consist of? Have you contacted your dealer?
Eric
Eric
The vent and stove was thoroughly cleaned. In fact when I was cleaning the vent I had the exhaust fan running and it was helping to blow out the soot while I was scraping the pipe's sidewalls. The vent pipe wasn't bad - no creosote buildup. Appears the creosote residue was contained in the stove itself because the smoke was not exhausted out the vent - fan was off. My vent runs horizontally - 4'.
So now with it cleaned it will not ignite. Either the ESP is bad or the igniter failed again. So if the igniter had failed during a burn session could that cause some partially burned pellets to be advanced/pushed into the ash bin by unburned pellets? Which caused the smoke and CO alarms to go off. 35 minutes of unburned pellets being augered up the burn pot and into the ash bin on top of the smoldering pellets.
So now with it cleaned it will not ignite. Either the ESP is bad or the igniter failed again. So if the igniter had failed during a burn session could that cause some partially burned pellets to be advanced/pushed into the ash bin by unburned pellets? Which caused the smoke and CO alarms to go off. 35 minutes of unburned pellets being augered up the burn pot and into the ash bin on top of the smoldering pellets.
Can you manually light the stove to rule out ESP? If you light it, and it runs fine, then it might be the ignitor. I am not a Harman owner, so I don't know if you can light it yourself. Seems like you should be able to. P38 is Manual light. Little firestarting gel or a blowtorch gets it done. Any Harman owners out there know if you can manually light if your ignitor is bad? Just a suggestion.
kinsmanstoves
Minister of Fire
aqualab said:
Is there a chance that you have to much wind blowing into the exhaust? 4' horizontal sounds excessive. No elbows, tees, or vertical rise?
Eric
aqualab said:
If the ignitor is failed, you'll want to put the unit in MANUAL, but you still can run the unit without the ignitor. You can test the leads to the ignitor as well, should have 45-49 ohms resistance.....when the ignitor fails, you have no continuity. I have never seen an ignitor that sometimes works and sometimes doesnt.
Partially burned pellets could be the ESP....could also be the room temp probe is in a cool spot....try sticking the stove in STOVE mode, see if it alleviates the partially burned pellet issue. Also, if the ESP is faulty, the unit wont run worth a darn, or at all.
MSmith66
Feeling the Heat
aqualab said:
Have you cleaned under the burn grate? Most times the ignitor fins are full of fines and won't allow the air to pass over the fins to ignite the pellets.
Thanks for all the ideas. I started the stove up last night manually and it has been working great. One thing that is wierd is that the front glass would always get dirty quickly before and as of this morning it is still clear/clean? So I would suspect that my igniter failed again (this will be the third one in four years) and the ESP is working as it should. I will pull the back plate later today to access the igniter wires and check the resistance. I'm tempted to just say the hell with the auto lighter and go with manual from here on out and send Harmon a nasty email thanking them for their quality parts. If the stove/room reaches required temp (like in the middle of the night) won't the fire go out requiring me to again manually light it? That is the only drawback I see to going manual all the time.
aqualab said:
No. The stove will shift to a "low-burn" at 3 degrees above the set temperature & kinda "tread water" there til the room sensor
reaches 2 degrees below the set point & calls for more heat. It won't go out...
Great, then I will just go with that method from here on out. I can't see paying $130 for another igniter, they must be low quality.
Is there any warranty on OEM replacement parts? Mention that to Harman in your email. Of course they will refer you to the dealer. They have a page on their web site for customer survey, if they really read them is another thing. Glad to see its running OK.
I know that Harman changed there igniter a few years ago, and now there better, they put some protection around the wires because they were getting frayed by the heat. So if it's been a few years since you last changed your igniter then the new one should work better. On mine I ripped through three in just two years before I got the new and improved, since then no issue.
How can you tell the difference between the old style and the new and improved? I would imagine the dealer will sell old stock before new, so I could just end up with one of the old less reliable versions again.
Thanks
Thanks
Bill Bennion
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