Not near-boiler plumbing: DHW & storage

It don't matter what it looks like as long as it works. My wife may not agree with that statement.

Glad to see your material selection was held to one theme "copper". I like the ones that use every thing ever invented - copper,galvanized ,brass, black , PVC, CPVC & ploy and lots of hose clamps all stuffed in an area half that size. I agree with Woodsmaster as long as it's leak free and works who cares, it's yours. Nice labels & lots of valves, my kind of guy.

If it works well; that's what matters...
Nofo, I appreciate your modesty. We should trade off, I'm good with the neat plumbing and crafting-not so much with the controls. I wasn't a big fan of my Fortran/Pascal programming course.
Hey, well written website by the way. I like the humerous comments also.

That my good man doesn't hold a candle to some of the installs we run into. One in particular sticks in my mind. It made me think to myself that this must be what a pex factory looks like after an explosion.

I agree with BigBurner regarding the shutoff valves. Can't say how many times I have had to drain an entire system or boiler due to the lack of a shut off valve.

That is much simplier than my setup.

Any plumbing system that is finished, does what you need(want) it to and doesn't leak(yet) can easily be made to look better.

Turn off the lights.

This is an old pic as there is also a water filter and softener to the left of the water heater now and all the pipes are insulated, but you get the idea. Most of that piping is 1.25" though there is some 1" and 1.5" as well.

I found this website cruising around. It some backcountry lodge. Whoever installed this mess must have been getting paid by the elbow. To top it all off, these guys are off grid and must generate every watt to run this monstrosity with a diesel gen-set. As someone who lives off-grid, it makes me wanna puke! If you want the lame explanation about this thing is supposed to work, its here: http://outdoor-furnace-chatter-creek.blogspot.com/ Sorry if a re-post. This should be a sticky of what NOT to do. For your viewing displeasure:

Flameretardant, Nice system there, I especially like the pressurized crawl space hot air distribution system and the electric baseboards in an off grid setup?!?! Another fine example of the miraculous insulation value of whole logs also.

That makes me feel soooo much better about my pex and hose clamp jungle with zero isolation valves.

Its what happens when you turn loose a city plumber in the backcountry and money is no object. I heat about half their sq footage in a similar climate with 2 dinky Caleffi Solar pumps that draw 35 watts - combined. Thats it. No other electronic controls. TRV's and and an aquastat provide all the control anyone ever needs and use NO power. It runs on a couple solar panels.

I think I have the "pex factory explosion" to which heaterman was referring. :bug:

In my defense, this is an off-grid experimental two temperature (180F DHW boiler, and 120F radiant floor) system using an indirect water heater (Boilermate) as a buffer tank.

Comments (constructive) welcome...

SteveJ said:

I think I have the "pex factory explosion" to which heaterman was referring. :bug:

In my defense, this is an off-grid experimental two temperature (180F DHW boiler, and 120F radiant floor) system using an indirect water heater (Boilermate) as a buffer tank.

Comments (constructive) welcome...

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Well, it sure looks like a mess hh: LOL
I guess the pex does not lend to well to a "clean install" look, so I'm not sure if it can get to much better without causing restriction in the flow.
I read your post on thermal siphoning, and any reduction in flow would probably lesson your results.
It may not look pretty, but I commend you on your results. Especially since your running off the grid.

BTW, any chance to clean up some of the loose wires?
That would give it a cleaner look, and also lesson the chance of snagging a wire by accident.

That doesn't look like a PEX factory explosion to me.

It looks like a design prototype.

flameretardant said:

I found this website cruising around. It some backcountry lodge. Whoever installed this mess must have been getting paid by the elbow. To top it all off, these guys are off grid and must generate every watt to run this monstrosity with a diesel gen-set. As someone who lives off-grid, it makes me wanna puke! If you want the lame explanation about this thing is supposed to work, its here: http://outdoor-furnace-chatter-creek.blogspot.com/ Sorry if a re-post. This should be a sticky of what NOT to do. For your viewing displeasure:

Click to expand...

looks more like the plubing in a brewerey or a bottling plant, or a sewer plant....
and the "heat sink" seems like a ton of wood is being wasted to heat the earth, I can't imagine the heat loss of a huge tank like that half buried in the dirt, I wonder if the glycol loop is insulated worth anything? and then they post that there are electric baseboards in every room, something isn't working if you need that! and with all those zone valves it mentions guests being able to open the window if the room is too hot....WOW

Okay, I have had the day to prepare myself...and I do not want to be responsible for nofossil's speechlessness.

Any comments welcome.

flameretardant said:

I found this website cruising around. It some backcountry lodge. Whoever installed this mess must have been getting paid by the elbow. To top it all off, these guys are off grid and must generate every watt to run this monstrosity with a diesel gen-set. As someone who lives off-grid, it makes me wanna puke! If you want the lame explanation about this thing is supposed to work, its here: http://outdoor-furnace-chatter-creek.blogspot.com/ Sorry if a re-post. This should be a sticky of what NOT to do. For your viewing displeasure:

Click to expand...

That right there is a perfect example of what happens when someone starts slinging pipe and swinging wrenches before thinking all the way through the process. No design work up front usually leads to lot's of un-needed expense, extra pieces and parts, excess energy consumption and sometimes total system constipation. In other words, it don't work.
I'm willing to bet they blow through 40-50 full cords a year in that place.

A good layout for that place probably would have needed only 3 variable speed pumps with zone valves.

SteveJ said:

Okay, I have had the day to prepare myself...and I do not want to be responsible for nofossil's speechlessness.

Any comments welcome.

Click to expand...

I can't understand what's going on, or what's supposed to be going on, or what's not supposed to be going on. If it's working for you then it looks great to me.


As far as the Resort heating system, all of that extra uninsulated piping looked to me like it was an integral part of the design of the hot crawlspace plenum system, which has to rank right up there with the earth heat storage in efficiency, and I'm seriously a believer in earth heat storage!

I think I have you all beat in the PEX department. The colored lines (blue cold, red hot) are my domestic water distribution. Dedicated 1/2 pex to each fixture, no joints, no leaks! I had to have a plumber do the install due to local codes. The radiant is a bit more traditional, copper distribution for 3 zones to underfloor PEX. Got to do that myself under my plumber's "supervision". I had a great plumbing inspector (really, I did, he thought it all was pretty neat).

Project coronation- space planning is always,always an issue with the HAVC department. But it starts with the design development phase of the project. Bring in some one who has an idea of the requirements for space and systems design to work with the architect to effect the correct square footage and location in the structure. What I see is a violation of all the above. The plumbing does bother me as much as the low head room, lack of a concrete floor, a pressurized RA plenum/crawl space with dirt floor. On the plumbing side- --You have every thing that will be in the space "in there" before you start -- then do a nice to have or a have to have scenario for placement of equipment. Looks to be mostly one trade, but that's the other issue, different contractors/trades have different levels of whats a responsible quality of work. We have a saying around here, when some one does a sub part job that they are proud of. "Looks good, it's just not something I could give to a customer"

Fifties today, doors open, working my way threw two grand doing oil changes and light maintenance. Four down, backhoe is next then service truck. Bucket truck and digger derrick will have to wait ------------- out of money

Hunderliggur said:

I think I have you all beat in the PEX department. The colored lines (blue cold, red hot) are my domestic water distribution. Dedicated 1/2 pex to each fixture, no joints, no leaks! I had to have a plumber do the install due to local codes. The radiant is a bit more traditional, copper distribution for 3 zones to underfloor PEX. Got to do that myself under my plumber's "supervision". I had a great plumbing inspector (really, I did, he thought it all was pretty neat).

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I have the same manabloc as you, I installed it myself but I installed it within the stud bays and all the pex comes up from my crawlspace so it looks a little neater. Seems to work good the only thing is it takes a little time for the hot water to get to the fixtures that are further away. I dont think its possible to do a recirc unless its just on one fixture.

Cheers Huff