Accentra hopper smoke

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chweng

Member
Apr 4, 2011
16
Southeastern, PA
Long time viewer/reader of great info from all that contribute to this forum. I've read several posts that relate to this topic, but I'm in need of specific direction.
Pertinent info: Accentra FS purchased spring 2009, self installed and running Dec '09. Basement installation with 3" Pellet Vent Pro and OAK. Dec '09 to April/May '10 burned 1 ton of Pennwood Premium hardwood. Daily burn pot scraping and monthly full vacuum cleaning. Venting was brushed clean at end of season. Oct '10 until this weekend burned 1.75 tons (1 ton Barefoots, 0.75 tons Pennwood) with same cleaning regimine as previous season. Fines chamber was cleaned out at end of first season and midway thru this season. For the record, I'm a pellet sifter (just trying to do all the right things).
This weekend I burned until the hopper was empty so I could do a full end of year cleaning and I noticed a good amount of smoke in the hopper...I knew this wasn't good! After the stove was empty and shut down, I began my cleaning. The fines chamber is a sticky mess. It wasn't when I checked/emptied it in the middle of this season. I pulled the tube off the pressure sensor and blew into it to see if the tube or muffler was plugged...it was clear. I never had any error blink codes and all burning seemed normal. It sure seems as if there was alot of smoke in the feeder chamber for awhile and I never knew it. It appears I have the dreaded gummy stove syndrome. Pictures attached.
Is this something I should take up with my dealer? Will my warranty cover this?
Thanks for any advice/help.
 

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I would check your venting first and make sure you are in spec. 3pvp in a basement install already sounds under the EVL. I would contact your dealer and speak to him, that is your first step in any warranty claims.

Eric
 
x2 what Eric says, but the stove is still under warrantee, and it certainly does look like the dreaded gummy stove syndrome! While youre at it, have them check the burn pot, and if it has 5 holes, have them replace that while they are at the arduos job of fixing the DGS syndrome!
 
According to the Harman installation & operation manual I'm within spec for venting. This gummy stove scenario just happened in a period of 2 months. I had cleaned the fines area out the beginning of February and all was fine. It seems something recently happened to cause this. Just trying to figure out possible causes as well as my course of action.
 
Lousyweather said:
x2 what Eric says, but the stove is still under warrantee, and it certainly does look like the dreaded gummy stove syndrome! While youre at it, have them check the burn pot, and if it has 5 holes, have them replace that while they are at the arduos job of fixing the DGS syndrome!
Are the 5 holes the bottom row at the base of the burn pot?
 
I know that some folks are going to laugh at this set of questions, but here goes:

1. What other devices with fans/blowers are in the envelope the stove is in, that vent to the outside?

2. Is the air flapper on the stove stuck open?

3. Is there an OAK installed?

4. Does the hopper lid on that stove have a gasket seal on it and if so when did you last verify it formed a tight seal?
 
chweng said:
Lousyweather said:
x2 what Eric says, but the stove is still under warrantee, and it certainly does look like the dreaded gummy stove syndrome! While youre at it, have them check the burn pot, and if it has 5 holes, have them replace that while they are at the arduos job of fixing the DGS syndrome!
Are the 5 holes the bottom row at the base of the burn pot?

yea, just in front of the auger
 
SmokeyTheBear said:
I know that some folks are going to laugh at this set of questions, but here goes:

1. What other devices with fans/blowers are in the envelope the stove is in, that vent to the outside?

Only a clothes dryer in the laundry room adjacent to the finished basement room where stove is located. Total finished basement area 600 SF, with open stairwell to first floor.

2. Is the air flapper on the stove stuck open?

I checked it when I discovered the sticky feeder...flap moves freely and I can feel air coming from the OAK pipe.

3. Is there an OAK installed?

Yes

4. Does the hopper lid on that stove have a gasket seal on it and if so when did you last verify it formed a tight seal?

Gasket seal looks perfectly fine. There is/was (not running now) a change in the flame when I open the hopper lid to add pellets, so I assume it's creating a tight seal.


I stopped in at the dealer last night and left them with the sticky slider plate (pictures above). Supposed to get a call from the technician today. I assume he'll want to look at the stove...we'll see what happens.
 
I would do the dollar bill test on the hopper lid gasket.

If that gasket isn't sealing all the way around between that (air leak), the dryer (fairly large cfm air flow), and burning on low or idling (low cfm air flow from the combustion blower) it is possible that smoke would get in the hopper.

The traditional gummy stove was due to a partial vacuum being setup in the hopper due to the fairly closed feed system, the same thing can happen other ways.

If the hopper gasket is in fact sealing well then I'd go with gummy stove.
 
chweng said:
According to the Harman installation & operation manual I'm within spec for venting. This gummy stove scenario just happened in a period of 2 months. I had cleaned the fines area out the beginning of February and all was fine. It seems something recently happened to cause this. Just trying to figure out possible causes as well as my course of action.

A basement install with 3" pipe in specs of an EVL of 15? No way. List every part in your system and we will see.

I would still be calling the Dealer.
 
kinsman stoves said:
A basement install with 3" pipe in specs of an EVL of 15? No way. List every part in your system and we will see.

I would still be calling the Dealer.

Slow down there Eric, if I wanted to put my stove against another wall I could have done a straight out vent job, it depends upon exactly how much of his basement is below ground level where he has his stove.
 
sounds like classic gummy stove to me.
 
SmokeyTheBear said:
kinsman stoves said:
A basement install with 3" pipe in specs of an EVL of 15? No way. List every part in your system and we will see.

I would still be calling the Dealer.

Slow down there Eric, if I wanted to put my stove against another wall I could have done a straight out vent job, it depends upon exactly how much of his basement is below ground level where he has his stove.

x2 SmokeyTheBear.

Dealer called me and they're coming out next week to take the stove...according to them, Harman will cover this under warranty. I'll post any insightfull information on the outcome.
 
Harman has been covering DGS syndrome under warrantee.......we usually have to pick them up as well- very dirty job to do on-site. Time consuming as well. Glad to hear your dealer is doing the right thing!
 
Lousyweather said:
Harman has been covering DGS syndrome under warrantee.......we usually have to pick them up as well- very dirty job to do on-site. Time consuming as well. Glad to hear your dealer is doing the right thing!

The dealer or Harman didn't offer any explaination as to possible causes. Seems that this is a reoccuring issue with this stove and maybe other Harman models. In your experience have you found any common denominators that attribute to DGS syndrome? Obviously, I don't want to go through this again.
 
That looks like the ultra feeder. The shrunken feed mechanism that is put in the newer stoves. Does your stove already have the air cross-over tube installed? To my knowledge they are supposed to come with the air cross-over kit to prevent this issue. I have seen if the fines box cover is not on correctly and sealed tightly, it can cause the feeder to gum up a bit and cause creasote in the combustion chamber.
 
This is caused by the vaccum created by the exhaust blower actually creating negative pressure sufficient to pull smoke thru the feeder/hopper. It is easilly solved with the $11 (retail) crossover tube kit. Since your pics show a fines deflector (no longer used in the feeder cleanout area) u probabaly don't have a crossover tube. Get one, Install one. The Accentra is especially prone to this. Should be covered under warranty.
 
kinsman stoves said:
I would check your venting first and make sure you are in spec. 3pvp in a basement install already sounds under the EVL. I would contact your dealer and speak to him, that is your first step in any warranty claims.

Eric

wouldn't that be OVER the EVL?
 
summit said:
This is caused by the vaccum created by the exhaust blower actually creating negative pressure sufficient to pull smoke thru the feeder/hopper. It is easilly solved with the $11 (retail) crossover tube kit. Since your pics show a fines deflector (no longer used in the feeder cleanout area) u probabaly don't have a crossover tube. Get one, Install one. The Accentra is especially prone to this. Should be covered under warranty.

My hopper has the crossover tube with the orange muffler in the hopper. That was the first thing I checked when I discovered the gummy feeder box. The tube and muffler was fine...I was able to blow air thru it (as I mentioned in my initial post).

Just a clarification : According to the Accentra manual the UL Feeder (new style) has the fines deflector plate, which is what I have. The older style feeder (chain driven) does not have the deflector plate. You can view the current manual, which shows both stlyes of the feeder assembly. http://www.harmanstoves.com/customerCare/manuals.asp
 
smwilliamson said:
kinsman stoves said:
I would check your venting first and make sure you are in spec. 3pvp in a basement install already sounds under the EVL. I would contact your dealer and speak to him, that is your first step in any warranty claims.

Eric

wouldn't that be OVER the EVL?

Sorry I was not typing what I thought of.

Eric
 
And yes a basement install can be UNDER the EVL, depending on the height of the grade.

Eric
 
summit said:
This is caused by the vaccum created by the exhaust blower actually creating negative pressure sufficient to pull smoke thru the feeder/hopper. It is easilly solved with the $11 (retail) crossover tube kit. Since your pics show a fines deflector (no longer used in the feeder cleanout area) u probabaly don't have a crossover tube. Get one, Install one. The Accentra is especially prone to this. Should be covered under warranty.

The Accentra should have a cross over tube installed. Depending on the manufacturing date, the newer models do have the cross over tube in them. What is happening is air is being sucked out of the hopper. The cross over tube would aloow the air to be sucked out form another part of the feeder. I have seen this and have installed the cross over tubes before. This is the worst i've seen.
 
chweng said:
summit said:
This is caused by the vaccum created by the exhaust blower actually creating negative pressure sufficient to pull smoke thru the feeder/hopper. It is easilly solved with the $11 (retail) crossover tube kit. Since your pics show a fines deflector (no longer used in the feeder cleanout area) u probabaly don't have a crossover tube. Get one, Install one. The Accentra is especially prone to this. Should be covered under warranty.

My hopper has the crossover tube with the orange muffler in the hopper. That was the first thing I checked when I discovered the gummy feeder box. The tube and muffler was fine...I was able to blow air thru it (as I mentioned in my initial post).

Just a clarification : According to the Accentra manual the UL Feeder (new style) has the fines deflector plate, which is what I have. The older style feeder (chain driven) does not have the deflector plate. You can view the current manual, which shows both stlyes of the feeder assembly. http://www.harmanstoves.com/customerCare/manuals.asp

That orange muffler is only for your vaccum switch which controls the auger motor. The cross over tube mentioned here is hooked up to the feeder system located in the back of the stove.
 
msmith66 said:
chweng said:
summit said:
This is caused by the vaccum created by the exhaust blower actually creating negative pressure sufficient to pull smoke thru the feeder/hopper. It is easilly solved with the $11 (retail) crossover tube kit. Since your pics show a fines deflector (no longer used in the feeder cleanout area) u probabaly don't have a crossover tube. Get one, Install one. The Accentra is especially prone to this. Should be covered under warranty.

My hopper has the crossover tube with the orange muffler in the hopper. That was the first thing I checked when I discovered the gummy feeder box. The tube and muffler was fine...I was able to blow air thru it (as I mentioned in my initial post).

Just a clarification : According to the Accentra manual the UL Feeder (new style) has the fines deflector plate, which is what I have. The older style feeder (chain driven) does not have the deflector plate. You can view the current manual, which shows both stlyes of the feeder assembly. http://www.harmanstoves.com/customerCare/manuals.asp

That orange muffler is only for your vaccum switch which controls the auger motor. The cross over tube mentioned here is hooked up to the feeder system located in the back of the stove.

msmith66,

My mistake, I thought the crossover tube was the clear tube attached to the orange muffler in the hopper. The crossover tube your talking about is attached to the feeder box...is it visible? Simply, when I'm looking at the feeder box at the back of the stove should I be able to see this tube? If so, then I don't have one!!!
 
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