Remodel Surprise - Please Help

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Lweber40

New Member
Apr 5, 2011
6
Texas
We started one of those "easy" remodel jobs on our fireplace and have run into trouble and are looking for some advice. Our plan was to tear the outer brick off the fireplace and hearth and replace it with a more modern rock front. When we took off the brick, we discovered the fireplace doesn't look very safe. There is a metal angle iron bar at the top of the fireplace. It is just sitting on the bricks at each end. Then the 12 inches above that piece of iron there are bricks standing vertically that have mortar in between. There is nothing behind those bricks. They are not attached to the iron bar. Now above those vertical bricks is another iron bar that seems to be connected to the chimney and starts the firebrick. There is firebrick on all the sides of the firebox except where that row of vertical bricks are. I'm attaching a picture that I hope you can see.

Can you tell us how to rebuild this fireplace to make it safe before putting the new rock on it? is this something that my husband and I can do or do we need to hire a professional? Please advise.

Many thanks for any advice you can offer.

Jack and Lynn
 

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How old is the house?

My first impression is it's a really messed up fireplace construction, but it's just one picture. You may want to have a local certified sweep or fireplace mason have a look in person.
 
I think at sometime somebody "modified" the firebox, made it smaller. The iron bars are called lentils if I remember right, they are typical. So advice would be to decide what the end goal is. Fireplace, wood stove, insert, gas stove or fireplace, pellet stove. I think I would get a few "estimates" or consultations from reputable professional masons. To be truthful it doesn't look real bad but you should get real advice.
 
From what I can see in this one picture, it definitely looks like the top lintel was the original top of the firebox opening. Then as RNLA has said, someone modified it. It might work to your advantage....enable you to take out the remodel lintel and brick above it, to the original lintel, giving you more room to get your wood stove piped to a chimney liner. As has been said, more information is needed about what you intend to do. If its just to be a fireplace again, then that's a little different. Either way, if you have no experience with masonry work and fireplace construction, at the very least, you should probably seek the advise of a professional.
 
The house is 30 years old. We've lived here most of that time and can say that it was not modified in the last 25 years. Maybe they resized it in the beginning. We just want to make it the small fireplace so we can burn wood or gas logs. Don't plan on heating the house but we'd like it safe for sure. Thank you for your help.

Lynn and Jack
 
Is there a smoke shelf that curves up the damper and around into that area w/ the vertical bricks?

pen
 
RNLA said:
I think at sometime somebody "modified" the firebox, made it smaller. The iron bars are called lentils if I remember right, they are typical. So advice would be to decide what the end goal is. Fireplace, wood stove, insert, gas stove or fireplace, pellet stove. I think I would get a few "estimates" or consultations from reputable professional masons. To be truthful it doesn't look real bad but you should get real advice.
Click to expand...

Ah beans, while I agree the firebox opening looks like it's been modified, lentils are for soup, it's lintels.

Is this a multi-sided fireplace? It looks like daylight on the back left side.
 
I'd say it's time to call in a professional brick/stone mason with chimney building experience to bail you out of this. You've opened up a major can of worms here, and if you hope to be able to burn safely in that fireplace in the future, you're going to want it done properly. Rick
 
Looking at that bricking job would give a competent mason a heart attack. And who ever built the bottom built it the rest of the way to the sky.

+3 on getting a pro in there.
 
Dont mess with it. I'm willin to wager if you looked behind the scenes of a lot of brick faced fireplaces you'd see similar messes. But now that you have uncovered it, get a HIGHLY recommended mason and/or structural engineer in there before stoning over it. A lintel sitting on two bricks is kinda common. If you want some more safety opinions, do as suggested and take a few photos up inside.
 
looks like an accident waiting to happen
or a drunk mason built it
or a DIY project gone bad
have you ever burned in it??
 
Definitely look up the chimney very closely for WOOD 2x4's! Do you have any indoor gas heating devices that require venting?...if you do, look for holes in the side of the flue where those could be venting to. All of that is possible...don't ask me how I know. :-S Sometimes those pieces of angle iron were used to support the brick and mortar when "shoulders" were built when narrowing up the fireplace towards the smoke shelf. In your case my guess is the lower angle iron was installed after the fireplace was completed...probably trying to correct a smokey fireplace by lowering the lintel.

Ed
 
When looking up the chimney, its dark! No really, it's dark. Hard to see but between looking and feeling, I can tell you that it is firebox bricked as far as I can see and feel. I don't know what you call it but it is the same white brick that is lining the whole fireplace. It's seems very smooth and sturdy. What is a smoke shelf? What am I looking for?

PS - All of the brick that you see in the picture is the brick that was behind the fireplace. We took all the pretty brick down, except for the lower right hand corner you can still see the outside layer of brick which is holding up the lower lintel on the right side.

Everything looks in good shape except for the space that the vertical bricks are taking up.

I hope I've answered your questions. Let me know how to find the smoke shelf and I'll describe it too.

Thanks,
Lynn
 
cmonSTART said:
ironpony said:
looks like an accident waiting to happen
or a drunk mason built it
Click to expand...

You wouldn't believe how often I pull old beer cans and bottles out of chimney/fireplace structures. Must be a mason thing..[/quote
]

Yup, me too! Hear about that all the time. Those old italians must work better drunk.
Click to expand...
 
Oh yes, one more question I forgot to answer. It is only a one sided fp. It has a mirror leaning up against the back wall so you can see up the flue. You can see up there can't you? :)

Lynn
 
I would agree with those who've suggested that you get a competent mason to come take a look at it, but I'm not really alarmed by what you found. It does look like the lintel-to-hearth dimension was modified, either originally or afterwards. The vertical bricks look like they have mortar joints between them, and they probably are back daubed as well. With the facing on the fireplace that you removed, they would not have gone anywhere and were smoke-tight as long as the outside mortar joints weren't compromised. When you reface it with rock, it will be the same or better. The mason can fill those voids with mud quite easily.

I think we're all assuming that you'll be burning this as a fireplace, not as a stove location, are we right? If so, my main concern is that the lintel was lowered to improve drafting, but it might have been a fix that would not have lowered the throat of the flue. If you've used it in its previous state, and it drafted fine, nevermind. If you haven't, I'd get a professional to scope it out before you invest in rebuilding a fireplace that didn't draw to begin with.
 
you sure your house is only 30 years old? not just remodeled 30 years ago?
 
It won't cost you one penny to have a qualified mason come in and give you an estimate on fixing it up. While he's there, he will explain everything to you, along with a number of options. If it's OK, and he's honest, he may tell you that you don't need to do anything. You don't need to commit to anything when getting an estimate, and you'll learn a great deal along the way. Who knows, maybe he won't charge much to get you fixed up and you'll give him the work.
 
Thank you for all your help guys! I talked to a fireplace mason yesterday. He hasn't come out yet but from looking at the pictures and asking me a bunch of questions, he says that the fireplace is a complete masonry fireplace. It is on an outside wall of the house and is completely brick all on the outside including a brick chimney that is above the 3rd floor attic. He was very knowledgeable and we feel much safer already!

Again thank you for your help.

Take care and keep warm!

Lynn
 
Lweber40 said:
Thank you for all your help guys! I talked to a fireplace mason yesterday. He hasn't come out yet but from looking at the pictures and asking me a bunch of questions, he says that the fireplace is a complete masonry fireplace. It is on an outside wall of the house and is completely brick all on the outside including a brick chimney that is above the 3rd floor attic. He was very knowledgeable and we feel much safer already!

Again thank you for your help.

Take care and keep warm!

Lynn
Click to expand...
I'm glad you made some headway on this! I'm just looking at this brick thinking about how it looks (pictures can be deceiving) just like what I call "pumpkin brick" they are a softer brick and they GENERALLY aren't found in construction under say.... I dunno 120 years old. I'm sure this isn't the case, but it just peaked my interest when you said your house is 30 years old. Do you have this same brick on the outside of your house? there are some pretty good replications of these bricks that some people would use so a new house fit into an older neighborhood, so maybe that's why I'm seeing what I'm seeing.

Just curious.
 
I guess I can't spell (Lentils / Lintels) Thanks Begreen for the help I'm kinda special. I think it would be cool to take out the lower lintel and increase the height of the firebox and do an alcove style install but the OP said they didn't want to heat but rather just a gas log or open fireplace. I can't say it would not get hot, but just not what the output would be with a stove.
 
Well I thought it was the same brick until your comments made me look closer. The filler brick in the center of the photo certainly looks to be a different color that what's on the outside of our house. You can see the brick that's on the outside of our house by looking at he lower right side of the picture. It's more brownish gray than the orange brick used to fill in behind the fireplace top layer.

Thanks again.
 
cmonSTART said:
ironpony said:
looks like an accident waiting to happen
or a drunk mason built it
Click to expand...

You wouldn't believe how often I pull old beer cans and bottles out of chimney/fireplace structures. Must be a mason thing..
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to have a look behind my brick- think I might find a hidden Guinness brewery!
 
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