Summit and a flue damper.

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summit said:
Gimme a PM I'll give ya my # and I'll talk U thru gettin a fire goin good in that thing.
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As this has been an ongoing issue with the OP for the past yr -- rediscussed over numerous, similar threads. I think it will be difficult for the OP to accept the higher flue temps required for getting a "fire goin good in that thing". And/or installing a stack conforming to the minimum config. for the unit.
 
madison said:
summit said:
Gimme a PM I'll give ya my # and I'll talk U thru gettin a fire goin good in that thing.
Click to expand...

As this has been an ongoing issue with the OP for the past yr -- rediscussed over numerous, similar threads. I think it will be difficult for the OP to accept the higher flue temps required for getting a "fire goin good in that thing". And/or installing a stack conforming to the minimum config. for the unit.
Click to expand...
I have been letting the flue temps ride for the last several months, I guess you missed some of my later posts. The flue temps and stove top temps both tend to die out. Plus why do you think I will not install a new chimney, since this is my only source of heat I can not do it during the heating season.
 
oldspark said:
certified106 said:
I am no expert however as an engineer I would put my money on it being a velocity problem with a 71/4" pipe the flue gasses are going to slow down and create less draft. It also seems that a masonry chimney will lend itself to a cooler flu with more sluggish draft. Have you considered putting a 6" liner down the chimney as that seems like it would most likely put your problems to rest.
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The chimney is inside except for the top six feet and it was insulated when new but do not think its there any more, the stove works great with quick starts and no smoke back into the romm its just the temps are low on the top end, the chimney needs some work so am trying to decide how I want to fix it. If I put a liner in it I will still have the 2-90's in it but not sure I want to tear out the masonary block but I might then I will have about 18 ft of 6 inch straight up pipe.
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good, forget about the flue temps if at all possible

4/17/2010 -- https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/618938/ summing your post ... The chimney is straight up 18 ft of 7 1/2 inch clay lined block with insulation around it and it is in side of house" ....

So is the current stack setup different from last yr? Now it has two 90's?
 
Madison I put the stove in April a year ago, I had no idea how it was going to burn in the winter with bigger loads of wood, my first problems were solved with advice from this forum and then it was summer, I have no idea why you like busting my balls.
 
madison said:
oldspark said:
certified106 said:
I am no expert however as an engineer I would put my money on it being a velocity problem with a 71/4" pipe the flue gasses are going to slow down and create less draft. It also seems that a masonry chimney will lend itself to a cooler flu with more sluggish draft. Have you considered putting a 6" liner down the chimney as that seems like it would most likely put your problems to rest.
Click to expand...
The chimney is inside except for the top six feet and it was insulated when new but do not think its there any more, the stove works great with quick starts and no smoke back into the romm its just the temps are low on the top end, the chimney needs some work so am trying to decide how I want to fix it. If I put a liner in it I will still have the 2-90's in it but not sure I want to tear out the masonary block but I might then I will have about 18 ft of 6 inch straight up pipe.
Click to expand...

good, forget about the flue temps if at all possible

4/17/2010 -- https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/618938/ summing your post ... The chimney is straight up 18 ft of 7 1/2 inch clay lined block with insulation around it and it is in side of house" ....

So is the current stack setup different from last yr? Now it has two 90's?
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If you must know I screwed up when I described the chimney, one ninety is in the stove pipe and the other is the thimble, now if you have any other problems with me send me a PM.
 
Seriously, I was not trying to "bust your balls". I have over the past yr attempted to help, but to do so, it helps to have accurate and consistent information.

When I read your most recent description of your stack, I noticed that it had changed. thus the question (misinterpreted as ball busting) regarding what I thought was the new stack description. As it most certainly pertains to your problem.

If you haven't already, I ditto the suggestion to remove the flue damper and when time permits, and then contemplate improving the stack.
 
madison said:
Seriously, I was not trying to "bust your balls". I have over the past yr attempted to help, but to do so, it helps to have accurate and consistent information.

When I read your most recent description of your stack, I noticed that it had changed. thus the question (misinterpreted as ball busting) regarding what I thought was the new stack description. As it most certainly pertains to your problem.

If you haven't already, I ditto the suggestion to remove the flue damper and when time permits, and then contemplate improving the stack.
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Sorry about that did not mean to imply something that was not true, the damper actually helped a tad bit so that did not contribute to the problem, I just put it in a few weeks ago and have not had any problems with it, the stove is a tad hotter using it but not enough to make a big difference.
 
Oldspark I think the issue is that you come off as real negative towards the stove when in reality, the stove is a great design yet your set up is less than ideal. That coupled with the fact that you had great heat from your old wood burner that you have yet to recreate with this one. You will get there, just need some adjustment is all.
 
I never bad mouthed the stove, I questioned the new stoves in general and still do, hard for many of you to understand how much heat the old stove put out I guess, oh well I am happy for all the things I learned here but if I had known then what I know now the old stove would still be in use.
 
oldspark said:
I never bad mouthed the stove, I questioned the new stoves in general and still do, hard for many of you to understand how much heat the old stove put out I guess, oh well I am happy for all the things I learned here but if I had known then what I know now the old stove would still be in use.
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My point is you don't know what your stove can do because of your setup. There is a HUGE difference between a 600 degree stove top and a 750 degree stove top. You need that lined chimney if you want the top end my friend! The stove demands it!

Here are some steps to this progression that I think fit well:

* 1. Denial.
* 2. Anger.
* 3. Bargaining.
* 4. Depression.
* 5. Acceptance.

I'd say right now you are some where in between the bargaining and depression stage. Your purchase and installation of the pipe damper was the bargaining step, and you are now showing slight signs of depression in that the old school damper didn't put the manners to your school of secondary burn tubes stove; additionally you created this thread.

I'll buy you a beer once you hit step five and put that insulated liner in. :) I wish you were close enough that I could come over and help because I want to see what this stove can really do as I am considering a summit for my cabin!

pen
 
LOL, I created this post because a member (cant remember his name) suggested the damper and said to post the results so I did. I've know for a long time (and posted as such) I had to do something with the chimney, even you suggested the damper a while back. I guess maybe I post too much and will try and restrain my self in the future. Not going to put the liner in as I will still have the two 90's so the block chimney has to come out I guess.
 
oldspark said:
LOL, I created this post because a member (cant remember his name) suggested the damper and said to post the results so I did. I've know for a long time (and posted as such) I had to do something with the chimney, even you suggested the damper a while back. I guess maybe I post too much and will try and restrain my self in the future. Not going to put the liner in as I will still have the two 90's so the block chimney has to come out I guess.
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Damn I'm good, you are definatly entering depression w/ this talk of posting too much! ;-P

That choice is yours as you enter the acceptance phase! Going full class A straight up would be the best. I opted to line my chimney and kept 2, 90's for best appearance and I still had a huge difference. You could reduce the effects of one of the 90's by using 2, 45's.

Naw, posting too much has nothing to do with anything. I just want to see you be happy with your stove as I really think it is a good unit.

pen
 
If it puts your mind at ease, I have 2 x 90 deg and then up 20', works well for me.
 
SKIN052 said:
If it puts your mind at ease, I have 2 x 90 deg and then up 20', works well for me.
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Your stove has no problem hitting 700 to 750 in a short period of time? Seems like the chimney thing is not an exact science, I do not have room for a insulated 6 inch liner though.
 
No issues hear reaching those temps in a short amount of time.
 
I understand all this and have known for a while my chimney must be the problem, but after heating the house for 30 years with the old chimney it was hard for me to accept the draft was not good enough, (denial for my buddy Pen :lol: ) so I will drop another couple grand in a problem I did not have in the begining.
Thanks for the link by the way, still learning here.
 
Could it just be the difference between your old radiant stove verses the Summits convective heat? The problem with the double jacketed stoves is lack of radiant heat, seems like they built them this way for close clearances and forgot about radiant heat output?
 
Todd said:
Could it just be the difference between your old radiant stove verses the Summits convective heat? The problem with the double jacketed stoves is lack of radiant heat, seems like they built them this way for close clearances and forgot about radiant heat output?
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As many have said the difference in heat between 600 and 700 to 750 is a big jump, I think then I will be getting the heat I want and need to be happy with the stove. I think I can live with the convective heat if I could get the stove top temp up there higher, I did heat the house all last winter in North West Iowa with a stove that I could not get up much past 550 to 600 stove top.
 
Sparky indeed you are correct, the "big jump" is an exponential increase in heat energy with temperature.
///////////////////////

Stefan’s Law (1879): the total power P radiated from one square meter of black surface at temperature T goes as the fourth power of the absolute temperature.

///////////////////////////////////////////

But this is complicated by energy power being "converted" to convective and radiant heat.

The links below should put you right to sleep, hopefully in front of a warm wood stove.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan–Boltzmann_law
http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/252/black_body_radiation.html
 
I'm coming in on this one a little late, but I had a similar frustrating experience when I couldn't get any heat out of a Hearthstone Mansfield for two seasons. I finally got rid of it and IMO upgraded to a PE Summit Classic. During my switch I purchased a moisture meter to check my firewood. My wood was between 25% and 30% moisture. Obviously way too wet, but it was better than burning oil. Despite the moisture content I had to be careful not to overburn the summit. I was easily getting temps 800+ if I did not cut back the primary, and the stove will cruise along at 650f all day long when it's shut down. Now thats it's warmer I adjust that by burning less wood. That allows me to keep it around 400. One thing BeGreen pointed out to me when I first wrote about my new stove was to take readings from the stove surface not the trivet. A stove thermometer fits directly under the trivet. Prior to moving the thermometer under the trivet I was seeing 650 max. When I moved it to the surface the temp moved up to the 700-800 range. You've probably already done that, but I cant see how the steel top doesn't get above 600 with a full load of nice burning wood.

Best of luck to you
 
MF1529 said:
I'm coming in on this one a little late, but I had a similar frustrating experience when I couldn't get any heat out of a Hearthstone Mansfield for two seasons. I finally got rid of it and IMO upgraded to a PE Summit Classic. During my switch I purchased a moisture meter to check my firewood. My wood was between 25% and 30% moisture. Obviously way too wet, but it was better than burning oil. Despite the moisture content I had to be careful not to overburn the summit. I was easily getting temps 800+ if I did not cut back the primary, and the stove will cruise along at 650f all day long when it's shut down. Now thats it's warmer I adjust that by burning less wood. That allows me to keep it around 400. One thing BeGreen pointed out to me when I first wrote about my new stove was to take readings from the stove surface not the trivet. A stove thermometer fits directly under the trivet. Prior to moving the thermometer under the trivet I was seeing 650 max. When I moved it to the surface the temp moved up to the 700-800 range. You've probably already done that, but I cant see how the steel top doesn't get above 600 with a full load of nice burning wood.

Best of luck to you
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I have a history of this problem dating back a year ago, the only thing my stove does not do is get a high stove top measured on top not on trivet, all of the help from this forum taught me how and where to get the readings. All my wood is below 20% moisture so about the only thing left is the chimney which works well except for the lack of temps over 550 to 600, it just runs out of gas. Its too bad because other wise it works good with no black glass and I can turn it all the way down and get long burns with nice secondaries, when it is very cold it struggles to keep the house at 70. If for some strange reason this doen not fix it I am screwed as my old stove takes a larger flue but I think this has to be it. Thanks for wishing me luck as I need all I can get.
 
MF1529 said:
but I cant see how the steel top doesn't get above 600 with a full load of nice burning wood.
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That is a good point and still bugs the hell out of me.
 
oldspark said:
MF1529 said:
but I cant see how the steel top doesn't get above 600 with a full load of nice burning wood.
Click to expand...
That is a good point and still bugs the hell out of me.
Click to expand...

Me too!! But I'll bet a case of beer that I know the reason ;)

pen
 
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