Planning to Split a Large Cottonwood

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JV_Thimble

JV_Thimble

Feeling the Heat
Sep 28, 2010
317
South-Central MI
Have my local arborist coming out to fell a large cottonwood for me (118" circumference, or about 40" DBH) sometime next week. Not asking him to limb it or anything else to keep things reasonable. Main reason I'm taking it down is that it's keeping a hickory and some conifers in my yard from growing properly. Plus, I hate cottonwoods, view this as managing the forest a bit, and my wife loves all trees. So, best bet is to make the most of it and process it into firewood. But this one is larger than I've ever dealt with before. Generally, I'm thinking of renting a splitter, and I can cut up a lot of it with my chainsaw. But it's also rather clear to me that I may need a new chainsaw, some way to roll a log that size, etc. Not looking to get too crazy and buy a big tractor or anything, but looking for some ideas on how to do this safely and relatively inexpensively. Not afraid of manual labor, but don't want to kill my back, either.

Worst case, I can do whatever I need by myself, and when I'm down to the large trunk, have a neighbor out with his monster tractor to assist. Nothing against that if I need, but if there's a way to do it on my own, I'd like to try.

Thanks in advance,

John
 
Good luck.
Cotton woods that big are heavy & many times hallow.
Arborist a good idea if crushable things are in range.
I too, hate cottonwoods. crap on you 5 times every year. 6 if you count all the dead branches the drop.
 
bogydave said:
Good luck.
Cotton woods that big are heavy & many times hallow.
Arborist a good idea if crushable things are in range.
I too, hate cottonwoods. crap on you 5 times every year. 6 if you count all the dead branches the drop.
Click to expand...
Wood in low quality, but it will burn when dried.
Definitely a splitter for rounds that big.
 
This one is surprisingly healthy, that's part of the problem. Arborist was surprised, said that cottonwoods are usually a challenge - half rotted inside. We'll see.
 
My buddy ended up with a bunch of cottonwood via a tree service.

What he and I both noticed is that if you split the rounds once and then leave them sit for about 2 weeks is they dry up considerably and are actually easier to move and split. Just an observation.

Keep your splits huge. when that stuff drys out its really light and burns fast.
 
Cutting the large cottonwood is the challenge. You need a long bar. Splitting is not bad. They will dry fast even though they may have moisture running right out at each cut. As for burning, cottonwood burns hot and rather quickly. It can be great to use in spring and fall. Be prepared though when you cut it because it can be a bit smelly and, of course, that will get on your clothing so you'll carry that smell with you. lol

Out in our western states, some have only cottonwoods to burn and they get along just fine. It is the same case as with burning pine. Some are afraid to do it but others burn it just fine. The tree is on your place so you may as well get the benefit of heat from it.
 
I wouldn't get too hung up on needing a splitter. Cottonwood isn't bad to split and moving rounds that size into position will be challenging. Just work from the outside in...there is no glory in splitting it down the middle.

It would probably be worth your while to have the arborist buck the trunk for you. Not sure how you are outfitted in terms of a saw, but with something that big if you pinch your bar or have to roll the trunk to get all the way thru, that could be big trouble.

Edit...just re-read your signature...I would think real hard on getting the trunk bucked. Nothing against the wild thing, but it may not be long enough for a trunk that big.
 
I would love to have a pile of big rounds to split by hand. I find it enjoyable, particularly if you can do a few per day. Cottonwood shouldn't be hard to split once it is bucked to length. I'd consider paying the arborist to cut the larger wood into stove-length pieces and just leave them where they are (should save him time and you money). I'd split them once or twice, then they could be easily moved to the woodpile for final splitting.
 
Backwoods Savage said:
Cutting the large cottonwood is the challenge. You need a long bar. Splitting is not bad. They will dry fast even though they may have moisture running right out at each cut. As for burning, cottonwood burns hot and rather quickly. It can be great to use in spring and fall. Be prepared though when you cut it because it can be a bit smelly and, of course, that will get on your clothing so you'll carry that smell with you. lol

Out in our western states, some have only cottonwoods to burn and they get along just fine. It is the same case as with burning pine. Some are afraid to do it but others burn it just fine. The tree is on your place so you may as well get the benefit of heat from it.
Click to expand...

How long a bar? Nothing against turning this into an opportunity to get a new saw, if I can do this reasonably safely. If I'm better off having the arborist buck it, that's fine, too. But I'd like to try if it seems within reason...

Thanks,

John
 
40" tree = 20" bar, but if you're looking for a new saw you'll probably want to base it on reasonable use and not the smallest or largest you'll need. I'd recommend a 60 cc+ saw, if you're serious about buying one. The pull-on will keep you going on smaller stuff, but if you need a longer bar you need the HP to run it too. You can use a chain and your truck to roll it if necessary. Personally, I'd go with a saw that will pull a 24" bar on rare occasions, and a 20" for everyday. Maybe a 359? I really like my combo, 372 and a 24" bar, it seems to be a good match for medium to large wood and I don't mind swinging it for limbing or buckin small stuff.
 
How long a bar? For that tree a 24" would do great. Unless you think you'll see monsters like this regularly though, I'd stick with a 20". You'll likely not reach the center of the very largest rounds with the 20 (actual reach ussually around 19"), but it's a usefull size for firewood.
 
John, looks like you have your answer on the length of the bar. Just so you know, I've felled a 34" diameter tree with a 16" bar. Just got done cutting up an oak that was 30". No problem.

I've had a couple trees I purposely cut high because I knew I didn't have enough blade. Later I cut the stump down and used a sledge hammer to beat the block until it broke off the part I could not reach with the saw. But then, I've cut some trees with a 36" bar and found the bar just a tad short too but that was many moon ago.
 
Thanks to everyone for all the ideas. I'll try and post how it goes (although I must admit I owe some info on my new stove as it is...)
 
moosetrek said:
40" tree = 20" bar, but if you're looking for a new saw you'll probably want to base it on reasonable use and not the smallest or largest you'll need. I'd recommend a 60 cc+ saw, if you're serious about buying one. The pull-on will keep you going on smaller stuff, but if you need a longer bar you need the HP to run it too. You can use a chain and your truck to roll it if necessary. Personally, I'd go with a saw that will pull a 24" bar on rare occasions, and a 20" for everyday. Maybe a 359? I really like my combo, 372 and a 24" bar, it seems to be a good match for medium to large wood and I don't mind swinging it for limbing or buckin small stuff.
Click to expand...

Dumb question on this - I've got the truck, but how to roll a log with a truck and a chain (if necessary)? If you wrap a chain around a log, don't you just end up dragging it?

And, can you guys tell I grew up in the city... ☺
 
JV_Thimble said:
moosetrek said:
40" tree = 20" bar, but if you're looking for a new saw you'll probably want to base it on reasonable use and not the smallest or largest you'll need. I'd recommend a 60 cc+ saw, if you're serious about buying one. The pull-on will keep you going on smaller stuff, but if you need a longer bar you need the HP to run it too. You can use a chain and your truck to roll it if necessary. Personally, I'd go with a saw that will pull a 24" bar on rare occasions, and a 20" for everyday. Maybe a 359? I really like my combo, 372 and a 24" bar, it seems to be a good match for medium to large wood and I don't mind swinging it for limbing or buckin small stuff.
Click to expand...

Dumb question on this - I've got the truck, but how to roll a log with a truck and a chain (if necessary)? If you wrap a chain around a log, don't you just end up dragging it?

And, can you guys tell I grew up in the city... ☺
Click to expand...
I would think to wrap the chain around the center of the trunk a few times. Finally secure the chain back to itself on the last wrap. When you start pulling the chain will "un-roll" and should roll the log over at the same time. Loggers will wrap a choker several times around the end of a log to help "spin" it through tangles, etc.,.

Ed
 
JV_Thimble said:
moosetrek said:
40" tree = 20" bar, but if you're looking for a new saw you'll probably want to base it on reasonable use and not the smallest or largest you'll need. I'd recommend a 60 cc+ saw, if you're serious about buying one. The pull-on will keep you going on smaller stuff, but if you need a longer bar you need the HP to run it too. You can use a chain and your truck to roll it if necessary. Personally, I'd go with a saw that will pull a 24" bar on rare occasions, and a 20" for everyday. Maybe a 359? I really like my combo, 372 and a 24" bar, it seems to be a good match for medium to large wood and I don't mind swinging it for limbing or buckin small stuff.
Click to expand...

Dumb question on this - I've got the truck, but how to roll a log with a truck and a chain (if necessary)? If you wrap a chain around a log, don't you just end up dragging it?

And, can you guys tell I grew up in the city... ☺
Click to expand...

Excellent question and I hope to give you an excellent answer.

Way back in dinosaur days, I learned that when you get something stuck, like a few times I got stuck pulling a disc through a muddy spot that I should have stayed in. You can just pull it straight through.....or you can pull it out on an angle. Which is better? It does not take long to find out.

Now imagine a log that is big and you need to move it. Never, never hook on straight with the log and try to pull it as that takes too much power and the danged log will probably dig up sod causing to pull even harder. There is a simple trick you can use though.

When pulling a log I like to use a slip hook on one end and a grab hook on the other. I use the slip hook on the log end. Back the truck up to the log at a 45 or 90 degree angle to the log. From the truck side of the log you need to get the slip hook under the log and just far enough on the far side so that you can get the chain hooked into it. Then the chain that you've put through the slip hook gets drawn back across the top of the log and hooked onto the truck bumper. Take most of the slack from the chain. Now get into the truck and move it forward.

What happens is that you will cause the log to roll and also swing around until it is straight with the truck. For what you are doing that is enough but if you were going to skid that log, you'd simply just keep on going. You've got the log moving very easily and now it won't take so much power to start pulling it out from where it is.

If the directions are not clear here, I'll try to describe it differently or else take a picture. I hope this helps.
 
Thanks, Dennis

I think that if I get stuck, I will be asking for pictures. But ok for now.

Thanks,

John
 
I had to do it many times with large round bales, a large ratchet strap tightened around the trunk, free end on the back side of the trunk - then pull on the free end with the truck. I used to roll the bales by pushing, but a tree might not work out so well...!
 
moosetrek said:
40" tree = 20" bar, but if you're looking for a new saw you'll probably want to base it on reasonable use and not the smallest or largest you'll need.
Click to expand...

That's crazy advice.

First of all 40" DBH probably means you want at least a 24" bar for the bottom two rounds. More would probably be better.

Second, he's on an Internet forum looking for an excuse to get a bigger saw. Sure he could go rent a Makita 6400 with 20" bar from Home Depot (or hopefully something a little bigger from a local power equipment store) for a weekend and get the job done. But where's the fun in that? You need to advise him the minimum to get the job done is a Husqvarna 390xp or Stihl 660 with at least a 32" bar so he can show the post to his wife and justify the purchase. ;-) ;-)
 
KarlP said:
moosetrek said:
40" tree = 20" bar, but if you're looking for a new saw you'll probably want to base it on reasonable use and not the smallest or largest you'll need.
Click to expand...

That's crazy advice.

First of all 40" DBH probably means you want at least a 24" bar for the bottom two rounds. More would probably be better.

Second, he's on an Internet forum looking for an excuse to get a bigger saw. Sure he could go rent a Makita 6400 with 20" bar from Home Depot (or hopefully something a little bigger from a local power equipment store) for a weekend and get the job done. But where's the fun in that? You need to advise him the minimum to get the job done is a Husqvarna 390xp or Stihl 660 with at least a 32" bar so he can show the post to his wife and justify the purchase. ;-) ;-)
Click to expand...

I like the thinking, and may use this to justify the purchase, but my wife is just going to give me a look. To cut down a tree she wants to keep and use it as justification to buy a saw to cut up the wood, or worse, more trees...

I also like the idea of a saw with a 20" bar and the HP to go to 24. Then only get the bigger bar if needed. Lord knows, my neighbor may show up with a bigger one - he likes to come looking when I'm up to something like this. And years ago, he offered to help me cut this one down - he hates cottonwoods as well. From a bit of reading here, though, I'm going the safer route with something this big. It looks straightforward, but I'm sure that's how a lot of problems start...
 
Crud! Did I say 20" bar? I forgor to apply the compensation factor. When cutting a 40" round, you need at least half again as much bar as the radius of the tree. Therefore, a 40" round has a radius of 20". Aplly the factor and you get a 30" bar requirement. Since there's no way a 359 will pull a 30" bar, my 372 would struggle with the 32" bar it came with when buried in hardwood or wet cottonwood, I recommend at LEAST a 385XP. And cottonwood expands at a rate of 2" per day, so you'd better go - go now - and get that saw. Otherwise, you'll be needing a 120cc saw. This way your wife will be SO impressed that, because your quick thinking you saved several hundred $, your "bar" may get some extra use... :)
 
JV_Thimble said:
KarlP said:
moosetrek said:
40" tree = 20" bar, but if you're looking for a new saw you'll probably want to base it on reasonable use and not the smallest or largest you'll need.
Click to expand...

That's crazy advice.

First of all 40" DBH probably means you want at least a 24" bar for the bottom two rounds. More would probably be better.

Second, he's on an Internet forum looking for an excuse to get a bigger saw. Sure he could go rent a Makita 6400 with 20" bar from Home Depot (or hopefully something a little bigger from a local power equipment store) for a weekend and get the job done. But where's the fun in that? You need to advise him the minimum to get the job done is a Husqvarna 390xp or Stihl 660 with at least a 32" bar so he can show the post to his wife and justify the purchase. ;-) ;-)
Click to expand...

I like the thinking, and may use this to justify the purchase, but my wife is just going to give me a look. To cut down a tree she wants to keep and use it as justification to buy a saw to cut up the wood, or worse, more trees...

I also like the idea of a saw with a 20" bar and the HP to go to 24. Then only get the bigger bar if needed. Lord knows, my neighbor may show up with a bigger one - he likes to come looking when I'm up to something like this. And years ago, he offered to help me cut this one down - he hates cottonwoods as well. From a bit of reading here, though, I'm going the safer route with something this big. It looks straightforward, but I'm sure that's how a lot of problems start...
Click to expand...


Tell the wife 390/660 is just crazy talk! 460 ported and slam the head with a muff job (that one she will understand) you can keep the rpm's much higher through a wide range of wood in turn meens more time with her....Smart money....Teach you later on the finner points of an 880!
 
FYI, looks like this will end with the arborist removing 3-4 high limbs rather than the whole tree. I would've cut it down, but my wife wants to keep the tree. Removing the limbs will give several years growth to the trees I'm trying to encourage along. Hoping I can cut this one down in 4-5 years...
 
JV_Thimble said:
Backwoods Savage said:
Cutting the large cottonwood is the challenge. You need a long bar. Splitting is not bad. They will dry fast even though they may have moisture running right out at each cut. As for burning, cottonwood burns hot and rather quickly. It can be great to use in spring and fall. Be prepared though when you cut it because it can be a bit smelly and, of course, that will get on your clothing so you'll carry that smell with you. lol

Out in our western states, some have only cottonwoods to burn and they get along just fine. It is the same case as with burning pine. Some are afraid to do it but others burn it just fine. The tree is on your place so you may as well get the benefit of heat from it.
Click to expand...

How long a bar? Nothing against turning this into an opportunity to get a new saw, if I can do this reasonably safely. If I'm better off having the arborist buck it, that's fine, too. But I'd like to try if it seems within reason...

Thanks,

Hey John, where in MI.? I might consider a trip with my saws just for fun. Yes I can take that tree apart, & no I don't want the wood.
Adam AKA amateur cutter
Click to expand...
 
amateur cutter said:
JV_Thimble said:
Backwoods Savage said:
Cutting the large cottonwood is the challenge. You need a long bar. Splitting is not bad. They will dry fast even though they may have moisture running right out at each cut. As for burning, cottonwood burns hot and rather quickly. It can be great to use in spring and fall. Be prepared though when you cut it because it can be a bit smelly and, of course, that will get on your clothing so you'll carry that smell with you. lol

Out in our western states, some have only cottonwoods to burn and they get along just fine. It is the same case as with burning pine. Some are afraid to do it but others burn it just fine. The tree is on your place so you may as well get the benefit of heat from it.
Click to expand...

How long a bar? Nothing against turning this into an opportunity to get a new saw, if I can do this reasonably safely. If I'm better off having the arborist buck it, that's fine, too. But I'd like to try if it seems within reason...

Thanks,

Hey John, where in MI.? I might consider a trip with my saws just for fun. Yes I can take that tree apart, & no I don't want the wood.
Adam AKA amateur cutter
Click to expand...

This battle's all but over, but thanks for the offer.

Costs $100 more to remove a few limbs than to fell the beast. I do understand why, but I'd rather have the firewood...
Click to expand...
 
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