Hearthstone Clydesdale Install Questions and Help

I had to pull a permit for my insert install. If your town requires it, you should do it for insurance reasons.

[quote author="bainbridgematt" date="1303854222"]First of all, thank you to all of you that have helped me already in figuring out the best stove for my current fireplace. I've finally think I've decided on the Hearthstone Clydesdale. I've got a ton of install questions for you all though. I saw that someone else just recently installed one on here so I am using that as a resource, but also had some of my own questions that I hope you guys can answer for me.

1) My hearth is too shallow for any insert. It's right at 16" which I know needs to be at least 18". What is the best way to extend the hearth. I know there are lots of options. I've thought about just building the hearth out another 8" or so. wouldn't be too terrible to do.

1A: I would extend the hearth the required distance. Since it seems that you don't know how your hearth extension is constructed, you might just decide to sacrifice the whole thing and start over by building a new hearth extension. It depends on how much effort and money you want to put into this project. In any case, constructing a new hearth extension is not rocket science.

2) Is there a way to determine the current R value of the hearth? I have no idea what the previous owners of the house did and i want to make sure I don't start the house on fire. I know that that used a thing marble tile for the overlay, but I have no idea what went below. I can always pop a front tile off and look I guess, but I was hoping there as an easier way

2A: There is no free lunch here. We used to call the solution to your problem "destructive testing." To really know what you've got, you have got to take it apart. The universal problem that you face, is that there is no uniform solutions to building a hearth extension. Good builders might take the time to figure out exactly what is needed, build it and in doing so meet all the code requirements. A typical builder (no offense intended to you typical builders out there) might just knock something together and call it good.

I recently attended a training session put on by "Simpson Strong-Tie." They make metal connectors to help hold structures together during high winds and earthquakes. They showed many examples of poor home construction done by "typical" builders and how their products can help solve those problems. My point is this: You can't assume your builder did everything right unless you watched him do it.

3) Is it better to have the hearth inserted extended into the room or push it all the way back in the box. The Clydesdale has the option for either. Someone mentioned something about better convection with it extended, but is it worth giving up extra space on the floor for? I can go with either option in my fireplace.

3A: You won't be giving much floor space if you make your new hearth extension long enough to extend the Clydesdale all the way out. Let me rephrase that. I have a Clydesdale in it's "full out" position. I had to increase the heart extension by four inches so that I had the necessary 18 inches clearance. To me this was no big deal. I'm glad that I did it even though I had to buy a new saw to cut the hardwood floor to make the new hearth extension. You probably won't get much additional radiation/convection with the unit in it's full out position. It's just that my wife and I liked the look and feel of the unit in its full out position. Anyway, what's a DIY project if a guy can't buy a new power tool, I ask you?

4) Should I wire an electrical box into the fireplace box? I've heard some mixed things about it on here and just wondering if anyone has experience doing that with this insert (I believe the other Clydesdale install on here did that, but I couldn't follow all the details).

4A: You can run the factory cord to an existing electrical outlet, if your outlet is nearby. The cord is fairly long and can be mounted either left or right. If you have done electrical work in the past, you could install a new outlet nearby yourself. Some jurisdictions do not allow DIY electrical installs. However, I do not recommend placing the outlet in the "fireplace" box. I'm not sure what you mean by this. It's my humble opinion that the box should be installed near the front of the stove and down low, to its left or right. Such installs can be recessed into walls so that they are very inconspicuous.

I ran a new surface outlet box using "Wiremold." This is code material approved (in my area) for running surface wiring inside a house. it's much nicer looking than say, metal conduit, which would be perfectly legal.

5) Can i do this install myself or should I leave it to a pro? I am pretty capable and fixing things and what not, but I am wondering what you guys think in general.

5A: This depends on how much time, energy, and money you have to do it right. I think the average person can do it right if they take time to learn what is the right way and is willing to spend the money to do it right. That's what this forum is all about. To learn from those who have gone before. I'm no rocket scientist, but I installed my Clydesdale with the help of a) three Sumo wrestler friends, and b) a very good welder to deal with my Superior Heatform Fireplace.

6) Anyone have to pull a permit for an insert install? My building department is telling me I need to, but I don't know if they realize I am putting it into an existing fireplace.

6: This is a no brainer. If your jurisdiction requires a permit, which is most likely, get one. It does not matter that you are installing the insert into an existing fireplace. Also it is more than likely that you will need to run a new insulated SS flex liner up through your existing fireplace flue liner.

Good luck with your project. You can do it...

Repeat step 7...a lot

As far as blocking off the flue, you can find a ton of info on this forum, for and against block off plates. When we install them (locally only) we seal the the damper around the pipe with rock wool. We also pack rock wool around the time of the liner under the top plate.

I always suggest with the Clydesdale having as much sticking out of the fireplace as you can.

Doing your own install isnt so bad. Just a heavy fricken insert. You can take the bricks out of it (they are soapstone) and save about 80lb.

Also, if your not gonna be saving a ton of money, like at least $500 , its always good to shop local if you can.

bainbridgematt said:

Volemister,
Thanks so much for all your help! That is great information.

I figure my course of action right now is the following.....

1) Start looking for a good deal on the stove (Franks might have one that would work, but it is 350 miles away)
2) Pop a tile off the front of the hearth and take a look at what is under it. Could be that just covered an old brick fireplace with the tile. The house was built in 1955 so no way is that tile around the fireplace original.
3) Decide on a course of action for the the hearth. Most likely building it out far enough to but the insert in either extended or flush.
4) Build the hearth extension.
5) Get a permit for install of the fireplace insert
6) Install the thing
7) Drink lots of beer.

I will see how close my closest outlet is to the fireplace. May have to run a new outlet. Shouldn't be too tough to do, but may require some drywall work which I hate doing. I'll have to come up with a some what creative way to hide the cord as I am sure it will drive my fiancée crazy.

I know I will have to run a flue liner. That should be pretty straight forward right? Get the pulling tool and pull the thing through the flue.

Matt: You can view videos showing the liner install at http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/videos/

How hard it will be to install your new liner will depend on a) how much space you have in your existing tera cotta flue to install your new 6 inch insulated SS flex liner, b) how long your new SS Flex liner is, c) the pitch and height of your roof. I was working with a 13 inch by 13 inch rectangular terra cotta flue (easy), on a 4/12 pitch (easy) roof, with a short (about 18 feet) pipe run. So getting the liner down the flue was not difficult. Others have had a hard time due to tight fits, steep roofs, long runs.

By all means insulate the new SS Flex liner. By all means install a metal block off plate. There are many examples on this forum from those who have installed metal block off plates successfully. The IRC does require that room air not be allowed to enter the cavity of your new liner.

Plan also to have your existing terra cotta liner examined for its structural integrity. Cracks are OK. But if you are missing bricks, the flue is broken, etc. you will need to fix this before you pull your new liner through the flue.

If you want your work to meet code, I recommend that you by a copy of "Hearth Handbook for Building Officials: Solid Fuel Hearth Systems" $59.95 from the National Fireplace Institute. http://www.hpba.org/consumers/hearth/national-fireplace-institute See also http://hpbef.org/online_store.html

When you are all done, your install will cost about $5,000, plus or minus. So it's worth a few bucks to purchase the manual that explains what is required by code.

I have to figure out the best way to block off the bottom of the flue though. Any thoughts on that one?

Click to expand...

Construct and install a sheet metal block-off plate. You can get a sheet metal shop to make one for you, or you can buy the materials and follow the plans given on this forum. Just search for "block off plates."

Good luck with your install.