Planning dedicated boiler building

JP11 · May 15, 2011

Wow, what a great site. Wealth of knowledge on here.

I was checking out boilers at the Fryeburg fair in Maine. Really liked the look of the Vigas that Mark of AHONA had there. A little background.

When I originally built my home/wife's photo studio (approx 6k sf heated. Half being finished basement/garage) I had planned to do a Tarm dual fuel with heat storage in the basement. The price initially, and frankly the need for more equipment to get wood scared me off. The nail in the coffin was the increased chance of hurting myself collecting wood. (i'm a pilot, accident means no salary)

So.. i went with a buderus oil boiler. Whole house has radiant. I have a 80 gallon DHW tank that's under the boiler. I've been happy with it's operation. In the dead of winter it will run 16 or 18 hours of the day. I burn, A LOT of oil.

Now the better part. I'm making a portion of the fuel. I make 1200 or so gallons of biodiesel per year. I run some in my mercedes, and I ran it this year at about 65% biodiesel mixed with HHO. Bio cost is around a buck a gallon complete. My complete uneducated guess is that i'm burning 1500 gal of oil a year.

Now, the house is built. I've 70 acres of woods. I've got a 4WD kubota cab tractor. I see enough blow downs (it's wet ground) to have me thinking again about wood. I am thinking a two bay garage close to the back of the house (it's a daylight basement, with the garage around back) would be nice for stuff like the golf cart, the kubota, and all that kinda stuff.

A dedicated building could be built and planned ahead for the boiler and storage. It would be maybe a 50 to 75 food underground run to get back into the garage, with the oil boiler 30 feet from there. (boiler is in the back of the garage, which is under the 1200sf studio)

I don't care about heating the building, but I figure residual heat from the boiler would heat it enough. I go away a lot. But I think the wife would be motivated to not use oil enough to feed the boiler a couple times a day when she walks the dogs.

Thoughts? My guess is that between the building and the boiler I'm gonna spend 35 or 40k. It will need to match the home in a way, but the wife wants it to have 3 different looks, as she is a photographer and we will design the sides to all be different backgrounds. Maybe an old time garage look at the front for kids to have pics taken with their cars.

Anyway, a lot of info in there. Just wondering what I should be thinking next.

PS.. the change of heart over collecting wood. We just got a really good disability policy that would cover me if I got injured. It may sound dumb to some.. but hurt, I can't replace my current salary.

Jason

flyingcow · May 15, 2011

I have the same thoughts when i'm bucking the wood. I drive truck for a living. Wouldn't be good to be out of work.

My boiler is in an unattached building. I like the ease of wood storage, no mess in the house, etc. My storage is in my basement.

JP11 · May 16, 2011

do you have the storage in the house to just keep the heat loss in the house?

where I will have other vehicle storage I kind of wanted that heat loss from the storage in the boiler garage. I have room, especially vertically in the home's garage. I've got 10'4 to the bottom of the floor truss. But I figured it would be better to have it out with the boiler.

JP

Willman · May 16, 2011

I see enough blow downs

Heres the key to safer wood gathering. Felling is more dangerous and requires a higher skill set then bucking up blow downs. As long as they are all the way down. If not use you tractor to pull them down while safely away from the action. Just get a long chain. Invest in Kevlar boots and chaps, helmet with shield and don't work when fatigued and you shouldn't need the disability policy. Money isn't all its cracked up to be if you end up disabled.
With 70 acres you should check out the services of a forester who would make a plan for your woodlot. Might be some merchantable timber there.You could prolly hire a logger to fell for you and you could buck the brush and pick up some tips.

Will

barkeatr · May 16, 2011

IM working on plans for a woodshed, boiler room, workshop, deerstand. I have built it once before but it burned in an unfortunate accident. I can send you a photo of the previoius versoin if you wish. Im not sure how this export from a cad program will turn out but here it is.

Hunderliggur · May 16, 2011

In the KISS world, you may want to consider the Garn - I think they are easier for wives to load. At least I have my teenage some at home and he does load the Paxo Boiler for me. I have an outbuilding 70 feet or so from the house, and there is a 80 foot run from the house entry to the storage. Works fine for me. P.S. My almost 16yo son says he wants to learn how to use the chainsaw - I've kept him on the splitter, stacking, and chipping so far.

flyingcow · May 16, 2011

JP11 said:
do you have the storage in the house to just keep the heat loss in the house?

where I will have other vehicle storage I kind of wanted that heat loss from the storage in the boiler garage. I have room, especially vertically in the home's garage. I've got 10'4 to the bottom of the floor truss. But I figured it would be better to have it out with the boiler.

JP

I wanted the storage in basement for stand by loss. Which, now it's in, I have found there is very little stand by loss. But also i really didn't want to loose anymore garage space. My boiler is in my unattached garage. I built an 8x12 boiler room, insulated R-19 and it does very well keeping it self warm. Thought I might have to put some kind of radiator out there, but no need. My tank does a good job, but in the dead of winter i have to fire boiler once a day. Once boiler shuts down, the residual heat keeps everything warm for the next 24 hours.

woodsmaster · May 16, 2011

I've also found that well insulated storage has very little heat loss, so I wouldn't even factor heat loss in when deciding where to put the tanks.

DaveBP · May 16, 2011

Try a web search for "Farmi Winch"

Every tractor should have one.

Tennman · May 16, 2011

JP11, perfect plan. AND barketr your design looks almost exactly like what I built, BUT I added a 12' deep shed roof all the way across the back for storing/drying wood. IMHO just about perfect setup. JP you'll probably evolve like I have where I keep my eyes open in the local free little paper of folks selling stuff. Lots of firewood ads so because I'm often time and help short I mix wood that I process with some bought already split. In my case still FAR cheaper than propane. Other than my boiler barn being probably twice as far from the house than your plan and having lots of covered wood storage, between the barn pic and your ideas is exactly what I have and love it.

If only I had enough time to process all the tornado blow down around me I could have free heat for the rest of my and my grandchildren's lives! But I'm with you on the processing. I'm familiar with deaths of people felling trees in our area and I often work by myself so you're wise to be very cautious.

bpirger · May 16, 2011

As I was dropping a couple of red oaks this weekend, I was, and ALWAYS, seem to have the same thoughts. I'm a scientist, and dying in some felling accident would really bum me out! A very healthy respect for mass is important....as is looking for the hanging limbs, the split trunks, the things the tree is going to hit doing down, the list is endless. A winch on the back of the Kubota would make dragging the down stuff in quite easy. I just got a Wallenstein FX90....very happy with it. But it is still a lot of work....helps if you have kids. Though mine have been asking if we could do something else besides wood for at least one weekend this spring! But we are trying to get ahead....again!

With all radiant, look hard at the Garn. With the Garn, the buried pipe (about 80' of microflex), the fittings, the HX, the copper, the controls, etc. I have over $20K in the boiler system alone. That's with me doing everything. If you are paying someone, I'd add more. Same with your outbuilding...and building materials I hear are considerably up.

JP11 · May 16, 2011

Thanks for all the thoughts. A few replies.

I do have all of the safety gear. I don't think my land allows access to all of the wood via my kubota. It's just too wet, and won't freeze up hard enough before snow to get at the wood.

I did have it professionally cut off 5 years ago when I bought the land. I got about 500 bucks per acre net to me. I had A LOT of veneer wood. I do have a forestry plan for it. The loggers comments were pretty much, leave the oak and ash alone ( many 15 to 20 year old's or so still standing) and we'll be back in 10 or 15 years to do this all again.

I have thoughts of using a local guy who works construction and logs in the winter to help out. There's nothing like the real equipment. I think that I could easily hire him for a few days to fall what I mark. I could go and limb for a few weekends, then He could come by when the time is right with one of his two skidders and skid out to my area near where the eventual pole barn will go. Then I could buck and split at my own pace.

I'll keep making the biodiesel.. but I'm currently buying quite a bit of HHO. I can't easily ramp up the bio to the gallons I need. Plus.. if I ran straight BIO i'd really need to be there. It just needs nozzles and a cleaning at odd times. I had really good success this year at 6 week cleaning intervals, do it myself.

Why the Garn? does it heat the storage (man, they have a lot of storage) to a lower temp, and you recommend that because of the radiant? My upstairs radiant is stapled under the subfloor, and runs at about 140. Slab stuff runs at 100.

My hesitance with the idea of the Garn is that you have one machine, and it's not very modular. I guess also that means there may be less to break. I really liked the vigas, and it didn't SEEM like there was a whole lot of lever flipping or anything like that (need it to be EASY for the wife, she can follow directions really well, as long as the steps are always alike) A written list is all she wants. She even uses a written list to start the zero turn and mow the lawn. Whatever, that's her method. I can't complain.. I once talked her thru a nozzle change on the buderus on speakerphone!

I think I'm really looking at 25 to 30 for the building and 18 to 20 for the boiler now. A lot to chew on. I need to pay off the kubota first. But I feel that Oil is only gonna keep going up.

Jason

Tennman · May 17, 2011

Just separate the expense of the boiler barn and put in two bays like the drawing for your SS396 Chevelle or RV6 project you've always wanted. That quickly takes 30K off the boiler project! To Garn or not to Garn.... good question. Read alot here aboiut boilers. See I just saved you 40k.

ManiacPD · May 17, 2011

From reading this you've got a great opportunity for a sweet setup.

If I were in your situation it would be a Garn Barn, hands down. Our local dealer in Maine is Chris Holley in New Harbor. He's sharp as a tack with his boilers and has some excellent install cases with folks with a similar setup. My current system works pretty well but if I was to start again I'd have him set a Garn in my boiler room and call it good.

All things being equal the Garn is a turn key system. When you piece together a system like I have with a boiler, tank, piping, etc., there are moments when you really wonder if you've lost your mind. It took me a month to get my system working. If you are concerned about your wife supporting the project this will be a challenging time! My wife runs the system fine now but saw lots of invoices and little results for a month and wasn't real impressed with my ingenuity. (Now that oil is nearly $4/gallon I'm a hero, but that's another story...)

If you're going to cut wood invest in good PPE. Chaps, helmet, gloves and kevlar boots. Labonville is a good place to start. If your schedule permits check out MOFGA in Unity as they offer chainsaw safety and low impact forestry classes that you might benefit from.

Good luck and keep us posted!

JP11 · May 17, 2011

I'll check him out for sure. Love to see one run. Realistically it will be next summer's project, as I'm still chewing on the cab tractor bill.

I think subcontracting some of the tree work is really in order. Kinda like at work. I can tip a line guy to load my 70lb life raft onto the airplane (the tip money my company pays) or I can risk tweaking my back doing it myself... I don't touch the thing!

A little help felling and twitching would go a long way to cut down the risks. I like the idea of bucking and splitting. I seem to work around the house as a hobby. I just have to keep reminding my wife that it's better than me spending money on golf. She can see right were I'm at.. and it makes the house worth more.

JP

heaterman · May 18, 2011

JP11 said:
Thanks for all the thoughts. A few replies.

I do have all of the safety gear. I don't think my land allows access to all of the wood via my kubota. It's just too wet, and won't freeze up hard enough before snow to get at the wood.

I did have it professionally cut off 5 years ago when I bought the land. I got about 500 bucks per acre net to me. I had A LOT of veneer wood. I do have a forestry plan for it. The loggers comments were pretty much, leave the oak and ash alone ( many 15 to 20 year old's or so still standing) and we'll be back in 10 or 15 years to do this all again.

I have thoughts of using a local guy who works construction and logs in the winter to help out. There's nothing like the real equipment. I think that I could easily hire him for a few days to fall what I mark. I could go and limb for a few weekends, then He could come by when the time is right with one of his two skidders and skid out to my area near where the eventual pole barn will go. Then I could buck and split at my own pace.

I'll keep making the biodiesel.. but I'm currently buying quite a bit of HHO. I can't easily ramp up the bio to the gallons I need. Plus.. if I ran straight BIO i'd really need to be there. It just needs nozzles and a cleaning at odd times. I had really good success this year at 6 week cleaning intervals, do it myself.

Why the Garn? does it heat the storage (man, they have a lot of storage) to a lower temp, and you recommend that because of the radiant? My upstairs radiant is stapled under the subfloor, and runs at about 140. Slab stuff runs at 100.

My hesitance with the idea of the Garn is that you have one machine, and it's not very modular. I guess also that means there may be less to break. I really liked the vigas, and it didn't SEEM like there was a whole lot of lever flipping or anything like that (need it to be EASY for the wife, she can follow directions really well, as long as the steps are always alike) A written list is all she wants. She even uses a written list to start the zero turn and mow the lawn. Whatever, that's her method. I can't complain.. I once talked her thru a nozzle change on the buderus on speakerphone!

I think I'm really looking at 25 to 30 for the building and 18 to 20 for the boiler now. A lot to chew on. I need to pay off the kubota first. But I feel that Oil is only gonna keep going up.

Jason

A Garn would be really simple. No boiler protection needed all the way down to 100-110* water temps. Trust me. I have installed about any type of wood boiler you can name or imagine and there is nothing out there as simple to operate as a Garn. There is no need for control or integration of storage vessel(s) because the boiler is the storage and the storage is the boiler............if that makes any sense. My experience has told me time and again that people tend to severely under estimate the amount of time, piping, controls and planning that go into a properly set up storage based system. Not that I don't have an appreciation for that type of system....many of those who went that way have become very good customers.

JP11 · May 18, 2011

Heaterman-

Thanks.. after reading a bunch here.. this is my plan.

Soon as I get home I'm going to wire in a simple analog clock to my burner. It's too late now for winter burn, but I will start logging monthly burner usage.

I think I can WAG it that my burner was running 16 to 18 hours a day when it was super cold in the dead of winter.

I'm running a .85 nozzle at 140psi (biodiesel needs more pressure) so I'm not quite sure of the BTUs per day of that. They say mathematically that the Bio is 7% less BTus than diesel.. not sure comparing it to HHO. There's gonna be some fluff in there for sure.. as I probably run between 50 and 80 percent biodiesel and the rest HHO.

I want to get good data. Then can decide on which garn. My concern is really fires needed per day. If my wife could tend it a max of 3 times per day.. I think I could sell her on it. Since I only need water for my system of 150 or so (that's right isn't it? Upstairs radiant goes out at 140 or so) current boiler shuts off at about 175 or so i think...

Would the garn heat to 190 or so.. then run down real low? Or would I need to fire it to keep it within the 150 to 190 range.

Another question.. and it may sound dumb.. but is there a circulator that runs all the time between my garn tank out in the barn and the water in my oil boiler inside? or does it work like this.. zone calls for heat.. circulator out at garn runs for x minutes and if it doesn't get warm enough THEN after x minute delay the oil burner starts.

just looking for a laymans idea of how this would work. I should take some pics of the setup I have currently so you can see how it would tie in.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Jason

Jim K in PA · May 18, 2011

Jason - your approach is just the way it should be done. Do your homework and compare all your alternatives before you decide which system is best for your situation.

I installed my GARN (WHS2000) in fall of '08. I have a ~60' underground run and another ~60' inside ride of piping from my GARN to my oil burner in the basement. I am heating my ~3000 sq. ft. 200 year old farmhouse (leaky) using the existing finned tube baseboard emitters. Even in the dead of winter, I only need to burn a max of twice a day; once in the AM and once in the evening. And each burn is a single (full) load of wood. It takes a grand total of about 15 mintues of my (or my wife's, or my kids) time for BOTH burns, including loading, lighting, and waking to/from the GARN shed. I keep my GARN at between 160-190 during the coldest months, and lower as temps moderate.

As for integration, it will be pretty simple to interface your GARN (or whatever you choose) with your existing system. Use a flat plate heat exchanger to transfer heat from the GARN piping to the primary piping near your oil burner. There are a variety of ways to accomplish the process, but I have my system wired so that I still use all my original house controls for heat calls and the house circulator. I added a connection on the end switch of the zone valve controller to turn on the GARN circulators out in my garage. On a call for heat, as soon as the thermostat(s) call for it, the GARN circulators turn on, sending hot water to the HX. I use TACO heat motor zone valves, which take about 30 seconds or so to open up and close the circuit to actuate the house circulator. By that time hot water from the GARN is flowing through the HX and transferring into the house piping. It is seamless and simple. You utilize your existing mixing circuits, distribution piping, etc. This interface, and the design and planning of it, often intimidates people to the point of ruling out a wood heating system. No need for that level of concern. You can have a qualified local guy do the design and install, or you can educate yourself and go solo (with help from the Boiler Room, of course).

Is your DHW tank an indirect unit heated by your oil burner, or a a stand-alone unit? Sorry if I missed that in your original post.

BTW - I have my oil unit piped in a less than optimal way to bypass it when running on the GARN. But even with the less than optimal setup I have, swinging the handle on two ball valves and throwing a switch puts me back in oil burning mode in less than 30 seconds.

BTW #2 - I was burning 1200+ gallons of oil per year. I have not burned a gallon in over two years.

JP11 · May 18, 2011

Jim

Thanks.. your distances and heat load sound pretty similar to mine. I've got a bigger area to heat, but it's all radiant, and it's new and well insulated.

I THINK that my DHW tank is indirect(let me state that a different way.. I KNOW the water is heated by oil, and is plumbed in with the boiler, I ASSUME that it is heated with seperate water than the boiler. It has to be.. as the heater has glycol in it.. so there's a coil in there) Forgive me, I fly airplanes, so sometimes I have to just work thru the issues slowly and methodically, my terms are often wrong, even though I know what's going on in there.

).. It's a buderus tank that my boiler is setting on top of. It's an 80 gallon tank. Overkill, but like many things in my new home.. I overcompensated for the shortcomings of my last house. Just my wife and I and the dogs, so HW is never an issue.

So you have manually made it so that your oil burner is off? That won't work for me. I need something so that the wife can give up, have a bad day, whatever, and still have everything working. I'm in hotels 120 to 150 nights a year. I like the piece of mind that a big oil tank, a underground propane tank, and a automatic backup generator provide. Everybody is in a different situation.

I would need some sort of delay I guess so that the zone valve would wait to see if the temp was good before it lit the oil burner. I have TACO zone valves as well. There are 3 sets. I'll get some pics when I get home this weekend.

I just need to win the wife over in it's operation. She's frugal, so that will help sell her on the idea of wood. It won't do me much good if she won't run it. It would make it so that I have to have ANOTHER heat source in the barn to keep it from freezing if she doesn't want to mess with MY wood burning hobby.

JP

jebatty · May 19, 2011

Would the garn heat to 190 or so.. then run down real low? Or would I need to fire it to keep it within the 150 to 190 range.

You can quite easily calculate the time between firings if you know hour btuh heat load. The formula for how long between firings, that is, how long Garn storage will meet you need before you need to fire again, is Delta-T x 8.34 x storage gallons / btuh heat load. For example, my shop has about a 30,000 btuh load at -30F, I have 1000 gallons of storage, and I can heat load my storage to 190F and draw it down to 100F. My storage will provide heat for 90 x 8.34 x 1000 / 30,000 = 25 hours, which means I would have to fire the boiler once per day. More normal winter temperature heat load is about 15,000 btuh, which means one firing every other day.

Use your Garn tank volume and then you can determine how often you need to fire the Garn.

Gasifier · May 19, 2011

As for integration, it will be pretty simple to interface your GARN (or whatever you choose) with your existing system. Use a flat plate heat exchanger to transfer heat from the GARN piping to the primary piping near your oil burner.

Jim,

I am at the begginning of my install. What is the need for a flat plate heat exchanger? Can you explain what that does for the system. My system uses small circulation pumps for each zone. I am going to have two boiler guys I know install my system. But I want to understand everything that is going on when they do it. I thought that I could run the main pipe for hot water feed from by boiler to a "T" over the top of my storage tank, then go to a "T" above my boiler and into my existing "manifold" that feeds each zone. Doing the same with the return water to the bottom of the wood boiler off of the same main return line that goes to the oil boiler. Why do you need a flat plate heat exchanger to transfer heat from the garn piping to the piping of the oil boiler? Are they two seperate loops all together?

Jim K in PA · May 19, 2011

JP11 said:
Jim

Thanks.. your distances and heat load sound pretty similar to mine. I've got a bigger area to heat, but it's all radiant, and it's new and well insulated.

I THINK that my DHW tank is indirect(let me state that a different way.. I KNOW the water is heated by oil, and is plumbed in with the boiler, I ASSUME that it is heated with seperate water than the boiler. It has to be.. as the heater has glycol in it.. so there's a coil in there) Forgive me, I fly airplanes, so sometimes I have to just work thru the issues slowly and methodically, my terms are often wrong, even though I know what's going on in there. ).. It's a buderus tank that my boiler is setting on top of. It's an 80 gallon tank. Overkill, but like many things in my new home.. I overcompensated for the shortcomings of my last house. Just my wife and I and the dogs, so HW is never an issue.

It sounds like an indirect, but you will need to figure out if it is fed directly from the boiler HX or via piping and a seperate zone valve. The indirect tank will have it's own HX coil within the storage tank that boiler water is circulated through in order to heat the potable DHW.

So you have manually made it so that your oil burner is off? That won't work for me. I need something so that the wife can give up, have a bad day, whatever, and still have everything working. I'm in hotels 120 to 150 nights a year. I like the piece of mind that a big oil tank, a underground propane tank, and a automatic backup generator provide. Everybody is in a different situation.

Understood, and agreed. If I have a need to repipe my oil burner, I will convert it to a secondary loop off of a primary. That makes it very easy to switch automatically between two heating systems, with the system not in service completely bypassed. An aquastat and a simple relay can switch between your Buderus control schema and pumps and your GARN pumps and controls. If you have not done so, go to heatinghelp.com and get a couple of books written by Dan Holohan. "Pumping Away" and "Primary/Secondary Pumping Made Easy" will educate you in some good fundamentals of what we are discussing, and will give you valuable tools to use either in designing and building your system, or in discussing your system design with a professional (as well as arming you with the means to evaluate the competency of the professional!)

I would need some sort of delay I guess so that the zone valve would wait to see if the temp was good before it lit the oil burner. I have TACO zone valves as well. There are 3 sets. I'll get some pics when I get home this weekend.

We love pictures!

I just need to win the wife over in it's operation. She's frugal, so that will help sell her on the idea of wood. It won't do me much good if she won't run it. It would make it so that I have to have ANOTHER heat source in the barn to keep it from freezing if she doesn't want to mess with MY wood burning hobby.
JP

10-4 on that! Check out www.garn.com for some info and videos. There are also some videos on Youtube of GARN operation. I have some of my own videos that I took down a while ago, but will have back up again soon along with my installation pictures.

Jim K in PA · May 19, 2011

Gasifier said:
Jim,

I am at the begginning of my install. What is the need for a flat plate heat exchanger? Can you explain what that does for the system. My system uses small circulation pumps for each zone. I am going to have two boiler guys I know install my system. But I want to understand everything that is going on when they do it. I thought that I could run the main pipe for hot water feed from by boiler to a "T" over the top of my storage tank, then go to a "T" above my boiler and into my existing "manifold" that feeds each zone. Doing the same with the return water to the bottom of the wood boiler off of the same main return line that goes to the oil boiler. Why do you need a flat plate heat exchanger to transfer heat from the garn piping to the piping of the oil boiler? Are they two seperate loops all together?

There are arguments on either side of several issues with respect to putting your wood system in series with your existing boiler or putting in parallel with a heat exchanger. If your wood burning system (including storage) is non-pressurized, and you install it as you intend, you will have to de-pressurize your existing system. Than can (but does not always) result in difficulties in getting air bled from your distribution system, as well as introducing oxygenated water into the system from the open storage. This can be done, but careful maintenance of water chemistry is key (as it should be with any non-pressurized system).

Also, by running your systems in series, by definition you must cicrulate water through your existing boiler's heat exchanger. I did this for a season and quickly learned how much standby loss (wasted heat) I had with keeping that chunk of cast iron warm all winter, and the convective draft it induced sending my wood heat up a chimney that I was not using! It was very wasteful.

So, essentially, a flat plate heat exchanger is the seperation point between your existing system and your alternate heating system. Seriously consider converting your existing boiler to a primary/secondary setup, and using a FPHX between it and your wood fired boiler.

Sorry to JP for taking this thread a little to the side, but the issues Gassifier is asking about are directly applicable to his situation as well.

Gasifier · May 19, 2011

There are arguments on either side of several issues with respect to putting your wood system in series with your existing boiler or putting in parallel with a heat exchanger. If your wood burning system (including storage) is non-pressurized, and you install it as you intend, you will have to de-pressurize your existing system. Than can (but does not always) result in difficulties in getting air bled from your distribution system, as well as introducing oxygenated water into the system from the open storage. This can be done, but careful maintenance of water chemistry is key (as it should be with any non-pressurized system).

Also, by running your systems in series, by definition you must cicrulate water through your existing boilerâ€™s heat exchanger. I did this for a season and quickly learned how much standby loss (wasted heat) I had with keeping that chunk of cast iron warm all winter, and the convective draft it induced sending my wood heat up a chimney that I was not using! It was very wasteful.

So, essentially, a flat plate heat exchanger is the seperation point between your existing system and your alternate heating system. Seriously consider converting your existing boiler to a primary/secondary setup, and using a FPHX between it and your wood fired boiler.

Sorry to JP for taking this thread a little to the side, but the issues Gassifier is asking about are directly applicable to his situation as well.
Sorry, did not mean to take anyones thread off base, but thought it would be a good conversation to get in on.

Jim, I must not be understanding this correctly. I have intended to keep my whole system pressurized. From what you are saying that means my two boilers will be in series.? Do they have to be if the system is kept pressurised? I do want to continue with a pressurized system. I thought I could run my wood boiler without heating my oil boiler. Sending the water on by when the circulation pump for each zone calls for heat. My "manifold" that feeds all the zones is on the opposite side of the oil boiler than my wood boiler and storage tank. Why would the wood boiler shut down if the oil boiler is set for say 140, then the wood boiler is set for 170 and it has the storage tank in between the two of them? I thought my entire system could be pressurised and the two boilers parrallel.? Apparently I am not understanding this!

JP11 · May 19, 2011

Jim K in PA said:
Gasifier said:

Sorry to JP for taking this thread a little to the side, but the issues Gassifier is asking about are directly applicable to his situation as well.

Click to expand...

You kidding? I was getting ready to ask the same question!!

So I assume that from the talks of chemistry testing that the Garn is an unpressurized system. Hadn't thought of warming up that furnace that's open to the chimney inside being a waste. I'll get some pics soon. Dang hard to find an analog clock that runs on AC.

JP

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