what happened?!?!? What did I do wrong

Ok, so I got back home to my new condo (see "I'm finally a indoor woodburner" thread) tonight & decided to start a fire in the fireplace. I put a few good sized logs on the fire after it got going, & also, I decided to take a reccomendation I got from my other thread to rotate the flue damper closed a bit to give the hot air a bit more time in the firebox. Then, I dicided to go upstairs to my room & do some organizing. Then all of the sudden I hear what sound like maybe glass breaking, so I go out & look down & see that one of the panels on the glass doors completely shattered & blown apart. I run downstairs to get a closer look, & right about then, flames & smoke start coming out the hole where the glass used to be- making the smoke detectors go crazy- the flames were huge & reached almost to the mantel. I quicky looked around for a fire extinguisher, none to be found, so I quickly grab several 44-oz cups of water from the kitchen sink & extinguished the fire.

It was kinda a bit of a scary experience, & while I am a bit bummed that my fire was cut short tonight, I'm just thankful that the condo didn't burn down or even sustain any damage other than broken fireplace doors (which are replaceable), & a few soot marks on the carpet (might be able to get those out with one of those shampoo vacuums).


So, now that the whole situation is over with, I want to know, what the heck did I do wrong?

Did I put too much wood in the fireplace?

Should I have left the flue damper 100% open instead of taking the suggestion from the other thread to use it to choke down the draft?

Should I have not cleaned the doors earlier in the day with fireplace/stove glass cleaner?

Should I have not went off to another room, & instead sit & babysat the fireplace?

Should I have left the doors open instead of closing them?

All of the above?

None of the above- just a freak accident?

pen said:

When burning are you getting any smoke smell in the house? I see the area between the fireplace and mantle is quite dirty. If the fireplace doesn't draft really well to start with then I certainly wouldn't close that damper any while burning.

I'm no expert with fireplace doors. I wonder if some were designed to only be closed down when the fire was nearly out / out and this got to hot? The question about a shifting log hitting it is good also. Wonder if one broke in the past and someone replaced it with standard glass?

It may be time to find a sweep you trust and have him check this whole thing out top to bottom in person.

pen

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all that soot below the mantel was there when we moved in- so that was done by whoever the previous tenants were. I have not gotten any smoke smell inside befere this "incident" I'm not too sure about a log shifting- the way the glass shattered & blew out doesn't seem like the work of shifting wood, to me at least.

I'm starting to wonder about the glass maybe getting too hot too fast- I remember when I reloaded it after the kindling & initial stuff burned down, I was suprised at how much heat it was throwing out already, with the damper at an angle. I think I'm done with the damper experiments from now on.


Gas- as much as I'd love to get an insert, I don't own the place, so it isn't up to me.

I can't seem to find the manual for the fireplace anywhere in our condo- there's a manual for about every single other appliance in the place... except the fireplace. Go figure... But, I did read somewhere on the side of the fireplace behind the doors it said to burn with the doors full open OR full closed, so supposedly the glass should be able to take the heat when closed.

As for the reason I'm holding back from asking the landlord about an insert is mainly because he is trying to sell the place, & I kinda want to wait & see what becomes of that situation- if it starts to appear that it isn't going to sell for quite a while, or if he does sell it & the new owner is interested in long-term leasing it to us, then I might decide to approach him about an insert. Besides that, I need to build up a bit more money before I go shopping for an insert.

Gas- it broke on my 3rd fire... that's much better than breaking on my 2nd fire.

As for the screen- I'd use it instead of the doors, but since they don't have any handles or anything, they're a P-I-T-A to open/close when the fire's going- they're obviously wayyy to hot to move by hand, so I end up trying to push/pull the screens with the fire poker, which is where the P-I-T-A part comes into play.


Also, is ~$170 a reasonable price for new doors? I found these: http://www.woodstoves-fireplaces.com/marco-fireplace-doors/ ... I still have to measure the fireplace to see if it's the 36" or 41" model... the firebox is approx. 20" wide in back & 25" wide in front, so I want to say it's a 36, but I'd better wait till I get back to Big Sky to make sure, so I don't end up ordering ones that don't fit.


Also, as far as the chimney sweep goes- this will be my 1st time having to hire a chimney sweep, so what should I look for when hiring a sweep? Also, does anyone have an idea of how much a basic top-to-bottom inspection, like Penn suggested, would run as far as cost?

Also, one thing I haven't mentioned in either of my threads, but have been meaning to- the fireplace seems to have a really strong draft, which is why it seemed so odd that so much smoke came spilling into the room after the glass broke.

As for the soot below the mantel, I'm thinking maybe the previous tenants burned with the doors & screens open alot, which might let more soot build up on the rock face below the mantel- or possibly no one ever cleaned that rock face, so that soot's built up just a little by little until it looks like it did in my pics... or maybe the previous tenants had a door explode on them also.. Just a quick side thought- alot of the open fireplaces I've seen pictures of have some soot build up in that same area roght above the firebox..

I did have a lot of wood in there... what I'm starting to think is it was a combination of putting too much wood in too early (thus making the glass go from cold to hot quicker than if I slowly built up the fire), & having the flue damper at an angle (thus somewhat constricting the outlet for the heat & causing the firebox to heat up even more rapidly than normal).

I think from now on (once I replace the doors & make sure the chimney's ok), I'm going to

1. leave the damper at 90 degrees (all the way open) when burning

2. slowly build up the fire instead of throwing on a ton of wood as soon as kindling & smaller starter stuff burns down

3. only add a log or 2 at a time, to prevent the fire from going crazy

4. keep a close eye on the fire until it slows down- THEN I can leave the room.

5. see about getting a fire extinguisher or two for the condo- & maybe have a talk with the landlord as to why there aren't any fire extinguishers in the place.

Gasifier said:

Hey Ski Bum, maybe if you talk to the landlord he/she would split the cost of a new insert with you if you told him/her you would like to do some heating with wood. (I wouldn't tell them you broke the glass door on your second fire ;-) ), but maybe if you told them it would help to keep your heat bills down. Might be worth a shot if you could sell them the idea.

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I decided to get the tape measure out & measure the dimensions of the fireplace just out of curiousity, & after researching inserts, I honestly can't find any that will fit in this fireplace- not even the Avalon Pendelton, which is super small, can fit in it according to the min. dimensions it provides.


Here're the rough dimensions of the firebox (they might not be exact, but should be pretty close):

Width (rear): 24"

Width (front): 30"

Height: 20"

Depth: 15"

kingquad said:

Mt Ski Bum said:

Gasifier said:

Hey Ski Bum, maybe if you talk to the landlord he/she would split the cost of a new insert with you if you told him/her you would like to do some heating with wood. (I wouldn't tell them you broke the glass door on your second fire ;-) ), but maybe if you told them it would help to keep your heat bills down. Might be worth a shot if you could sell them the idea.

Click to expand...

I decided to get the tape measure out & measure the dimensions of the fireplace just out of curiousity, & after researching inserts, I honestly can't find any that will fit in this fireplace- not even the Avalon Pendelton, which is super small, can fit in it according to the min. dimensions it provides.


Here're the rough dimensions of the firebox (they might not be exact, but should be pretty close):

Width (rear): 24"

Width (front): 30"

Height: 20"

Depth: 15"

Click to expand...

Enviro 1200 should fit. Flue collar attaches on the inside of the insert, so don't worry about close height clearances. I have the Kodiak 1700 model and I'm very pleased with it. Very ruggedly built. Several aesthetically different models(Kodiak, Venice, Bostonian), but firebox is the same.

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thanks for your opinion... A few months ago when I was at one of the local fireplace shops that sells multiple brands (Enviro, Napoleon, Kuma, Kozy Heat, Morso, Archgard, Mendota, & possibly a couple other lesser-known brands), & when I was looking at a couple Enviro brochures they had, the guy said they tend to stear people away from Enviro, saying that they don't seem to be as well-built as some of the others they sell.

I checked out the dimensions for the 1200, & it looks like it'd fit this fireplace in every dimension... except for the rear width- my fireplace needs to be 3" wider in the back. It seems like most inserts are designed for LARGE zc-fireplaces...

Also, I'm starting to think that if everything plays out like I mentioned several posts ago, since finding an insert to fit this fireplace is proving to be hard, I'm thinking about maybe replacing it with a free-standing Avalon Olympic, if the landlord approves.

FPX Dude said:

Ski Bum...ya know, seems like you're trying to squeeze all you can outta that ZC. From closing the damper down when burning (yikes?) and probably burning it pretty hot, you probably lucky the place not burn down by now. With all the work and effort you got from cutting/loading and (I think you said previously) carrying wood up a number of flights of stairs, it's time to move to another place or get the landlord to make a decision and let you put something worthwhile in there. I hope you can soon change your signature from "dreaming" to "proud owner" of an Avalon.

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this place is a different place than that one with the fireplace on the 3rd floor... this one has a nice entry-level great room with the fireplace in it- a much better layout! As for adjusting the damper while burning, it was suggested in another thread that if you put the damper at a slight angle instead of at 90 degrees (fully open), it'll help increase burn times/heat output a bit (& it did increase the heat output for sure- I'm thinking that might've been the problem), so I decided to try it, but I made 2 major mistakes- 1. I went to do something upstairs when I should've stayed downstairs to keep a close eye on the "experiment" fire, & 2. I should've kept the fire relatively small during the "experiment" until I knew how the fire/fireplace responded under the new conditions.

Either way, I too hope to be able to change my signature to "proud owner" of an Avalon before winter. I'll see how things play out over the next couple months with the landlord's efforts to sell the place (keeping my fingers crossed for a buyer interested in letting us enter into a long term lease so we can stay in this place for a while), & hopefully you'll see my signature change by winter to say "proud owner" of an Olympic- I'm hoping!