What a waste of wood

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weatherguy

Minister of Fire
Feb 20, 2009
5,920
Central Mass
There was a tornado that hit our town and several towns west of us last wednesday, it wiped out many houses and deforested acres and acres of land. Fortunately only 3 deaths. The national guard has been here working for a week along with several tree companies to clean up the fallen trees. I went to where they working today to inquire about the wood and was told all wood is going to a spot FEMA has and its being chipped. No one can have any wood unless its fallen on your property, then they'll leave it if you want.
I see a lot of cut up wood and uncut trees on private land, I guess my next move will be to knock on doors and ask if they want it out of there. What a waste of good fuel.
 
a waste indeed- I don't understand chipping perfectly good firewood. The local university (Ball State) used to sell the wood they cut down around campus for $10 per pickup load- but I asked a guy about it recently when I saw him cutting some wood and he says now his boss says they have to chip it all- at the time he was taking down a huge oak- he agreed it was stupid and said "course if I leave it here overnight and it disappears before I come back tomorrow I don't think anyone will complain ;)"
 
When we had our tornado, FEMA was very good. However, one FEMA representative got a little assertive about what we were going to do with the trees we had been hauling off to a city facility. He wanted them hauled to our tub grinder site. He was afraid they would be burned without the proper permits. After the meeting I asked him to stay and we had a little heart to heart talk. Those trees never saw a tub grinder, but perished in the white hot heat of many fires I am sure. Unfortunately, I didn't get any.
 
I agree that is a total waste! I wonder if they are afraid of liability with people so sue happy these days? I would like to know what they do with the wood chips as I would be PO'd if they gave them to an electric company etc. as free fuel.. I can't even imagine how much wood is down there! Glad you're OK..

Ray
 
Maritime energy here is selling pellets and Bio bricks. Prob the heating companies got it. I guess they're getting a little chunk no matter what ya burn.
 
raybonz said:
I agree that is a total waste! I wonder if they are afraid of liability with people so sue happy these days? I would like to know what they do with the wood chips as I would be PO'd if they gave them to an electric company etc. as free fuel.. I can't even imagine how much wood is down there! Glad you're OK..

Ray

39 miles long, check out the path, and I would say 90% of the path was woods.

post-100-0-01657400-1307491933.jpg
 
weatherguy said:
raybonz said:
I agree that is a total waste! I wonder if they are afraid of liability with people so sue happy these days? I would like to know what they do with the wood chips as I would be PO'd if they gave them to an electric company etc. as free fuel.. I can't even imagine how much wood is down there! Glad you're OK..

Ray

39 miles long, check out the path, and I would say 90% of the path was woods.
Wow, incredible aerial shot!
 
Thanks for posting that picture. FEMA and their decisions can be typical government type decisions and those usually are not too smart. It is sad when our government would not allow people to remove the burnable wood yet look at how freely they will give to other causes.....
 
woodmeister said:
didn't that area have a problem with those nasty beetles? I thought I remember reading last year they didn't want wood transported out of state.

Just a small portion of the area had the beetles, the city of Worcester and some parts of the surrounding towns. After they took down the beetle infested trees some areas looked like a tornado hit, the area was much smaller than the tornado path.
 
Island pond road in Springfield finally opened today. The street was lined with tons of old trees. Now it is wide open with a couple 'stems' left behind. Houses totally destroyed, total devastation. Too bad they throw the trees into a grinder, but then again I'm sure having the streets clogged with scroungers wouldn't help the cleanup either.
 
weatherguy said:
There was a tornado that hit our town and several towns west of us last wednesday, it wiped out many houses and deforested acres and acres of land. Fortunately only 3 deaths. The national guard has been here working for a week along with several tree companies to clean up the fallen trees. I went to where they working today to inquire about the wood and was told all wood is going to a spot FEMA has and its being chipped. No one can have any wood unless its fallen on your property, then they'll leave it if you want.
I see a lot of cut up wood and uncut trees on private land, I guess my next move will be to knock on doors and ask if they want it out of there. What a waste of good fuel.





Pm me, gimme a day or too and will hook you up
 
With all the junk that could have been imbedded into those trees the danger of injury while processing could out weigh the benefit
 
My theory is that big brother ( government) uses all that for wood chips for the wood burning power plants ? I recently inquired about getting some from a near by city and was told that all the trees ,logs and branches are chipped and burned in the power plant .
 
Big brother has to move things along no time to let people come and pick through wood...
Also the wood is brought in log length , they don't want you to get hurt from a rolling log and then be liable for that too...
 
I was originally thinking that it was a waste of wood...then started to think if I was in their shoes.
Say we had a tornado around here, and weeks after I saw all these out of town folks curtting up trees and taking away the wood...while I stood in my yard looking at my tent my family is in because I lost my home, and instead of cutting up the down trees on my property I was trying to get some order back to what I had lost.
I just guess I think I would be a little pizzed if I saw all these folks taking wood I could burn when I didn't have a home left to stand in.
 
I agree with iceman. Disaster relief by nature has to be efficient and at the same time not create more unsafe conditions for the public. There is a lot of time involving manpower, equipment, transportation, danger, and $$$ in a clean-up operation. The problem with FEMA is that it has it's inefficiencies and anything that might impede it's work makes it that much more inefficient. They never know when another situation will develop elsewhere such as happened in Tuscaloosa and then in Joplin so they need to get in and out as swiftly as possible to conserve manpower and $$$. When Katrina hit south Mississippi I know for a fact that debris trucks waited *hours* to get unloaded so they could go back and get another load because of the bottleneck at the dumping sites...imagine if they had been sorting the possible firewood out of the debris. Piling the tree length logs to the side would take time to sort and move and then, as was mentioned, it would create a liability issue when firewood scroungers showed up. One solution is to approach private land owners about removing downed trees from their property...there are lots of privately owned wooded areas that the "official" relief/clean-up crews will not be working in.

I agree that it is a giant waste of energy to chip and burn the tree debris and would welcome a solution that would let the local people utilize that energy, especially those families hardest hit by the storms. I've got to say that personally t I would feel uncomfortable going in and bucking up firewood for myself while families across the street or down the road are still needing help putting their lives back together. If you want to help...help, if your help involves using a chainsaw...fine, but if you're going to be in the thick of things don't be there for what *you* can get out of it because you'll just be in the way.

This probably isn't a popular view but it's the way I see it.

Ed
 
daveswoodhauler said:
I was originally thinking that it was a waste of wood...then started to think if I was in their shoes.
Say we had a tornado around here, and weeks after I saw all these out of town folks curtting up trees and taking away the wood...while I stood in my yard looking at my tent my family is in because I lost my home, and instead of cutting up the down trees on my property I was trying to get some order back to what I had lost.
I just guess I think I would be a little pizzed if I saw all these folks taking wood I could burn when I didn't have a home left to stand in.
Yelp, you finally return to your destroyed home from the emergency shelter only to see someone bucking and loading up the "old oak tree" from your front yard...sure, you need it removed but you also might like it c/s/s in the backyard (when you get the wreck of your neighbors barn out of the way)...by the time you get your house rebuilt the wood might be dried. Wouldn't exactly lift your spirits to see them taking it, eh? Like I said before, I hate to see all the wood energy wasted and would love to see it benefit those who've lost everything. Maybe the "authorities" could set up some wood yards at different locations, hire some of the locals to operate them and sell the raw wood for processing. Locations have a lot to do with things, too...there's a lot more wood burners in Joplin than in Tuscaloosa so a public wood yard might work in the northern areas but probably wouldn't in Tuscaloosa.

I'll never forget the images after Katrina of all the lumber piled up by the storm surge...massive amounts that could have rebuilt many houses....but most of it was bulldozed, burned, buried...seems they could have drafted some of the folks getting crazy checks, my-toe-hurts-checks, etc., into the workforce and sorted through a lot of that lumber. I would have rather paid them for working than sitting their grumbling about why there check wasn't more. But, the logistics of making that happen would have delayed things even more in getting a lot of that debris cleaned up.

Man has no perfect answer for cleaning up after these disasters, but the victim's lives should be the first priority, then all else should follow.

Ed
 
Yelp, you finally return to your destroyed home from the emergency shelter only to see someone bucking and loading up the “old oak tree†from your front yard…sure, you need it removed but you also might like it c/s/s in the backyard (when you get the wreck of your neighbors barn out of the way)...by the time you get your house rebuilt the wood might be dried. Wouldn’t exactly lift your spirits to see them taking it, eh? Like I said before, I hate to see all the wood energy wasted and would love to see it benefit those who’ve lost everything. Maybe the “authorities†could set up some wood yards at different locations, hire some of the locals to operate them and sell the raw wood for processing. Locations have a lot to do with things, too…there’s a lot more wood burners in Joplin than in Tuscaloosa so a public wood yard might work in the northern areas but probably wouldn’t in Tuscaloosa.

I think thats what some towns are doing, you wouldnt be cutting wood on anyones property unless they asked you to do it, or you asked tjhem if they wanted it off their property. Im sure if they're burners they would want the wood to stay for the future.
 
Its a good idea for wood stations but anyone out there that burns believe me their friends have called for them to get it. It would attract people from other areas which is what they don't want .. then how much do they put at the station? What if its too much? It makes more work. Remember the towns and cities are mentally hurt right now they aren't thinking about a small % of people who burn wood ... It's easier, faster to chip and sell or give the chips to logging companies, for mulch or wood pellets..
There is plenty of wood , place an ad on Craigslist they will call you to come pick up some wood

This is an example not meant to Target anyone

Imagine seeing people you don't know taking , cutting wood so they can save a few bucks while your house is destroyed?
They will feel like you coulda /should've helped not come to town just to get wood...


Now if you come with a log truck and take it from their property they will love you
Or offer them some cash I am sure they will love them....
 
- The recovery people cannot sit around on big piles of logs, waiting for some woodburners to come along whenever they feel like it only to try and cherry pick the "premium" wood and toss all the brush and other stuff they don't want off to the side.
- They also cannot assume the liability for people to come in with their chainsaws, climb up on top of a pile of wood and chop off a leg. People are too sue happy, especially when there is a crisis.
- The logs are big, heavy and have sharp ends. Requires specialized equipment to deal with effectively. Chipped logs can be deal with by a loader and a dump truck. Also easily piled up, burned in a biomass plant, buried or otherwise disposed of.

Basically think of the dumbest scroungers you guys know...the one with the 12" electric chainsaw that has the chain on backwards and is trying to get wood to heat his house with his Prius. Thats who they have to think about...for every one of us who has a clue what they're doing and how to do it effectively there are 35 of this other guy who stand at the ready to totally screw up the whole operation because they want the one piece of apple at the bottom of the pile because it'll burn with pretty colors in their open fireplace.
 
I always hate to see resources go to waste, heck that's part of the reason I love heating with wood; The vast majority that I've burned was destined for the landfill. Tree services chip mountains of wood and dump it in landfills all the time as we know. What they can't chip they often dump in log form, and that's just the normal order, not involving any kind of disaster. As others have pointed-out speed and safety are the utmost priority in emergency response. Time lost is money lost & wood is cheap in comparison.
I say get out there & get anything that folks want cleared away, but don't expect it to be all stacked in a neat log pile in a convenient location for burners to access.

Not wood related, but relevant:
I've done some emergency response work for commercial/industrial clients, mostly train derailments, but also post-Katrina clean-up. From what I've seen in the private sector, the basic M.O. is to throw as many resources as quickly as possible to get things back on-line. It means a lot of waste, but the calculation is that the price of down-time is too high to do any messing around. I've seen entire warehouses full of inventory destroyed & pitched because the ins. co. will pay and sorting it would take too much time. I've seen farmland purchased and new rail-lines built, only to be scrapped a couple weeks later, all because that would get trains rolling a day or 2 sooner; seen many tanker car loads sent-up in controlled burns 'cause it's faster than transferring into trucks... I've also seen some big, stupid & costly mistakes made in the rush to recover quickly. IMO the issue here is part of an undervalueing of resources. FEMA, state & local agencies and private contractors would come up with plans to save resources after disasters if that's what they were being pushed to do, but it isn't.
 
Also, check the free section of the western MA craigslist...I see ads for tornado damage firewod several times a day. Alot of that part of the state is mainly hardwood, so your odds of hitting at least birch and soft maple if not sugar maple and oak are quite good.
 
I spent Saturday with a volunteer crew helping to clean up. The amount of wood down is incredible, as is the risk both from nature and the folks working the clean up.

I drove over an hour to get there - the group I was with was organized through my church (that coordinated with a local church in the area). We arrived and the first question from the local church was "how many saws do you have" followed by "please step forward." Basically we went out organized around those of us with saws (and presumably knowing how to operate them). Objective: Get the material to the curb for pickup. Town/county/whoever was going to have trucks come around to pick up from the road, but debris had to be piled there. Ok... we had our instructions... off we go.

We arrived at our assigned address with myself as the 'saw' and about a half dozen others dressed for work. Homeowner was there and already working with a relative who had a saw but there was plenty left to do. They were lucky really, only minor damage to roof, but the trees behind their house had been snapped off about 10' up, twisted in a pile, then dumped back down in the yard (along with a few other trees?). Yard full of debris mostly oriented in the same direction, but not a nice log load stack as you can imagine. Some hardwoods, but mostly pine trees - "stacked" on their sides and you could see the tension in the bowed limbs supporting the trunks like bicycle stands on the bottoms. You can imagine the interesting jenga game we were playing. Stack was probably 10-12' tall (hard to judge really, but certainly higher than I was going to cut).

To make a long story short(er) - we did get it cut down and hauled to the street. Approach was to limb the trees on the side we could reach using saws and/or axe - leaving the load bearing branches in place. Then tied a rope to the top trunks and pulled what we could to the ground to limb and chunk up to carry away to the street. Once the pile was down we actually did find the remains of the trunks inside and were able to limb and cut those down too.

End of the day we cleared that back yard almost completely. We also had some other volunteers show up so at one point I think we had close to a dozen folks streaming through carrying debris out by hand and wheelbarrow. With three cutters and others with clippers we kept the draggers busy. Bottom line - it is amazing what can be done with a hard working group - despite some periods of heavy rain (btw, rain soaked gloves can cause the axe to fly out of your hand... oops!). NO serious injuries the entire day - some blisters, but nothing else.

One small part done - need to do it a few hundred more times before mission is accomplished though.... so much more to do.

Anyway, all this to say, there is a LOT of wood on the curbs. I can tell you that if you were to drive down the road and pull chunks out and load your truck nobody would stop you. Then again, perhaps you could consider bringing your saw and spending a day or two helping folks clean up... then go home filled with a warm feeling that goes a step beyond just cutting your own wood... even if you don't fill your truck in the process.
 
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