Oil for Combustion Fan

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susb8383

Member
Oct 24, 2009
79
Framingham MA
Hi,

I read some posts on this forum that said for oiling the combustion fan (I have a Whitfield Advantage Plus) you could use 3-in-1 oil in the blue can. So the next time I saw this at the hardware store, I bought it and tried it.

It's probably the only piece of bad advice I've gotten on this forum.

I put 2 drops in each hole and replaced the plug.

A few weeks later I removed the fan to do some cleaning.

All over the fan and the housing was a layer of shiny black stuff. It looked like it would be wet and gooey, but it was totally dry. It definitely had no lubricating properties whatsoever.

I will mention that at the same time, I had a problem with my stove getting really hot due to the auger motor having too high an RPM, so my stove probably got hotter than it should have. Maybe that's why, but it was a total mess. I'll attach some pictures.

So I'll never do that again. I noticed after the fact that they recommend an oil right on the label of the motor. Can't tell you what it is because I replaced the motor and the new one does not require oiling.

Just wanted to post this in case it's helpful.

--Susie

fan.jpg

housing.jpg
 
Hello

Wow, my combustion fan in the Avalon Astoria is a completely sealed unit!!

I only put 3-1 oil on my convection fan!! The advice I saw on here was for Convection fans.

See pic of Convection Blower below
 

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susb8383 said:
....I read some posts on this forum that said for oiling the combustion fan (I have a Whitfield Advantage Plus) you could use 3-in-1 oil in the blue can. So the next time I saw this at the hardware store, I bought it and tried it.

It's probably the only piece of bad advice I've gotten on this forum.

I put 2 drops in each hole and replaced the plug.......

The advice you read about was most likely for oiling the CONVECTION fan. And besides that, the 2 drops of oil that you put in the ports did NOT cause all that mess, IMO.

My guess is that all that goo might be creosote....there are other problems with your stove's burning characteristics.
 
Hello

Here is a link to Exhaust Blower cleaning
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/60251/

No mention of oil.

It does say to use spray graphite for the Metal fan blades. After pulling the exhaust blower out again this year, I must say it seems like the graphite really does help some of the pellet dust from sticking!!
 
That goo is creosote, it will clean off if you use warm soapy water (it will make a heck of a mess, so do the cleaning outside).

One follows the instructions on the manufacturers plate on the motor.

If there are oil ports the proper oil to use is on the plate. The blue and white 3 in 1 oil can contains non detergent SAE 20# oil.
 
Before you tried the oil in the blower, did you remove the combustion blower? I have a feeling that the creosote was caused by something else, possibly a clog or restriction in the exhaust flues or the vent pipe.
 
imacman said:
The advice you read about was most likely for oiling the CONVECTION fan.

Nope, it was definitely for the combustion/exhaust fan. Here are some examples:

"Also, have you tried to lube the combustion blower. Use SAE 20 or the Blue Bottled 3-in-1 Oil that’s made for electric motors. (also SAE 20)"
from post #5 in https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/73311/#855798

"most motors are using 20W non detergent or 3 in 1 in the blue can."
from post #2 in https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/63504/
(title of thread was "pellet pro 2 combustion blower")

"most electric motors of this type are meant to be lubed with straight SAE 20 non-detergent oil. One of the best, IMO, is the 3 in 1 in the blue can…..( it’s meant for electric motors)."
from post #11 in https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/61719/
(title of thread was "Oiling exhaust fan on Whitfield Advantage IIT")

imacman said:
And besides that, the 2 drops of oil that you put in the ports did NOT cause all that mess, IMO.
My guess is that all that goo might be creosote....there are other problems with your stove's burning characteristics.

I had been working on a problem with my stove not burning properly for months and had removed the combustion motor many times to try to clean out the chamber. There was nothing like this at all in there, only the typical soot. It wasn't until I put the oil in and then removed the motor again soon after that all of a sudden this mess was in there. I don't see how it could be from anything else.
 
susb8383 said:
imacman said:
The advice you read about was most likely for oiling the CONVECTION fan.

Nope, it was definitely for the combustion/exhaust fan. Here are some examples:

I had been working on a problem with my stove not burning properly for months and had removed the combustion motor many times to try to clean out the chamber. There was nothing like this at all in there, only the typical soot. It wasn't until I put the oil in and then removed the motor again soon after that all of a sudden this mess was in there. I don't see how it could be from anything else.

Yes, there have been a few threads discussing oiling the comb. blower, but regardless, 2 DROPS of 20W non-detergent oil WILL NOT cause the problem in your pics....please re-read all the other posts above by some VERY knowledgeable members. I think they all refer to CREOSOTE build-up, which is a direct result of a poorly burning stove, not a couple tiny drops of oil.

I know it makes people feel better not admitting that their stove is burning poorly, but that is very much in evidence by your own pics. Take Smokey's advice and clean the creosote out.

And while your at it, I advise taking the stove outside, completely dismantle it, and use brushes, compressed air, vacuum, leaf blower, etc, etc and get every last bit of ash out of every nook & cranny.
 
susb8383 said:
imacman said:
The advice you read about was most likely for oiling the CONVECTION fan.

Nope, it was definitely for the combustion/exhaust fan. Here are some examples:

"Also, have you tried to lube the combustion blower. Use SAE 20 or the Blue Bottled 3-in-1 Oil that’s made for electric motors. (also SAE 20)"
from post #5 in https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/73311/#855798

"most motors are using 20W non detergent or 3 in 1 in the blue can."
from post #2 in https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/63504/
(title of thread was "pellet pro 2 combustion blower")

"most electric motors of this type are meant to be lubed with straight SAE 20 non-detergent oil. One of the best, IMO, is the 3 in 1 in the blue can…..( it’s meant for electric motors)."
from post #11 in https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/61719/
(title of thread was "Oiling exhaust fan on Whitfield Advantage IIT")

imacman said:
And besides that, the 2 drops of oil that you put in the ports did NOT cause all that mess, IMO.
My guess is that all that goo might be creosote....there are other problems with your stove's burning characteristics.

I had been working on a problem with my stove not burning properly for months and had removed the combustion motor many times to try to clean out the chamber. There was nothing like this at all in there, only the typical soot. It wasn't until I put the oil in and then removed the motor again soon after that all of a sudden this mess was in there. I don't see how it could be from anything else.

All those threads were there to help someone. Oil on a Motors bearing/shaft can not get into the Combustion Area, Unless you used "Copious" Amounts and put it in the wrong spot (Still hard to do, and wouldn't cause that mess/mass)Been using oil for 3 years.. When your auger "OVERFED" and Overheated your stove, it created that mass of creosote. Your stove was burning rich. If its that messy in your Comb blower area, then the whole inside (Ash Traps, Heat Exchangers, Etc) of your stove looks like that. That is not from a couple drops of oil. If the motor takes oil. Then it cant make it that far up the shaft. Oil goes on the opposite end of motor. It takes a General SAE 20 or 3-in-1 Oil. Here is my Exhaust blower from my "Spring Cleaning. 3 yrs Strong using that oil. Never had more than Ash on my Combustion Blower/Blades......

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/75103/
 
DexterDay said:
....Here is my Exhaust blower from my "Spring Cleaning. 3 yrs Strong using that oil. Never had more than Ash on my Combustion Blower/Blades......

Here's mine after 1 1/2 tons:
 

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imacman said:
Yes, there have been a few threads discussing oiling the comb. blower, but regardless, 2 DROPS of 20W non-detergent oil WILL NOT cause the problem in your pics....please re-read all the other posts above by some VERY knowledgeable members. I think they all refer to CREOSOTE build-up, which is a direct result of a poorly burning stove, not a couple tiny drops of oil.

I know it makes people feel better not admitting that their stove is burning poorly, but that is very much in evidence by your own pics. Take Smokey's advice and clean the creosote out.

And while your at it, I advise taking the stove outside, completely dismantle it, and use brushes, compressed air, vacuum, leaf blower, etc, etc and get every last bit of ash out of every nook & cranny.

Sorry, all, but you're not going to convince me the oil didn't cause the problem. I had already been through all that--did the compressed air, leaf blower, etc. etc. The stove was clean as a bean when I oiled it. My burn problem turned out to be related to the ultra grate having a crack and a missing rod, and also the auger feeding at a higher RPM. There were no clogs of any kind.

As I said, I had taken the motor off multiple times and there wasn't any trace of that stuff until I put the oil in.

I'm not talking about in the combustion chamber. I'm talking about in the housing right where the combustion fan fits in.

I did find one thread that I can't locate now. One guy was arguing that the flash point of the 3-in-1 was too low to be a good oil for this purpose. Based on his argument, it makes sense to me that I had this problem with a stove that was getting way too hot, I'm talking about almost overheating with the auger speed on 1 and the blower on 5. That's hot!

It had been burning that way for about a year. I didn't have that build up on anything until the oil--not on the heat exchanger tubes, or any of the housing. Not until I did the oil.
 
susb8383 said:
imacman said:
Yes, there have been a few threads discussing oiling the comb. blower, but regardless, 2 DROPS of 20W non-detergent oil WILL NOT cause the problem in your pics....please re-read all the other posts above by some VERY knowledgeable members. I think they all refer to CREOSOTE build-up, which is a direct result of a poorly burning stove, not a couple tiny drops of oil.

I know it makes people feel better not admitting that their stove is burning poorly, but that is very much in evidence by your own pics. Take Smokey's advice and clean the creosote out.

And while your at it, I advise taking the stove outside, completely dismantle it, and use brushes, compressed air, vacuum, leaf blower, etc, etc and get every last bit of ash out of every nook & cranny.

Sorry, all, but you're not going to convince me the oil didn't cause the problem. I had already been through all that--did the compressed air, leaf blower, etc. etc. The stove was clean as a bean when I oiled it. My burn problem turned out to be related to the ultra grate having a crack and a missing rod, and also the auger feeding at a higher RPM. There were no clogs of any kind.

As I said, I had taken the motor off multiple times and there wasn't any trace of that stuff until I put the oil in.

I'm not talking about in the combustion chamber. I'm talking about in the housing right where the combustion fan fits in.

I did find one thread that I can't locate now. One guy was arguing that the flash point of the 3-in-1 was too low to be a good oil for this purpose. Based on his argument, it makes sense to me that I had this problem with a stove that was getting way too hot, I'm talking about almost overheating with the auger speed on 1 and the blower on 5. That's hot!

It had been burning that way for about a year. I didn't have that build up on anything until the oil--not on the heat exchanger tubes, or any of the housing. Not until I did the oil.

Think what you may, But burning "Rich" will cause lots of smoke. Smoke and Low exhaust temps. (High Convection Fan, Low heat) will cause Creosote.. Even in a Pellet stove. This has been discussed before. A pellet stove can produce it, although un-likly. It will happen in any Wood burning device when conditions are right.

Go to the Hearth Room Forum and do a Search for Creosote.. Many pics will come up... That is what you have in your stove. Oil does not form Creosote. No woodstove takes oil, but yet under the right condition, they all will produce it.

Please, do not think we are steering you wrong. No one on here wants to give bad advice. No one wants to receive Bad advice.. Everyone does there best to pass along the "Right" thing to do. If your Old Motor had "Oil Ports", then it was supposed to be done at least once a year. Along with a GOOD Cleaning...

Oh and imacman.. My stove has only went a max of 2 tons in between Combustion blower cleanings. Normally do it once mid-season. Just showing the OP a pic of a 3 yr old blower after it had been cleaned.
 
DexterDay said:
Oh and imacman.. My stove has only went a max of 2 tons in between Combustion blower cleanings. Normally do it once mid-season. Just showing the OP a pic of a 3 yr old blower after it had been cleaned.

Yep, I know what your intent was.

In any event, the OP is convinced the oil caused the problem. I have nothing more to say about it.

Just hope we don't see him posting for help next winter with the new oil-less motor and the same creosote problem......but he might listen then.
 
imacman said:
DexterDay said:
Oh and imacman.. My stove has only went a max of 2 tons in between Combustion blower cleanings. Normally do it once mid-season. Just showing the OP a pic of a 3 yr old blower after it had been cleaned.

Yep, I know what your intent was.

In any event, the OP is convinced the oil caused the problem. I have nothing more to say about it.

Just hope we don't see him posting for help next winter with the new oil-less motor and the same creosote problem......but he might listen then.

Agreed. And we have compared pics before. Here was the pic I posted when you last posted yours. This is a "Dirty" pic of my blower (For the OP)
 

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Hello

Well the pic below is from the Whitfield Advantage Plus Operating Manual says to use Turbine Oil.

http://www.butkus.org/whitfield_operate/whitfield_operate.htm

It does say to oil both Combustion and Convection Blowers.

So Snowy's Insulin needle mix should work well.

"What I have in the Syringe is a slight mix of 30Wt and some high temp turbine oil."
 

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susb8383 said:
imacman said:
Yes, there have been a few threads discussing oiling the comb. blower, but regardless, 2 DROPS of 20W non-detergent oil WILL NOT cause the problem in your pics....please re-read all the other posts above by some VERY knowledgeable members. I think they all refer to CREOSOTE build-up, which is a direct result of a poorly burning stove, not a couple tiny drops of oil.

I know it makes people feel better not admitting that their stove is burning poorly, but that is very much in evidence by your own pics. Take Smokey's advice and clean the creosote out.

And while your at it, I advise taking the stove outside, completely dismantle it, and use brushes, compressed air, vacuum, leaf blower, etc, etc and get every last bit of ash out of every nook & cranny.

Sorry, all, but you're not going to convince me the oil didn't cause the problem. I had already been through all that--did the compressed air, leaf blower, etc. etc. The stove was clean as a bean when I oiled it. My burn problem turned out to be related to the ultra grate having a crack and a missing rod, and also the auger feeding at a higher RPM. There were no clogs of any kind.

As I said, I had taken the motor off multiple times and there wasn't any trace of that stuff until I put the oil in.

I'm not talking about in the combustion chamber. I'm talking about in the housing right where the combustion fan fits in.

I did find one thread that I can't locate now. One guy was arguing that the flash point of the 3-in-1 was too low to be a good oil for this purpose. Based on his argument, it makes sense to me that I had this problem with a stove that was getting way too hot, I'm talking about almost overheating with the auger speed on 1 and the blower on 5. That's hot!

It had been burning that way for about a year. I didn't have that build up on anything until the oil--not on the heat exchanger tubes, or any of the housing. Not until I did the oil.

That is creosote, and your combustion blower is supposed to be regularly oiled, further since your stove was burning wrong to start out with, it is just possible that after having oiled that blower so it could actually turn at a proper speed it began sucking out what was previously was forming and sticking to the insides of your heat exchanger (some of which might still be in there).

Since you seem to think that mess is oil I suggest you take a sample of it to a lab for chemical analysis.
 
Hello

Here is a video that Dave made from Wood Heat Stoves & Solar on Whitfield Combustion Blowers.

He shows both the large and the small blowers and explains how all new Combustion Blowers are now Permanently Sealed and DO NOT require oil any more!!

So I guess this settles the problem. Apparently Fasco sealed the Combustion fans because the very fine pellet dust got into the motor causing premature failure!! Now that could be why the Combustion Fan slowed down and accumulated all the creosote!!

Oiling the pellet dust inside the blower would cause a sticky wicket. LOL

 
Don2222 said:
Hello

Here is a video that Dave made from Wood Heat Stoves & Solar on Whitfield Combustion Blowers.

He shows both the large and the small blowers and explains how all new Combustion Blowers are now Permanently Sealed and DO NOT require oil any more!!

So I guess this settles the problem. Apparently Fasco sealed the Combustion fans because the very fine pellet dust got into the motor causing premature failure!! Now that could be why the Combustion Fan slowed down and accumulated all the creosote!!

Oiling the pellet dust inside the blower would cause a sticky wicket. LOL



That is why oil ports frequently have covers.

But if the unit has the ports they need regular oiling otherwise the bearings will dry out such as they are.

You can even fix those motors that have been gunked up.

It is even possible that the 'sote shown there is due to obstructions further up the vent as anything that interferes with the air flow can cause the 'sote to get deposited where it normally would not.
 
Yes, my new motor shouldn't have the issue because it doesn't require oiling. Thrilled about that.

There shouldn't be any clogs further up the pipe. It's a fairly new stove pipe (as of a few months).
 
This posting is old. Had the same fasco fan in stove st croix. The packing material inside the sealed case around bearing dried out and fan would not spin at low rpm. Oil it. Top bushing/bearing is easy to get to. The bottom one woul be easy with a prescsion oiler. Don,t even bother taking it apart. The packing matering is a foam type sponge, heard of motors packed with saw dust. The bushings are held in place by a ste of fingers with a preload. If you need to take of the fan blade. Put to motor on something soft fan blade up and tap the shaft with a drift. The fan will bounce off. Pretty cool trick. Takes a few shots. Use a small hammer. Sand the shaft down.
 
susb8383 said:
Hi,

I read some posts on this forum that said for oiling the combustion fan (I have a Whitfield Advantage Plus) you could use 3-in-1 oil in the blue can. So the next time I saw this at the hardware store, I bought it and tried it.

It's probably the only piece of bad advice I've gotten on this forum.

I put 2 drops in each hole and replaced the plug.

A few weeks later I removed the fan to do some cleaning.

All over the fan and the housing was a layer of shiny black stuff. It looked like it would be wet and gooey, but it was totally dry. It definitely had no lubricating properties whatsoever.

I will mention that at the same time, I had a problem with my stove getting really hot due to the auger motor having too high an RPM, so my stove probably got hotter than it should have. Maybe that's why, but it was a total mess. I'll attach some pictures.

So I'll never do that again. I noticed after the fact that they recommend an oil right on the label of the motor. Can't tell you what it is because I replaced the motor and the new one does not require oiling.

Just wanted to post this in case it's helpful.

--Susie

fan.jpg

housing.jpg

That maybe from a bad burning stove, i don't think oil will help that creosote from forming
 
Definatly creosote. Clean the stove. The video just before this posting shows the same exact combustion setup ,minus housing, as my stove. They definatly need oil. Mine dried out and would not fuction on the lower speeds. I will get tome high temp turbine oil thats to th e previous posts. That is synthetic and definatly high tempeture.
 
Yep this thread is from back in June and the OP said
he replaced the fan so no point in rehashing it and
beating him up all over again.
 
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