Soapstone owners... fill me in

gdk84 said:

My Brother has a hearthstone mansfield soapstone. It is a great looking unit, works as advertized other than being on his 3rd stove under warrenty because of cracked stones (all the way through) and other shotty workmanship. But thats neither here nor there, many people are happy with them. But when you think about it 35 pounds of wood of the same species loaded into a cast, steel or soapstone is going to net the same BTU ratings no matter what type of stove and is going to give you that amount of heat. Its how the heat is stored and realised that is different. Sure there are other things like stove effieciency that can make a difference, but most modern day units are pretty darn good somwhere in the range of 75-80 percent area. Its all on personal needs and likes/dislikes... and of coarse cost.

Click to expand...

Not true at all! 35 pounds of wood in two different stoves can indeed give off different amounts of heat; that is, usable heat inside the home. Case in point; our present stove uses about 50% of the amount of wood we used to burn and we stay a whole lot warmer. Same type of wood and all wood has been dried for many years. Methinks you will also find variances in present day EPA stoves.

Clearances are much different between Hearthstone and Woodstock.

Clearance to combustible for the back of the stove:

Heritage: 16"
Heritage w/heat shield: 6"

Fireview: 30"
Fireview w/heat shield: 18"

Front clearances on the Fireview are shorter since there is no front loading option, but, for me at least, that additional 12-14" made a huge difference. (which is why I am hoping the new stove has closer clearance)

Also, Woodstock stoves are side load only. This may also limit your flexibility when installing the stove. Some people have their stoves set in to their fireplace and most fireplaces will not accommodate a side loading stove.

Backwoods Savage said:

gdk84 said:

My Brother has a hearthstone mansfield soapstone. It is a great looking unit, works as advertized other than being on his 3rd stove under warrenty because of cracked stones (all the way through) and other shotty workmanship. But thats neither here nor there, many people are happy with them. But when you think about it 35 pounds of wood of the same species loaded into a cast, steel or soapstone is going to net the same BTU ratings no matter what type of stove and is going to give you that amount of heat. Its how the heat is stored and realised that is different. Sure there are other things like stove effieciency that can make a difference, but most modern day units are pretty darn good somwhere in the range of 75-80 percent area. Its all on personal needs and likes/dislikes... and of coarse cost.

Click to expand...

Not true at all! 35 pounds of wood in two different stoves can indeed give off different amounts of heat; that is, usable heat inside the home. Case in point; our present stove uses about 50% of the amount of wood we used to burn and we stay a whole lot warmer. Same type of wood and all wood has been dried for many years. Methinks you will also find variances in present day EPA stoves.

Click to expand...

In what type of stove? A Pre-EPA stove?

Cuz, I am using a Cat stove, a Non-Cat EPA stove and a Pre-EPA stove. The cat stove might be a little more efficient than the non-cat, but not by 50%. Not even close.

Both the Cat and Non-cat stove are far more efficient than the Pre-EPA stove I run.

Backwoods Savage said:

gdk84 said:

My Brother has a hearthstone mansfield soapstone. It is a great looking unit, works as advertized other than being on his 3rd stove under warrenty because of cracked stones (all the way through) and other shotty workmanship. But thats neither here nor there, many people are happy with them. But when you think about it 35 pounds of wood of the same species loaded into a cast, steel or soapstone is going to net the same BTU ratings no matter what type of stove and is going to give you that amount of heat. Its how the heat is stored and realised that is different. Sure there are other things like stove effieciency that can make a difference, but most modern day units are pretty darn good somwhere in the range of 75-80 percent area. Its all on personal needs and likes/dislikes... and of coarse cost.

Click to expand...

Not true at all! 35 pounds of wood in two different stoves can indeed give off different amounts of heat; that is, usable heat inside the home. Case in point; our present stove uses about 50% of the amount of wood we used to burn and we stay a whole lot warmer. Same type of wood and all wood has been dried for many years. Methinks you will also find variances in present day EPA stoves.

Click to expand...

Wood no matter what species have X amount of BTU's per cord or however you want to calculate it. Just like there is X amount of BTU's per gallon of propane or fuel oil. That figure does not change... Unless you add gas to your fire. What does matter is your stove. Just want to make sure we are on the same page, and that doesnt really pertain to a soapstone, cast or steel unit. One could be more effieceint than the other and so forth. The way it is released is for sure different. Its a hard argument for sure that always gets attention... Like i said its all on ones needs I think...

I am pretty sure my non-cat Englander 30 will burn almost 50% more wood than my Woodstock Keystone which is a cat stove.

But then again, the Englander's fire box is double the Keystone's.......

Bill

BeGreen said:

I disagree as long as we are talking achieving and maintaining the same room temperature. That will require a partial loading of the Englander vs a possible full load at a lower burn in the Keystone. But properly run, both should consume about the same amount of wood to keep the room at an equal temp over a 24 hr period. This is not to dis the cat stove. In mild weather it should need less refills because it can burn a full load at a much lower level once the cat has lit off. Fast forward to winter burning and this becomes a moot point.

Click to expand...

Ahhh just thinking about this winter has me looking forward to filling my 3 cu ft firebox full of Hickory/Oak and waking up to a house much warmer than I was used to with my Dutchwest.........Brings a smile to my face every time I think about it. Woops wrong thread to post that on now back to the merits of soapstone.....

My Hearthstone Homestead burned through 4 cords per year in this house. After switching to a similar sized fire box Woodstock Fireview I averaged 3 cords per year and I was much warmer. 25% firewood savings adds up over the years and makes a difference if you have to scrounge or buy your wood. 50% firewood savings is really pushing an EPA cat vs non cat but 15-30% is realistic in my experience.

As far as burn times go, I was lucky to get a 8-9 hour burn with good dry hardwood from the Homestead, more like a 6-8 hour burn. I got consistantly easy 12hr burns from the Fireview. Even the smaller Keystone can go 10-12 hours on a full load. I almost upgraded from the Homestead to the Mansfield and I think it would of produced the burn times I wanted but I bet I would of burned more wood. Not trying to dis the Hearthstones, I like the looks of all those rocks but the Woodstock stoves just fit my needs better than the Hearthstone did.

I have a Hearthstone Heritage, and I am well pleased with it. I had a Vermont Castings Encore with a cat, and I was very well pleased with it as well.

My next stove purchase will be a Blaze King, because it is the perfect wood stove, burns for days without any smoke ever, uses so little wood that now and again you have to take some out, and even a small one will heat a Wisconsin barn, even with the door open so the cows can wander in and out. Or so I often read right here on this forum.

I have a Hearthstone Mansfield. We went with the Hearthstone because we wanted, (and paid) for the look of it. My wifes one condition on a stove was that it looked good even without a fire. I also got it on clearance and got a pretty resonable price. Prior to the purchase I had always admired the look of them when I went to the stove store, now I only have to go to the family room !

One other advantage that I have found with the big rock, I can get the rock up to temperature with more or less kindling, and a couple small logs, and let it radiate the heat for many hours even whithout a fire in it, during the shoulder season.


Shawn

Milt said:

I have a Hearthstone Heritage, and I am well pleased with it. I had a Vermont Castings Encore with a cat, and I was very well pleased with it as well.

My next stove purchase will be a Blaze King, because it is the perfect wood stove, burns for days without any smoke ever, uses so little wood that now and again you have to take some out, and even a small one will heat a Wisconsin barn, even with the door open so the cows can wander in and out. Or so I often read right here on this forum.

Click to expand...

If I'm not mistaken, the dealer also begins returning your purchase price, with interest, in monthly payments beginning 12 months after you purchase the stove. When you've been fully reimbursed, his wife comes over and cooks dinner for you and your family.

There is no more obvious use of advanced alien technology than the BK. Don't eat that dinner. You know what happens next. . .

BrowningBAR said:

Backwoods Savage said:

gdk84 said:

My Brother has a hearthstone mansfield soapstone. It is a great looking unit, works as advertized other than being on his 3rd stove under warrenty because of cracked stones (all the way through) and other shotty workmanship. But thats neither here nor there, many people are happy with them. But when you think about it 35 pounds of wood of the same species loaded into a cast, steel or soapstone is going to net the same BTU ratings no matter what type of stove and is going to give you that amount of heat. Its how the heat is stored and realised that is different. Sure there are other things like stove effieciency that can make a difference, but most modern day units are pretty darn good somwhere in the range of 75-80 percent area. Its all on personal needs and likes/dislikes... and of coarse cost.

Click to expand...

Not true at all! 35 pounds of wood in two different stoves can indeed give off different amounts of heat; that is, usable heat inside the home. Case in point; our present stove uses about 50% of the amount of wood we used to burn and we stay a whole lot warmer. Same type of wood and all wood has been dried for many years. Methinks you will also find variances in present day EPA stoves.

Click to expand...

In what type of stove? A Pre-EPA stove?

Cuz, I am using a Cat stove, a Non-Cat EPA stove and a Pre-EPA stove. The cat stove might be a little more efficient than the non-cat, but not by 50%. Not even close.

Both the Cat and Non-cat stove are far more efficient than the Pre-EPA stove I run.

Click to expand...

In the one I quoted in our house, yes, the old stove was non-EPA; a big old Ashley.

BeGreen said:

Have to agree. There may be some exceptions, but in my experience the variances in wood consumption between EPA stoves is not large, especially when the stove is being pushed for heat in the cold weather. A more likely variable would the the intensity of wind or temps. Dennis, did some other things changed around the time of the switch like better caulking and leak sealing?

Click to expand...

BG, nothing else changed for heating except a new SS chimney. However, we've made some drastic changes this summer and I'm anxious to see what difference this will make and will report what happens.

gdk84 said:

Backwoods Savage said:

gdk84 said:

My Brother has a hearthstone mansfield soapstone. It is a great looking unit, works as advertized other than being on his 3rd stove under warrenty because of cracked stones (all the way through) and other shotty workmanship. But thats neither here nor there, many people are happy with them. But when you think about it 35 pounds of wood of the same species loaded into a cast, steel or soapstone is going to net the same BTU ratings no matter what type of stove and is going to give you that amount of heat. Its how the heat is stored and realised that is different. Sure there are other things like stove effieciency that can make a difference, but most modern day units are pretty darn good somwhere in the range of 75-80 percent area. Its all on personal needs and likes/dislikes... and of coarse cost.

Click to expand...

Not true at all! 35 pounds of wood in two different stoves can indeed give off different amounts of heat; that is, usable heat inside the home. Case in point; our present stove uses about 50% of the amount of wood we used to burn and we stay a whole lot warmer. Same type of wood and all wood has been dried for many years. Methinks you will also find variances in present day EPA stoves.

Click to expand...

Wood no matter what species have X amount of BTU's per cord or however you want to calculate it. Just like there is X amount of BTU's per gallon of propane or fuel oil. That figure does not change... Unless you add gas to your fire. What does matter is your stove. Just want to make sure we are on the same page, and that doesnt really pertain to a soapstone, cast or steel unit. One could be more effieceint than the other and so forth. The way it is released is for sure different. Its a hard argument for sure that always gets attention... Like i said its all on ones needs I think...

Click to expand...

I fully agree that there are only so may btu's of heat in a log; but what happens to those btu's?

One factor is how much heat goes up the chimney. If one stove heats the chimney or flue up to, say 500 degrees and the other heats it to 300 degrees, then what happens to that other 200 degree temperature? I say that becomes usable heat inside the house and therefore can be a huge difference.

Dan, I did not know that, and I will add it to my list of reasons for persuading my wife that we really need a steel stove instead of this pile of polished rocks. Den, I suspected that alien technology was involved, but had not seen it in print until now. I learn so much on the Forum. ;-)

Milt said:

I have a Hearthstone Heritage, and I am well pleased with it. I had a Vermont Castings Encore with a cat, and I was very well pleased with it as well.

My next stove purchase will be a Blaze King, because it is the perfect wood stove, burns for days without any smoke ever, uses so little wood that now and again you have to take some out, and even a small one will heat a Wisconsin barn, even with the door open so the cows can wander in and out. Or so I often read right here on this forum.

Click to expand...

Holy cat scat! Now I want one too. No more cold hands on those teats.

Backwoods Savage said:

Milt said:

I have a Hearthstone Heritage, and I am well pleased with it. I had a Vermont Castings Encore with a cat, and I was very well pleased with it as well.

My next stove purchase will be a Blaze King, because it is the perfect wood stove, burns for days without any smoke ever, uses so little wood that now and again you have to take some out, and even a small one will heat a Wisconsin barn, even with the door open so the cows can wander in and out. Or so I often read right here on this forum.

Click to expand...

Holy cat scat! Now I want one too. No more cold hands on those teats.

Click to expand...

Bet the cows would pitch in and buy you one ;-)

shawneyboy said:

One other advantage that I have found with the big rock, I can get the rock up to temperature with more or less kindling, and a couple small logs, and let it radiate the heat for many hours even whithout a fire in it, during the shoulder season.


Shawn

Click to expand...

This is our shoulder season routine as well. We have many months of cool temperatures that will drop the house into the 60 degree range without a little bit of added heat but not as much added heat as a coninuous fire would put out. I think the stone stove is really superior for these conditions since you can heat it up to say 250 with a few sticks and it will stay that hot for a long time as it slowly releases that heat back into the room. A steel stove would flash hot and then flash cold making the room temps very peaky.

With regards to efficiency of the non-cat vs. cat. The cat wins and you might save a cord, that's not really a big deal to me. The reason the cat wins is that the non-cat is very inefficient sending lots of heat up the flue. I measure actual flue temps at 750 or so for the majority of the burn. The flue temps are hot and the amount of hot 750 degree air rushing up the flue is high since the non-cats operate by sending lots and lots of uncontrollable air through the firebox. That's lot's of btus that are not heating my home and that is where the extra cord goes.

shawneyboy said:

One other advantage that I have found with the big rock, I can get the rock up to temperature with more or less kindling, and a couple small logs, and let it radiate the heat for many hours even whithout a fire in it, during the shoulder season.


Shawn

Click to expand...

Pretty much describes what I do in the shoulder season . . . more or less . . . burning my chunks, punks and uglies . . . one fire and then I just let the heat radiate off the stove . . . of course this is with a big chunk of cast iron . . . may not stay as warm as long . . . but it does the job.

I think Dennis and Highbeam make a great point about flue temps. I have also noticed my non cats burned hotter flues than my cat stoves. This is an advantage during shoulder seasons and lower burns but once the cold weather hit's you need to burn hotter and both stoves are about equal in efficiency. One other difference between Hearthstone and Woodstock is stone thickness. Hearthstone has a thicker top 1 1/4" I believe? Woodstock is only 3/4" on top, probably why the overfire temps are 100 degrees higher. I also wonder if the thicker Hearthstone top could be another reason for hotter flue temps?

I also think radiant soapstone stoves have a different feel than any other type of stove out there. IMO it falls somewhere in between a steel/cast radiant and steel/cast convection stove. Some call it soft or gentle heat, I call it just right.

Highbeam said:

shawneyboy said:

One other advantage that I have found with the big rock, I can get the rock up to temperature with more or less kindling, and a couple small logs, and let it radiate the heat for many hours even whithout a fire in it, during the shoulder season.


Shawn

Click to expand...

This is our shoulder season routine as well. We have many months of cool temperatures that will drop the house into the 60 degree range without a little bit of added heat but not as much added heat as a coninuous fire would put out. I think the stone stove is really superior for these conditions since you can heat it up to say 250 with a few sticks and it will stay that hot for a long time as it slowly releases that heat back into the room. A steel stove would flash hot and then flash cold making the room temps very peaky.

With regards to efficiency of the non-cat vs. cat. The cat wins and you might save a cord, that's not really a big deal to me. The reason the cat wins is that the non-cat is very inefficient sending lots of heat up the flue. I measure actual flue temps at 750 or so for the majority of the burn. The flue temps are hot and the amount of hot 750 degree air rushing up the flue is high since the non-cats operate by sending lots and lots of uncontrollable air through the firebox. That's lot's of btus that are not heating my home and that is where the extra cord goes.

Click to expand...

Don't mean to step on any toes but that seems like a fairly inaccurate statement to say that they are very inefficient when the actual efficiency difference is probably something like 10-12% and the average user will see somewhere around a 1/4-1/2 of a cord more wood consumption using a non cat.