Insurance Agent Yucks re: New Stove

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littlalex

littlalex

Member
Oct 6, 2007
124
Hewitt, NJ
Greets All - I hope this is not off topic, but it didn't seem to belong in the ash can forum and this is about my experience in getting and installing a new stove to replace an inplace older one.

It finally dawns on me that I'd better call my insurance agent to ask if my planned new stove (nc-13) will affect my rates or did I need some kind of inspection, etc.

Agent Steve (our local guy) says after lots of obfuscation (Is it really the job of insurance people to never give you a clear and straight answer so they've always got an out?) that I will need my "contracter." to fill out some forms which they will look over. I tell him that contractor is a little vague for me (contractor seems to be just about anyone who does anything for anybody) and does he mean a certified installer, an inspector from the town, the local fire people, etc. He responds with "I certainly don't mean an electrician." Thanks, real helpful but not exactly clarifying. I'm starting to loose my stuff so I just ask him (politely) if he can send me the forms (they've got to have more info than he's giving me) and he tells me he'll send me the forms after the work is done...

I guess it's possible that I'm being obtuse and just don't know it...I can be ornery (shrug). We' have paid this company multiple 10's of thousands of dollars in premiums over the years.

I'm working here without a net financially; my wife and I can't afford to try to get through another winter with our oil (gd I hate the smell of #2 oil) furnace at $4+ a gallon (we're still trying to catch up from last winters $3+ oil).

Let's see, get a pro to do the install with money I don't have (It's literally dropping the stove on the hearth and connect one piece of stove pipe and a 6 to 8 increaser) or take a chance on DIY and if something should happen I've blown my coverage and hello..living in a car for two seniors.

Has anyone here changed insurers because of a stove setup and how much of a hassle was it?

I know this is whiny but I don't want to yell at the wife.

Thanks for listening,
Littlalex
 
You could call the main office of your insurance company as an anonymous person and ask the questions. That way you might get more info.
 
Pull a building permit and do the install yourself. Sign off on any installation paperwork the insurance company gives you (you as the installer), and enclose of a copy of the permit verifying it was inspected by a licensed code official.
 
Many in the insurance agency are idiots.

I've told this before but I'll tell it again. My grandmother decides to switch insurance companies last year after nearly a lifetime with one company. New guy comes out and says "Mam, everything except for the wood stove looks great. I'm afraid you'll have to install a proper hearth pad under your stove and then you'll be good to go with us." Gram replies "What's wrong with my setup? It's in the basement. My husband installed it over 30 years ago and we've never had a single incident" To save time I'll say that he goes on trying to sound intelligent explaining what a hearth pad is / should be when gram abruptly stops him and says "Dear, that basement floor is concrete and those floor tiles are asbestos." He replies, "OK then, guess you're good to go. Welcome to XXXXX insurance."

I'm with Traveler's insurance and very happy. When I've had things like this come up in the past I switch companies. If they are going to be this damn ignorant now, how would they be if you had an actual claim?

If you follow all local codes, build everything taking pictures proving you've met your stove / local requirements, have a local official / fireman sign off on it, they and you should have nothing to worry about.

pen
 
a little OT....I buy what little oil I use from a third party place on the internet. No burner service or automatic fill--I call them when I want a delivery. Looks like they deliver to NJ for $3.21 gal. Not great, but not $4+, and heading downward. IF you can't google something similar, PM me for the name.

Oh yeah, and the truck that delivers the oil has the SAME name of my old company on it, that was charging me $0.60 more per gallon.
 
Around here (Ontario) the Ins co requires a WETT certificate before they will insure a woodstove. We use State Farm and the only thing they did was ask for the WETT cert and tell me there was a $40.00 per year premium for each wood burning appliance.

Is your Ins guy a broker or agent of one co.? I've dealt with brokers before and found most of them very vague on detailed questions, seemingly because they have to check with the multiple companies they carry (or just don't know every company's rules.

My rule of thumb for this kind of crap - get them to send you the requirements in writing (even an email) and comply if you can/want to. If they won't do that, go find another company.
 
I went through the same thing when I bought my stove last year. I called my insurance agent and they told me I didn't have to do anything at all, not trusting them I called the insurance company directly. Sure enough they had a form I needed to fill out and also required that my install be inspected to make sure all clearances were met. They told me that an inspection by my local fire department would satisfy the requirement.

Called the fire department, the two guys that came over didn't really now all that much about woodstoves, except how to put out a chimney fire, but they took measurements and filled out their form. They didn't pass me the first time because the feed line from the oil tank went up the basement wall, across a floor joist, down the chimney and into the furnace. They thought if I ever had a chimney fire the line could get hot enough to explode, causing the oil to ignite. I called the guy who cleans my furnace every year and he said it was the stupidest thing he had ever heard and if the copper line got hot enough the oil would just go back into the tank. I didn't have much choice so I paid him $100 to come over and move the line so it wasn't coming down the chimney.

Fire department came back, signed off on their inspection, I scanned it along with the insurance form all filled out and emailed it to the woman directly at the insurance company. She thanked me and said I was all set to use my stove. All in all not to bad to have the piece of mind that I'll be covered if anything were to happen.
 
Gentlepeople - Thanks for all the info.

Duh, of course...I'll call the Ins. company, get the form, call the town and ask about requirements or building permit.

Do the deed and have whoever the town uses to OK the job (this is a big wood burning place, up here in the land of septics and no NG lines), building inspector or firepeople (hell my new certified sweep is a fireman in
the station a mile or down the road) give me the thumbs up and have them or me fill out the form. Hell, if the terrible happened who would have the biggest word over the fire responders?

Thanks forum, you've made my day if not my week...buying the stove on Wednesday.

Cheers all,
Littlalex
 
I had to educate my insurance agent when I installed my Keystone last year. The guy had never seen a modern woodstove, only the old smoke dragons. He was telling me I need 36 inches all round from combustables - yikes! I was nice about it and after it was all over, my agent was asking my advice about stove installs.

Good luck,
Bill
 
leeave96 said:
I had to educate my insurance agent when I installed my Keystone last year. The guy had never seen a modern woodstove, only the old smoke dragons. He was telling me I need 36 inches all round from combustables - yikes! I was nice about it and after it was all over, my agent was asking my advice about stove installs.

Good luck,
Bill
Click to expand...
That was exactly my experience. Insurance sent out an inspector. He did not have clue. When he found out I was the local fire chief/inspector, he started asking me questions. At least he was intelligent enough to admit he did not know what he was doing. He left and said my install looked really good. It does cost me $40 per year for the free standing stove, nothing for the insert????
 
My insurance company just said to get it inspected, and if the town approved it, it's okay with them. No premium, increase, either.
 
heat seeker said:
My insurance company just said to get it inspected, and if the town approved it, it's okay with them. No premium, increase, either.
Click to expand...

Same here.^ Peice O cake.
 
My insurance just wanted it installed by a professional, I am sure if I did a self install (never even considered it) they would have allowed it with an inspection, as long as it was done correctly. My premium didn't go up at all.


Oh and BTW, welcome to the forum. I do have a OT question, do you have your wood already? If not, you need to get on that right away, and if you are buying it, don't believe it when they tell you it is seasoned.

Shawn
 
Maybe not too helpful since I'm in another country, but................

When I called my insurance broker asking what they needed from me when I swapped out my stove all they wanted was the 2 page "solid fuel heating questionaire" filled out and a couple pictures. No need for an inspection or certified installer. I think the reason they did not need it inspected may have been that we only bought the house 4 years ago and the chimney was inspected by them at that time.
 
littlalex said:
Greets All - I hope this is not off topic, but it didn't seem to belong in the ash can forum and this is about my experience in getting and installing a new stove to replace an inplace older one.

It finally dawns on me that I'd better call my insurance agent to ask if my planned new stove (nc-13) will affect my rates or did I need some kind of inspection, etc.

Agent Steve (our local guy) says after lots of obfuscation (Is it really the job of insurance people to never give you a clear and straight answer so they've always got an out?) that I will need my "contracter." to fill out some forms which they will look over. I tell him that contractor is a little vague for me (contractor seems to be just about anyone who does anything for anybody) and does he mean a certified installer, an inspector from the town, the local fire people, etc. He responds with "I certainly don't mean an electrician." Thanks, real helpful but not exactly clarifying. I'm starting to loose my stuff so I just ask him (politely) if he can send me the forms (they've got to have more info than he's giving me) and he tells me he'll send me the forms after the work is done...

I guess it's possible that I'm being obtuse and just don't know it...I can be ornery (shrug). We' have paid this company multiple 10's of thousands of dollars in premiums over the years.

I'm working here without a net financially; my wife and I can't afford to try to get through another winter with our oil (gd I hate the smell of #2 oil) furnace at $4+ a gallon (we're still trying to catch up from last winters $3+ oil).

Let's see, get a pro to do the install with money I don't have (It's literally dropping the stove on the hearth and connect one piece of stove pipe and a 6 to 8 increaser) or take a chance on DIY and if something should happen I've blown my coverage and hello..living in a car for two seniors.

Has anyone here changed insurers because of a stove setup and how much of a hassle was it?

I know this is whiny but I don't want to yell at the wife.

Thanks for listening,
Littlalex
Click to expand...

Based on the areas in bold, I'd get a new insurance company. You don't need to be talked down to or treated like a child.

I completely relate to not being able to afford to heat the house with oil. I would be looking at a $5,500 - $6,000 heating bill this year if I used oil. Compared to the $960 for wood.
 
Oil man is evil for me.

One thing you cant forget, and more importantly, dont let them forget, they work for YOU! Not the other way. If they get pushy use the overly quoted line of, edcuse me but you understand i can cancel with you and get a new agent in 15 mins.....
 
Well, I'm definitely no expert on anything, but if you have a stove now, and are simply replacing it, as your initial post indicates, why are you worrying about anything at all in the first place???? I mean, are you saying the insurance co. is gonna know that's a new stove?

I would be tempted to just replace the stove, make sure it is safe for my own sake, and keep my mouth shut. Am I an idiot were I to do it that way? My insurance co. knows about our stoves, but they don't have a CLUE what make, model, size, etc. I could switch them out every six months just for the heck of it and they'd never know. It isn't as if you are adding a chimney or tearing out an outside wall to build a fireplace.
 
SteveKG - That was one of my initial thoughts but the more I thought about it it became somewhat clear that the ins. co. maybe/probably has my stove brand and model from the inspection, and should an inferno unfortunately visit my home it's my understanding (not knowledge but my impression) that an inspection by the fire people and/or the ins. adjustor would hardly miss the fact that the new stove (probably one of the few things still standing) made in say 2010 is not the 35+ year old stove that was reported in the initial inspection. Just seems too possible to be a giant OOPS moment where the ins. co. says "sorry, you never told us you installed another stove, I'm afraid that voids your fire ins." Probable, probably not, but I think possible.

Thanks for your idea though...it still is somewhat tempting because the ins. co. (actually the agent covering his a**) really PO'd me.

Littlalex
 
anyone got usaa and if so how was dealing with them about the wood stove?
 
Random thoughts . . .

Based on my parent's experiences with the insurance company and wood heat (OWB actually) I would highly recommend that folks be upfront with insurance companies . . . in my parent's case they failed to mention that they were heating with wood and the insurance company used that fact to deny them the replacement value of their house.

Insurance companies and policies truly do vary -- increased premium or no change in the premium, some companies just give the verbal go-ahead or have you fill out a form vs. other companies that make you jump through a bazillion hoops and inspections.

My own opinion in the OP's original post . . . tell the insurance agent/company you want their requirements in writing and check to see if there is any increase in the premium. If you do not like the requirements start shopping around -- if the requirements seem fair and you've had good luck with them in the past stick with them.
 
When the family cabin was my Grandfather's, there was a potbelly stove in the corner. When my father had it, his insurance company said the stove had to go. So it did. When I inherited it, I asked my insurance company (different than my father's) if they allowed wood stoves in seasonal cabins. They said yes and were cheaper also. So I changed to Liberty Mutual, who only wants it to be inspected. So, I didn't switch because of the stove, but it was a factor in it.

When I built the masonry chimney on the back of my old house LM wasn't concerned about that either since it was inspected.

Matt
 
greythorn3 said:
anyone got usaa and if so how was dealing with them about the wood stove?
Click to expand...

We have USAA. When we bought the house 8 years ago, it had an older smoke dragon. I guess we told them about it when we started the policy. When I replaced the smoke dragon with the Fireview I called and told them I was making the change and asked if there was any information they wanted. they told me that if it was a replacement it was ok. No inspection or documentation was requested. I asked if a stove affected our rate and they said that it did not, but a fireplace would. They explained that a stove is a lower risk because it is closed and logs don't usually roll out of them. The kinda scary part is that the original stove install was not pretty unsafe, but the home inspector didn't say a thing. Knowing what I know now, its lucky that we didn't burn the place down with the old stove. The Fireview is installed safely and correctly now. Back to ins., USAA has always been very easy to deal with.
 
Ah, Gentle folks - It appears I've come to the end of the road in my quest for a new EPA stove.

I was going to order the NC-13 today (Weds) but thanks to my acquired skills as a net security maven I was able to obtain the internal documents used by the company regarding wood stoves.

As the unfriendly agent told me (only not so clearly) the document specifies in no uncertain terms the company policy: You can have a wood stove installed by a professional who must fill out the documents AND the stove MUST NOT be your primary source of heat. If those conditions are not met, your policy will become null and void which I would be notified of of course. Unfortunately my house is in such sorry shape that no other company is going to insure us until we fix the list of required fixes they would hand us (20-30K) that would make it insurable. So much for changing Insurance co.

Sure glad I didn't order that stove.

Now I have to find out how to inspect the old vigilant for cracks and such to be sure it's semi safe and mostly I have to figure out why the handle that allows you to take the stove out of updraft (basically fireplace) mode) where significant heat goes up the chimney to the horizontal mode where it does some gas reburning and uses less wood. I've seen a few related threads that were very helpful and specific about the problem.

Sigh, facing the coming winter with (hopefully) a half tank of #2, A cranky old Vigilant and a couple or three oil filled radiators...it ain't pretty but warm is warm 8^).

Finally, on a non whiny note, I own this dump outright, have an acre of nice property in what I consider the most beautiful (no snickering please) part of of Joisey in what I call the Jersey Alps (just about 60-70 ft lower than High Point), two beautiful double Merle Australian Shepherds (both deaf, but regardless, smarter and sweeter than any pups I've shared my life with - and I've been lucky my whole life in that area); an old lady who still puts up with this old crank for 30+ years and two grown kids doing pretty well (meaning they don't ask us for money). Sheesh, I think I just started my memoir!

And not going anywhere, too much entranced by the burning precious. Thanks for everyone's help...I'll be asking for again, about the old smoke dragon.

Peace,

Littlalex
 
When I switched both houses over to Progressive/Homesite, the whole thing was done via a web questionnaire. Answered "yes" both times to "do you have a wood stove". That was it. Read the policy documents carefully, nothing specific in there about wood stoves. Had Allstate before that, pretty much the same thing. Before that was Geico/Travelers; they wanted a copy of the permits but wouldn't tell me if it would cost more or not until I actually updated the policy. I switched (for lower premiums) instead.
 
littlalex said:
Ah, Gentle folks - It appears I've come to the end of the road in my quest for a new EPA stove.

I was going to order the NC-13 today (Weds) but thanks to my acquired skills as a net security maven I was able to obtain the internal documents used by the company regarding wood stoves.

As the unfriendly agent told me (only not so clearly) the document specifies in no uncertain terms the company policy: You can have a wood stove installed by a professional who must fill out the documents AND the stove MUST NOT be your primary source of heat. If those conditions are not met, your policy will become null and void which I would be notified of of course. Unfortunately my house is in such sorry shape that no other company is going to insure us until we fix the list of required fixes they would hand us (20-30K) that would make it insurable. So much for changing Insurance co.

Sure glad I didn't order that stove.

Now I have to find out how to inspect the old vigilant for cracks and such to be sure it's semi safe and mostly I have to figure out why the handle that allows you to take the stove out of updraft (basically fireplace) mode) where significant heat goes up the chimney to the horizontal mode where it does some gas reburning and uses less wood. I've seen a few related threads that were very helpful and specific about the problem.

Sigh, facing the coming winter with (hopefully) a half tank of #2, A cranky old Vigilant and a couple or three oil filled radiators...it ain't pretty but warm is warm 8^).

Finally, on a non whiny note, I own this dump outright, have an acre of nice property in what I consider the most beautiful (no snickering please) part of of Joisey in what I call the Jersey Alps (just about 60-70 ft lower than High Point), two beautiful double Merle Australian Shepherds (both deaf, but regardless, smarter and sweeter than any pups I've shared my life with - and I've been lucky my whole life in that area); an old lady who still puts up with this old crank for 30+ years and two grown kids doing pretty well (meaning they don't ask us for money). Sheesh, I think I just started my memoir!

And not going anywhere, too much entranced by the burning precious. Thanks for everyone's help...I'll be asking for again, about the old smoke dragon.

Peace,

Littlalex
Click to expand...

Now after admonishing folks in an earlier post to be upfront with their insurance agent I have to engage in a little word play questioning . . .

What would you consider the definition of primary source of heat . . . I mean I suppose in my case I could argue that it could be my woodstove as I use the woodstove for a fair amount of my heating needs . . . or is it my oil boiler which is always on and ready to go whenever the temps in any room dip below 60 degrees?

One wonders which is more of a concern to the insurance company: increased use of the woodstove with an increased risk of a chimney or woodstove-related fire or a concern that folks without a back up heating source may leave the house unheated, causing frozen water pipes to burst? Just playing devil's advocate here.
 
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