New Stove Installed - and I'm not very happy with it

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kingston73

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Feb 10, 2011
172
SE MA
We're getting a new stove installed tomorrow so I'll be able to ask the installer this question, but I wanted to get your opinions on this as well to see what options are available to me. Also, please excuse the diagram that looks like a 3rd grader drew it, I'm clearly not an engineer but I think it will serve to give y'all a visual of my question. My current chimney is an outside 8x8 inner clay lined and approx. 13 feet tall. The old thimble entered the chimney near the floor, it was only about 20 inches from the floor. The current cleanout is outside at ground level, represented by the green square. The new thimble will be installed approx. 5 feet above the floor, and is represented by the black lines. Now my question is this:
if I go with a DIY liner kit (represented in blue) how will I reach the cap to clean it? Will a new clean-out need to be created higher up?

chimneydrawing.gif
 
Extend the liner down below the tee and then cap it at the cleanout door?

PS: With a short, exterior chimney and 2 90 deg turns in the flue path, this sounds like it is going to perform poorly. Did your installer discuss this with you?
 
What stove?
 
Definitely go for the liner.
 
The cross sectional are of a 8*8 is 49" (inside flue is most often 7*7) for a round 6' flue it is 28.3. complications can happen when the larger flue size is heated i can create to much draft and over fire the stove, the opposite problem can occur as well the flu may not get hot enough and smoke has too much time to cool be for exiting the chimney system thus creating creosote. you should have that liner insulated it will perform much better. Ask your installer to create dead air space in the chimney as well sealed at the top and the bottom. As a service company we see may installers ignore this step and it is easy insurance that everything works smoothly
 
Going back to my original question, if I do the liner myself you think the best way will be to extend the liner below the thimble? Would a piece of rigid pipe attach to the tee just like the t-cap does, and the cap attach to the rigid easily?
 
Also, would a 1/4 inch insulation around a 6 inch liner fit in an 8x8 square? Or would it be better to use the pour-in type insulation?

EDIT: I found another thread with a question similar to mine and some suggestions there say just leave the cap on and never take it off. If I did that how would the chimney get cleaned?
 
you can attach rigid esaly, but its not recomeded as it would void the u.l. listing on whatever linner you go with. get a kit slightly largerthen you need and rivit the extraflex to the bottom of the tee. then add another tee to the bootom of that. the bottom tee snout can be cut back and caped of with a tee cover. take any extra insulation(ceramicfiber) and stuff it around the bottom tee. if you have a straight shot then a linner insulated and then wraped in wire mesh to hold it together will fit in a 8*8. we do it all the time. one more point, if you can i recomed going with a smothwall linner, like simpson sw duraflex. it is much esaier to keep clean
 
Yes, I would attach a piece of rigid to the bottom of the tee so it extends down to the top of the clean out door and cap it there. You could also eliminate the clean out but would have to take apart the stove pipe every time you clean the chimney.

If you have the room for the insulation it will help the draft especially with a shorter outside chimney. Take some inside diameter measurements fo your chimney and look up the outside diameter sizes of the liners. Magnaflex makes an insulated liner that I believe is under 7"od that may work.
 
Simpson Duraliner is available, pre-insulated. It is 6.625" OD. I think that would be my first choice is this is a nice straight run down.
 
I'm thinking that Duraliner is just what I need, seems to be the simplest installation for me. The only part I'd have to figure out is what to do about the cleanout. My installer is here today so I'll find out what he says about things after he's done, but it's pretty nice having this forum to get second, third, and fourth opinions from. Thanks all!
 
Duraliner has been a great addition to my F400 in my living room. I thought about using a flex liner and then saw some info on the Duraliner and decided that was best for my situation. Mine goes straight back into the fireplace into a tee and then up about 14' or more. Actually more, as I left the Duraliner sticking out of the chimney by about 3'.

The Duraliner is easy but no so easy as it is heavy - but easy to pop rivet together. I just used some smarts and measured well and supported it with lumber on the bottom while setting the top collar and cap and sealing them. I ran a piece of their oval flex from the top of the tee and through the flue and then the normal Duraliner from there.

What is the distance from the tee to the clean out - about 5 feet? I have a piece that may work for under the tee to the clean out. I actually think i have a few pieces of Duraliner left over if you want to save some $$ on a few parts. I'll take a look and send you a note...or you can let me know...
 
kingston73 said:
I'm thinking that Duraliner is just what I need, seems to be the simplest installation for me. The only part I'd have to figure out is what to do about the cleanout. My installer is here today so I'll find out what he says about things after he's done, but it's pretty nice having this forum to get second, third, and fourth opinions from. Thanks all!
Click to expand...

Worst case scenario you just cap the thimble tee and vacuum it out when cleaning. It's not that big a deal if you choose that route.
 
If I go with the duraliner, how does it connect to my thimble? Or will I need to remove the thimble being installed today and put in a new, duraliner specific one?
 
Good question. I don't have their docs with me right now. Call them or look at the online installation guide. I thought you needed to use their thimble, but could be wrong.
 
I had the same concerns with our liner regarding the cleanout. I ended up eliminating the cleanout below. After sweeping the chimney, I remove the flue pipe and vacuum out whatever was in the chimney. If your burning in a EPA Certified stove and burning seasoned wood buildup should be minimal. I haven't had any issues since eliminating the cleanout. Our chimney is 32' tall and I installed a 22 gauge rigid liner myself. There towards the end it got heavy, but my father built a jig so I didn't have to hold the liner in place while riveting the sections together.
 
Well, the installer got the thimble moved and installed the stove but I'm not very happy with things and won't be using this guy any more. Tell me if I'm being overly critical, and also give me your opinions on what you would do in this situation. I used this guy based on the recommendation from the store we bought the stove from and I couldn't find any reviews of him online good or bad. He's basically a 1 guy company, he's his own boss and manager so there wasn't much I could do as far as calling a company and complaining.

First of all, the clearance from the ceiling to the top of the elbow is only 14 inches, and it's single wall pipe without a heat shield.

Second - the clearance from the back of the stove to the bricks is only 7 inches, the manual says it needs 11 inch clearance to combustibles.

Third, and my biggest issue with the guy - he said the chimney was fine and didn't need cleaning. We've lived here for 2 years now and it hasn't been cleaned since we moved in, so it's been a min. of 3 years since it was cleaned. Based on how long it had been since our furnace was cleaned I highly doubt the former owner had the chimney cleaned the year before we moved in.

So, I'm just going to swallow the install price and look for somebody else to clean it plus give me a second opinion on the installation itself. Below is a picture of the install, it at least looks nice but I'm really not happy with the clearances and especially not happy that he said the chimney's fine. I just can't believe it doesn't need a cleaning, there's no way from all I've read that it's not at least a little dirty. I burned at least a cord and a half last winter through an old, inefficient cast iron stove.

What would you do?
IMG_20110825_164520.jpg
 
Sorry to hear this, sounds like you know more about this stuff than he does. What's behind the bricks?. The 11" measurement should be to the combustible surface behind the bricks if there is anything. You can make a small heat shield with 1" spacer on top of that 90 elbow or use double wall pipe. Did he even look down the chimney?
 
After I posted I looked at some sites and found an elbow heat shield for only $18, so I'll be ordering that and putting that on when it gets here. The bricks are 3.5 inches and the wall is right behind them. From what I've found that brick wall can reduce clearance by about 30%, so the stove clearance is just barely passing. I'm not sure about the stove pipe itself, whether I should get a heat shield for it or not. He never went on the roof so the only part of the flue he looked at was the part he could see through the thimble. It took him 4 hours to move the thimble and get that pipe installed and I felt like he was just tired and wanted to be done with things.

My current clearances: 14 inches from top of elbow to ceiling - plan on getting an elbow heat shield and installing myself
7 inches from rear of stove to brick wall - bricks looked to be directly against wall and are 3.5 inches wide
9 inches from stove pipe to brick wall - should I install a heat shield here also??
 
well, gonna need a shield for that 14" between the pipe and ceiling...18" is the required without shield. the distnace behind the unit should be fine...non-combustable and all. I'm not sure about the cleaning thing. If it was something you had discussed, and was part of the plan, then it should have been done. Even if it wasn't part of the plan, I'd do it.
 
Unfortunately I already paid him, and no, he didn't pull a permit. I called town hall and was told I should come in and fill out the paperwork, I don't know if the woman at town hall knew what she was talking about but I was told I just needed to bring in the stove's manual to show them it was UL listed and I'd get the permit. I've already called a second installer and have them booked to come out and clean as well as double check the safety of the current installation. This is definitely one of those "live and learn" experiences, I should have known not to trust this guy since my dogs didn't like him.
 
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