Update on New EPA Rules

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FyreBug

Minister of Fire
Oct 6, 2010
776
Kitchener, Ontario
This just in this morning from HPBA:

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's (EPA) New Source Performance Standards (NSPS) for New Residential Wood Heaters, also known as the "EPA wood stove certification program,†is the 1988 program that governs emissions for wood-burning appliances and controls the sale and import of wood stoves. In late 2008, EPA began the first revision of the NSPS in 20 years.

The NSPS revisions will impact all wood-burning appliances, expanding the program to include more types of wood-burning appliances than just wood stoves (e.g., pellet stoves, outdoor hydronic heaters, outdoor decorative appliances, masonry heaters, etc.).

The timetable for EPA’s completion of the NSPS has been altered several times, with the latest “soft†targets of early 2012 for the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking or “NOPR" (i.e., the first draft offering by EPA), a comment period to run through 2012, and a Final Rule published in the Federal Register (the official document for federal regulations) in mid-2013. These dates are not firm and subject to change at any time.

The NSPS review continues to involve many difficult technical issues, although much of the work is taking place in private or sidebar conversations. States in the Northeast and the Northwest, represented by their regional organizations, continue to generate new issues and ideas, which require EPA, and consequently HPBA, to respond. HPBA continues to quantitatively and qualitatively demonstrate that the EPA-proposed emissions limits would severely harm the solid-fuel industry. With the inclusion of more products – pellet stoves, fireplaces, masonry heaters, etc. – members will be struggling to survive through extraordinary R&D costs on formerly exempt products. There are also continuing discussions on compliance timelines, testing procedures and variability, category definitions, emissions targets, economic impacts and the future of the EPA voluntary programs.


So it seems, there are no 'firm' dates and definitions yet in place for where the new EPA bar will be set.
 
Practically speaking there will be tighter regulations on the new products. No effective dates yet. A wider scope of products will be included. I do see room for improvement on stoves ETC. I do believe education is the answer; teaching people how to use truly seasoned wood. Why is it important to use dry, clean wood? So you do not pollute your neighbors air. This applies more to city folk but none the less important to those with neighbors within shouting distance... I am probably sounding off base but I believe if more people would think about responsible use of wood we would not have so many against us. :)
 
RNLA said:
Practically speaking there will be tighter regulations on the new products. No effective dates yet. A wider scope of products will be included. I do see room for improvement on stoves ETC. I do believe education is the answer; teaching people how to use truly seasoned wood. Why is it important to use dry, clean wood? So you do not pollute your neighbors air. This applies more to city folk but none the less important to those with neighbors within shouting distance... I am probably sounding off base but I believe if more people would think about responsible use of wood we would not have so many against us. :)

+1

Right now it looks like EPA 'might' favor going to the Washington State level of 4.5g/hr. This is acceptable since most MFG can meet this. However, Lab testing & burning has nothing to do with 'real life' burning. A perfectly good EPA wood stove in the hand of an uneducated or uncaring user can be as bad as the old smoke dragons.

A federal education program with HPBA input along with a 'cash for clunker' type program would be money better invested IMHO.
 
Maybe they will require us to burn factory certified dry wood. No more cut your own!

Bill
 
I say the standards are low enough right now, no sense in destroying more jobs in this fragile economy. I agree there should be more education on proper burning techniques.
 
Washington state guide lines are California standard as far as I know. Most people around here think wood is seasoned when it is cut in June - burned in September. I use to get by with 7-9 month wood and did burn OK; which is to say mostly no smoke. When a proper example is set to a "new" burner it is entirely a face value experience. They need to see it happen in their stove with proper product. When I came here I found out many stoves do burn clean but different areas of the country prefer different stoves based on what they burn. My stove is EPA certified, and designed here in Washington, it happens to burn NW type woods very nicely. I think it will come down to us as wood users to educate our friends and neighbors about how to use. When we help get the word out it will help prevent over regulation. My older neighbor still thinks 6 months in the wood shed is "good" and EPA certified means nothing. Thank goodness he removed his stove several years back. He now wants me to do a gas log because it is "so much easier". I will not until it is illegal to burn in this city.
 
More education is needed for sure but the real question is how do you do that? One can try to educate others but if others do not want to be educated, things will stay the same. We see this happening all the time. All you have to do is look at some posts on hearth.com every year; especially from October through December. Folks who are new tend to listen to Grandpa or Dad who have burned like their Grandpa and this so-called knowledge is passed down and folks would rather believe that than to believe things have changed. We also see it in print very often. Why? Because those doing the printing or writing the articles have "researched" the old literature and then pass the information down.....just like Grandpa did. I wish I had the answer but just not smart enough just yet.

On the other hand, I am happy to see the EPA will be looking at the other type stoves. Some are really terrible.
 
Ratman said:
I agree with the old gentleman.

You must be speaking about Todd.
 
I doubt there will be anything truly major. I get updates from the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality, and if I had to guess, I'd say it will be small changes around the edges. Eliminating exemptions to some degree, and bringing the maximum allowed emissions down a little bit. The worst of the currently allowed stoves drop off the list of approved appliances. Wouldn't affect the vast majority of burners.
 
I'd love to see a stove that can optimize heat output and put out clean emissions from unseasoned wood. This two year seasoning nonsense has got to be addressed by woodburning engineering geniuses. I would love to see a technology that eliminates that need to keep heaps and heaps of wood stacked for years. I know and agree that there is something fantastic about a well seasoned stack of wood, but it would be nice to not have to season your wood if you don't want to.
 
Get a pellet stove. No seasoning. Fuel goes straight from the bag to the stove.
 
Though I'm not one for government regulations I have to say I love the newer stoves. It makes me smile in December talking to the neighbors putting up Christmas lights and they ask "have you used your wood stove yet?"

Maybe the new regulations have less to do with the appliance and more with fuel as some mentioned. You must watch John and Vanessa video before purchasing. I can't say I'd be upset if they lessen the exceptions and get stricter on the smoke dragons. There are several places I travel through weekly that the wood smoke is really dense and gives me a headache.

It would be interesting if they started to regulate wood suppliers as far as what they sell as "seasoned". Guess this is why Woodstock Soapstone is working on the latest project to stay ahead of the game.
 
DaFattKidd said:
I'd love to see a stove that can optimize heat output and put out clean emissions from unseasoned wood. This two year seasoning nonsense has got to be addressed by woodburning engineering geniuses. I would love to see a technology that eliminates that need to keep heaps and heaps of wood stacked for years. I know and agree that there is something fantastic about a well seasoned stack of wood, but it would be nice to not have to season your wood if you don't want to.

We saw something at the HPBA conference in SLC, I was really impressed with. It's an indoor wood chip boiler that allows you to burn 'junk' wood, branches and all, old grain in short anything that will burn as long as it's below 35 % humidity! I actually picked up some of the stuff it was burning in my hands and it felt moist.

To me that would answer most of a Woodburner issues. All you need is a chipper - chips dry a lot faster than logs - no more bucking, Splitting, cording etc ... It was a thing of beauty. The only downside was the cost.
 
First off, I not have a problem keeping the air clean, at all. I agree 100% with DaFatKit and he says “I’d love to see a stove that can optimize heat output and put out clean emissions from unseasoned wood.†But is not true that the BTU in the species of the type wood burning depends the percentage in the moisture in the wood? More moisture in the wood means less useable BTU’s and more smoke in the air and more creosote in the equipment. It would need gas to burn the wood or an afterburner to keep it clean or the stove may not burn at all.

I got my first home and it was a new home on 1982. It had a mason fireplace and it had a natural gas log lighter. I didn’t keep the place warm with the fireplace. It was for just looks. I would cut oak and spit it and burn it the same day. I live in the Houston area and gas was cheap and nobody cared about smoke. It would burn fine as the gas was burning. Stop the gas and the fire died. I learned it needed dry wood to work or I needed the gas. Fast forward to today.

Now we have a difference home and we use propane. I have an EPA insert and my wood is cured at least 2 - 3 years before it used and it is covered. Before I got the insert, we used about 600 – 700 gallons a year to heat the place. Last year, it took about 120 gallons to keep the place warm (we use the oven and hot water). We saved about $1200 - $1400 last year. I think we used about 4 cords of oak. Propane with never grow to new propane. That oak will grow from acorns from trees and the trees will grow and the trees will grow.

There is just about having a insert but we really like to keep warm and we need the earth needs to be clean too. I don’t want to deal with the wood heater police and if ‘they’ must check my wood or if my fire is too smoggy or pay a permit. I am retired and every penny counts. . I can’t keep all the world problems, BUT since I am still a noobie with a wood heater I believe if I can burn wood the right way if I the use the right wood, keep my wood dry and cured, if I not over fire my stove and keep it clean and use it with a good EPA heater I can do my part.
 
FyreBug said:
DaFattKidd said:
I'd love to see a stove that can optimize heat output and put out clean emissions from unseasoned wood. This two year seasoning nonsense has got to be addressed by woodburning engineering geniuses. I would love to see a technology that eliminates that need to keep heaps and heaps of wood stacked for years. I know and agree that there is something fantastic about a well seasoned stack of wood, but it would be nice to not have to season your wood if you don't want to.

We saw something at the HPBA conference in SLC, I was really impressed with. It's an indoor wood chip boiler that allows you to burn 'junk' wood, branches and all, old grain in short anything that will burn as long as it's below 35 % humidity! I actually picked up some of the stuff it was burning in my hands and it felt moist.

To me that would answer most of a Woodburner issues. All you need is a chipper - chips dry a lot faster than logs - no more bucking, Splitting, cording etc ... It was a thing of beauty. The only downside was the cost.


What's the brand name and how much?
 
DaFattKidd said:
I'd love to see a stove that can optimize heat output and put out clean emissions from unseasoned wood. This two year seasoning nonsense has got to be addressed by woodburning engineering geniuses. I would love to see a technology that eliminates that need to keep heaps and heaps of wood stacked for years. I know and agree that there is something fantastic about a well seasoned stack of wood, but it would be nice to not have to season your wood if you don't want to.

It sounds like you may be interested in one of those OWB! People like to brag that they can burn green wood....and they will. They have a fan for draft and they will burn some terrible wood. However, that comes at a big expense. For example, I know of more than one parties that went that route and they also find that it takes double the amount of wood to give the same heat. Not everyone is willing to put up or buy that much wood. Better is to go the other way. We put in a new stove and burn half the amount of wood we used to....not double the amount.
 
I am also submitting some proposed rulemaking to the Federal Register-

My proposal is going to address the fact that the EPA has too much time on their hands and should leave us the hell alone. Public comment begins upon my post showing on Hearth.com
 
Remkel said:
I am also submitting some proposed rulemaking to the Federal Register-

My proposal is going to address the fact that the EPA has too much time on their hands and should leave us the hell alone. Public comment begins upon my post showing on Hearth.com

If you've ever seen an inversion in an area with lots of old stoves, you'd change your mind. It gets BAD.
 
Amen. It got so bad up in Darrington, WA that they will pay you to get rid of your old smoke dragon.
 
Backwoods Savage said:
DaFattKidd said:
I'd love to see a stove that can optimize heat output and put out clean emissions from unseasoned wood. This two year seasoning nonsense has got to be addressed by woodburning engineering geniuses. I would love to see a technology that eliminates that need to keep heaps and heaps of wood stacked for years. I know and agree that there is something fantastic about a well seasoned stack of wood, but it would be nice to not have to season your wood if you don't want to.

It sounds like you may be interested in one of those OWB! People like to brag that they can burn green wood....and they will. They have a fan for draft and they will burn some terrible wood. However, that comes at a big expense. For example, I know of more than one parties that went that route and they also find that it takes double the amount of wood to give the same heat. Not everyone is willing to put up or buy that much wood. Better is to go the other way. We put in a new stove and burn half the amount of wood we used to....not double the amount.


Yeah, I think I heard someone once mention throwing tires in those things.

But I mean a stove that somehow burns that green wood and turns that crappy smoldering fire into fantastic heat. I know your stove and my stove, the general rules of fire as we know it do not operate that way. I'm just dreaming here. I may as well be talking about flying cars.
 
I don't think it's theoretically impossible to burn green wood efficiently, just impractical enough that we're not likely to see it in residential units. Such a beast would probably need a forced draft, a moisture-tolerant catalytic converter, and a heat exchanger/condenser to reclaim the heat from all the water and excess air as well as a way to drain the condensed water.
 
DiscoInferno said:
I don't think it's theoretically impossible to burn green wood efficiently, just impractical enough that we're not likely to see it in residential units. Such a beast would probably need a forced draft, a moisture-tolerant catalytic converter, and a heat exchanger/condenser to reclaim the heat from all the water and excess air as well as a way to drain the condensed water.

Plumb the condensed water into the irrigation system and use it to water my lawn.
 
As long as we are wishing why dont we wish for something really nice instead of a water burner.
 
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