Heating costs. Is wood really worth it?

mking7 said:

rdust said:

If I had NG available to me I would've probably never looked at wood for heat it would've only been used for fires in my fireplace. I have propane so it's a no brainer for me, even if I had to purchase wood. 4K a year for propain and the pay back happens really quick.

Now that I have heated with wood I'm hooked. If I ever sell this joint the next place will be heated with wood regardless of the type of fuel available to me.

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I probably live in the mildest climate of anyone on here, Central Texas....but we do have a winter that requires heat. I just moved to a home last year that wasn't on a natural gas pipeline feed and am on propane. WOW, what a difference in cost...The coldest winter of the month last year (it was down in the teens at night and the 30's in the day, cold winter for us), I burned 200 gallons of propane in 4.5 weeks. $550 to refill. I can buy the entire winter's wood for that. And I can cut much of what I need but if it was buy only, it's still a winner for me. Our winters are shorter than many of yours so the payback is longer but knowing that if the power goes out or the propane's empty or the central heat goes out (all three of which happened last winter) I am warm is worth a decent little bit...

The folks that we bought the house from had a wood stove that we thought (and actually still think) was ugly. BUT we were SOOOO happy to have it when it was 18 outside and had no heat. I cook in bbq competitions so I had some hickory out in the shop and we stayed warm off of that for several days. Now we are replacing the stove with something more of the look we like and we are sold on it. If we just break even, it's worth it to me. I keep a fire going all winter anyway, might as well get the heat out of it.

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Out of curiosity, what type of wood do you get in West Texas? Soft (pines) or hard wood? I lived in Arizona for several years and firewood there was expensive in the Phoenix area. Not sure about the Sedona/Flagstaff area.

Pinion wood

if your numbers are correct an electric appliance would cost .20 per million btu of usable heat and wood would be $14.58 per million btu after you figure out heat conversion efficiency. I think some of your numbers are wrong. If not don’t use wood as it would cost 72.9 times more to use wood

The 40 million BTU's it takes to keep this house livable and the pipes unfrozen during heating season is cheapest when I buy them in the form of natural gas and supplement the cold spots with electric heaters. Last year, I used 260 dollars fewer in the form of natural gas and 700 dollars more in the form of cord wood that I had to buy. We are a lot warmer with the stove going and the house is more useable. It is about secondary benefits so far at my house. This winter will be another data point in an ongoing study.

Swedishchef said:

The largest bill I have ever had for a month was $200. And it was C O L D that month. -25C every day.

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200 bucks? that is 1/2 again more than I spent all last season :lol: Doubt I would bother if I had access to that cheap of fuel other than a warm radiant glow source in the house and a if the chit hits the fan stash.

BrowningBAR said:

Out of curiosity, what type of wood do you get in West Texas? Soft (pines) or hard wood? I lived in Arizona for several years and firewood there was expensive in the Phoenix area. Not sure about the Sedona/Flagstaff area.

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Well, in west Texas they have plenty of mesquite but I live in West, Texas which is between Dallas and Austin (just north of Waco) and around here I get a lot of white oak and post oak. We have a family place over in east Texas where there's plenty of pine but I don't burn that except in the campfire if there's nothing else lying around. Plenty of hardwoods there as well. Oaks/hickory/etc.

Living in West, TX is a great conversation starter.

When I said pinion I was kinda being a smart arse. I do like the stuff though in a open fire for it's fragrance. They say it's a natural mosquito repellent when burning. I don't know how well it works.

SolarAndWood said:

Swedishchef said:

The largest bill I have ever had for a month was $200. And it was C O L D that month. -25C every day.

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200 bucks? that is 1/2 again more than I spent all last season :lol: Doubt I would bother if I had access to that cheap of fuel other than a warm radiant glow source in the house and a if the chit hits the fan stash.

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My average electricity bill is $200 and I don't have central air or electric heat.

BrowningBAR said:

SolarAndWood said:

Swedishchef said:

The largest bill I have ever had for a month was $200. And it was C O L D that month. -25C every day.

Click to expand...

200 bucks? that is 1/2 again more than I spent all last season :lol: Doubt I would bother if I had access to that cheap of fuel other than a warm radiant glow source in the house and a if the chit hits the fan stash.

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My average electricity bill is $200 and I don't have central air electric heat.

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Sounds like my bill here in Mass... You must have NStar there too.. I envy those with municipal utilities like several towns and one that abuts my town!

Ray

2000 KWh in ONE month. Holy CRAP! That is about 6 months of electric usage at my house. 2000KwH is about $350 of juice.

Swedishchef said:

hwdemers said:

if your numbers are correct an electric appliance would cost .20 per million btu of usable heat and wood would be $14.58 per million btu after you figure out heat conversion efficiency. I think some of your numbers are wrong. If not don’t use wood as it would cost 72.9 times more to use wood

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My numbers are wrong? Or someone else's...there has been lots of numbers posted here!

A monthly bill for 2000 KWh where I live, including service and delivery fees, would cost 143.31. The largest bill I have ever had for a month was $200. And it was C O L D that month. -25C every day.
See the below link
http://www.hydro.mb.ca/regulatory_affairs/energy_rates/electricity/utility_rate_comp.shtml

I live in Quebec...

ANdrew

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So seems everyone likes burning wood to stay warm,,, i wanna come up with a way to burn wood to run my AC in the summer... thats how much i like it.

Stay warm, save dough, exercise, meet interesting people. Lots of good reasons. But, if our electric rates were that low or we had access to NG, we would burn a lot less wood.

phatfarmerbob said:

So seems everyone likes burning wood to stay warm,,, i wanna come up with a way to burn wood to run my AC in the summer... thats how much i like it.

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It is possible with a gas absorption system such as camper runs the fridge with propane as a heat source..

Ray

Ever hear of anyone doing it?

phatfarmerbob said:

Ever hear of anyone doing it?

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Try googling it I am sure someone has thought of this and has done it or at least tried..

Ray

Well, there is no doubt that my camper refrigerator gets cold, but it is pretty small by comparison to my house.

Milt said:

Well, there is no doubt that my camper refrigerator gets cold, but it is pretty small by comparison to my house.

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I hear that! I would think the system would be large and not very efficient.. I may be wrong but I think my camper fridge uses ammonia for refrigerant which would be very dangerous if it ever leaked.. They get around this by having ventilation to the outside.. Not sure what you could do with this .. I'll stick with electricity!!

Ray

Great discussion here folks. When I was looking to go install a wood stove I looked into this topic/calculation some. And in this "Is it worth it?" quest I found out some things as many of you have already. EVERY situation is different.
Strictly from a money standpoint You need to know how much your current monthly heating bill (electric, NG, propane, etc.) is during the time you could use a wood stove and how many BTU's its worth. You then calculate the equal amount of BTU's needed in wood (hardwood better than softwood generally) and the cost per cord. and there's your general result. Because we all know that no two lengths of wood will burn the same BTU value, we can only generalize.
That's not so bad, but then you add the install cost of a new stove if you had to do so and minus that from your cost saving if any. Personally around where I live people are trading up houses quicker than cars so an install would not pay for its self over such a period of time. (monetarily)
I've looked at online calculations like this one. http://www.travisindustries.com/CostOfHeating_WkSht.asp
but there are so many variables. where you live (on a hill vs in woods is a big diff) the type of house age of house... even age of occupants.. the list goes on. I know my father would burn x3 or x4 times the wood as myself because he has it warm enough to melt the candles on the coffee table!
I think you can only get an estimate by the basic calculation to see if its even worth installing, and after the first year run the naked numbers, did you spend less than before? (install cost can be spread over 5-6 years or not at all)

From my own perspective I know i'll save some money, but I just wanted to get rid of a propane fireplace that was old, and i just didn't like it. So I spent the money and had a nice wood stove installed so during winter I can throw a couple of junks in the box some evenings and weekends and sit back and enjoy.
If you succumb to the "time is money" philosophy of life one is best not getting a stove, its not like that.

Again, great discussion and i'm full of poo.

Perry

Let's see, last time I purchased HHO was back in June....of 09 and I still have about 100 gl in the tank.
The stove an chimney cost a bit over $1000, so in rough numbers it was paid for after the first year. :lol:

So yes for me it's worth it.

I have been fortunate to have been able to scrounge more wood than I can use myself( I have given some away). So wood cost is minimal.

The OP raises a good question, around here if you buy wood it may cost $250-$350/cord.
If you have to pay $350/cord I think you would be unlikely to see much if any savings.

I think my wood stove - located in the basement because thet is where the chimney is - saved about $200 per month last winter on my electricity bill. That is not a big savings compared to some others, but it still add up fast. I am confident that I save money with wood heat. I don't buy wood, so the $200 is not offset much by the cost for wood.

For me it is easy. I used the last 10 years of fuel oil consumption average per month, multiplied it by the going rate per month last year,subtract the nominal amount I did use, and I find I saved $2000 in fuel oil costs over last winter. If the savings are nearly the same for the next 2 heating seasons, my stove and toys will be paid for in 3 years, and from then on it is money in the back yard, er uh... bank. So for me the answer is a big, huge,

HELL YEAH ITS WORTH IT

Shawn