looking for a replacement stove... suggestions?

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sebois

sebois

Member
Oct 19, 2010
28
Maine
I have a Fisher Mama Bear that I have used to heat our 2000sf downstairs area for 7 years. It's not terribly efficient, but it pumps out a lot of heat and is tougher than heck. My family has heated with them for 30 years.

I've decided that I want to replace this stove with something more efficient, but although I have heated with wood my entire adult life I know very little about the current available models. What I would like is something with a glass front that will give me a 9hr burn, put out somewhere in the neighborhood of 50k btus, and "look nice", according to my wife.

Any suggestions on where to begin? As an aside, I have a neighbor who is selling their Jotul Firelight 12, but know very little about that particular brand and model.
 
"Looks nice" may be the deciding factor here. Otherwise, what is the budget? What is the size of the space you are heating? And how flexible is the Mrs.?

Jotul makes great stoves, but I would be looking for the Jotul F600 instead of the F12 if the intent is to get more current with an EPA stove.
 
sebois said:
I have a Fisher Mama Bear that I have used to heat our 2000sf downstairs area for 7 years. It's not terribly efficient, but it pumps out a lot of heat and is tougher than heck. My family has heated with them for 30 years.

I've decided that I want to replace this stove with something more efficient, but although I have heated with wood my entire adult life I know very little about the current available models. What I would like is something with a glass front that will give me a 9hr burn, put out somewhere in the neighborhood of 50k btus, and "look nice", according to my wife.

Any suggestions on where to begin? As an aside, I have a neighbor who is selling their Jotul Firelight 12, but know very little about that particular brand and model.
Click to expand...

Nearly every current EPA stove has a glass front. So, that's an easy requirement to meet.

You are used to a Pre-EPA smoke dragon that cranks the heat (I use a Pre-EPA Vigilant) and heats 2000 sq ft. In my experience, I would go with a 3+ cu ft stove.

The Firelight is a nice stove.

Also look at:
Englander 30NC
Jotul F600
Blaze King King
Pacific Energy Summit
Quadra Fire Isle Royale
Vermont Castings Defiant
Buck 94NC
Hearthstone Mansfield or Equinox
Lopi Liberty
Osburn 2400 (Smaller than 3 cu. ft, but still large)
 
How much do you want to spend? How is your house laid out? How old and well insulated is it? Where do you live? What size and type of chimney do you have?


There's lots of good stoves out there that fit that description. You'll get lots of recommendations from owners who love their stove. Looks like you're going to want at least a 3ft³ firebox. Don't pay much attention to btu ratings from manufacturers. There is no real standard that they follow to come up with them.

Do you want steel, cast, or stone? They all have good points.

And the big question...... cat or non cat? Again, both have advantages. Cats can burn lower and slower when you don't need a lot of heat and still burn clean. Maybe a more steady heat output, especially those with a thermostat. But, the cat does need to be cleaned, and will have to be replaced at some point. Secondary burn tube stoves are more efficient at higher output, maybe a little more of a temp swing through the burning cycle. Maybe a little more tolerant of less than seasoned wood. I would try to stay away from stoves that have a downdraft type of secondary combustion, as those seem to be trickier to run. But you'll hear from happy owners there to.
 
Our house is about 2800sf with the first floor in the 1800sf range. It's a 1975 cape with layout and insulation standards typical of that era, but with updated windows and doors. Chimney is a standard 6".

As we heat solely with wood during the Maine winter months, I think that what I need is something that will really crank the heat when I need it to do so, but will also provide a long, slow burn as well. The Mrs. is flexible on design, but doesn't want to spend more than $1200.

I don't know the differernce in performance between cat and non-cat models (so I should probably start by doing some research), but it sounds like a cat is what I might be looking for . Which type produces less ash?
 
sebois said:
Our house is about 2800sf with the first floor in the 1800sf range. It's a 1975 cape with layout and insulation standards typical of that era, but with updated windows and doors. Chimney is a standard 6".

As we heat solely with wood during the Maine winter months, I think that what I need is something that will really crank the heat when I need it to do so, but will also provide a long, slow burn as well. The Mrs. is flexible on design, but doesn't want to spend more than $1200.

I don't know the differernce in performance between cat and non-cat models (so I should probably start by doing some research), but it sounds like a cat is what I might be looking for . Which type produces less ash?
Click to expand...

That's a big house in a cold area.. With that budget and your heating needs you will need to consider a new Englander NC-30 or perhaps a good deal on a used wood stove .. You will practically need two stoves to heat that much sq. ft. in my opinion especially in Maine.. Good luck and welcome to the forum..

Ray
 
Lopi Liberty. Same "Look" as the stove you have now (Fisher). Step top design, 24" log capacity, glass window, and much more efficient. Over in the Pre EPA room, Forum member "Coaly" desribes it as just that. A Modern Fisher. Many stoves to choose from. Depends on your budget. My buddy has a Liberty. Nice Stove.

EDIT: Just re-read the thread. Saw your $1,200 budget. The Englander 30 is a nice stove too. For the money, the Best you can buy (3.5 cu ft Firebox). It too has a small step top and has a deep box for North/South Loading.. Good luck
 
$1200 is not going to get you a "looks nice" stove unless you buy used. The larger stoves in the $1000 to $1500 price range are plain plate steel workhorses. As others have said, you best bet in this price range is the Englander NC-30 although you may be able to get a big Napoleon or Drolet too (I'm not that familiar with their big stoves). You can do what Brotherbart did and paint the NC-30 to complement the room (he painted his brown as I recall). But the big "nice" stoves (Jotul, Alderlea, Hearthstone, etc.) tend to start at $2500 and go up from there.
 
I'll be curious to see what you find.I have had a bunch of these epa stoves over the past ten years ,and I have yet to find one that will heat like the old Defiant I had.Granted they burn less wood and hold a fire for 3 days,but they just are not the same for heat output.I had the biggest Englander and it woulndt come close to heating my 1800 sq ft 2 story from the basement.I then bought a Harmon tl 300.That thing would heat,but I had issues with the damper /door mechanism jamming and breaking,and it toasted my clay liner it burned so hot ,so I got rid of that.I bought a Thermo Control out of Uncle Henrys,this thing was huge!Before I realized my liner was cracked from the Harmon,I sold it because smoke came out the door when I opened it,and I couldnt have the house smelling like wood smoke.I think I would have kept that stove ,but at the time I didnt know of my chimney problems,and thought it was because I had a 8 inch pipe going a 6 inch flue.I always look up the chimney from the main floor thimble,so I never suspected the chimney to be clogged btween the cellar thimble and the main floor.When I took out the Thermo Control and sold it,I was looking up from down cellar and saw a half of one liner was cracked off and layed side ways across the chimney.No wonder smoke came out the door.at this point I was looking at a Pacific Energy Summit.A couple stove shops said it was the biggest heat output stove that they had,so I bought one.I have had this for two winters,and I am not impressed with it.It is probably fine for most people,but I am not very impressed.I have considered thinking of a wood furnace,but most dont work without power,and that can be a problem here on the coast.I have been on here lurking ,hoping to hear of a big wood stove,but they just dont seem big enough ,it must be the EPA regs wont allow a big stove or there isnt enough call for such a thing.I have been looking at the JA Roby ultimate,but I think I would have to drive to Canada to see one.With what I have spent on stoves since I built this house,I could bought alot of oil,but I like the wood heat,and with oil between 4 and 5 bucks a gallon,wood is the only affordable option.I want to buy something before winter to replace this Summit.If we had winters like we used to I would have to have two of these epa stoves.Good luck and Ill be watching
 
Get that stove out of the basement or insulate the hell out of it.. The Summit should handle that house easily but being in the basement robs lots of heat plus dramatically increases the sq. footage plus increases the heat load.. This is reality...


Good Luck!

Ray
 
traditions said:
I'll be curious to see what you find.I have had a bunch of these epa stoves over the past ten years ,and I have yet to find one that will heat like the old Defiant I had.Granted they burn less wood and hold a fire for 3 days,but they just are not the same for heat output.I had the biggest Englander and it woulndt come close to heating my 1800 sq ft 2 story from the basement.I then bought a Harmon tl 300.That thing would heat,but I had issues with the damper /door mechanism jamming and breaking,and it toasted my clay liner it burned so hot ,so I got rid of that.I bought a Thermo Control out of Uncle Henrys,this thing was huge!Before I realized my liner was cracked from the Harmon,I sold it because smoke came out the door when I opened it,and I couldnt have the house smelling like wood smoke.I think I would have kept that stove ,but at the time I didnt know of my chimney problems,and thought it was because I had a 8 inch pipe going a 6 inch flue.I always look up the chimney from the main floor thimble,so I never suspected the chimney to be clogged btween the cellar thimble and the main floor.When I took out the Thermo Control and sold it,I was looking up from down cellar and saw a half of one liner was cracked off and layed side ways across the chimney.No wonder smoke came out the door.at this point I was looking at a Pacific Energy Summit.A couple stove shops said it was the biggest heat output stove that they had,so I bought one.I have had this for two winters,and I am not impressed with it.It is probably fine for most people,but I am not very impressed.I have considered thinking of a wood furnace,but most dont work without power,and that can be a problem here on the coast.I have been on here lurking ,hoping to hear of a big wood stove,but they just dont seem big enough ,it must be the EPA regs wont allow a big stove or there isnt enough call for such a thing.I have been looking at the JA Roby ultimate,but I think I would have to drive to Canada to see one.With what I have spent on stoves since I built this house,I could bought alot of oil,but I like the wood heat,and with oil between 4 and 5 bucks a gallon,wood is the only affordable option.I want to buy something before winter to replace this Summit.If we had winters like we used to I would have to have two of these epa stoves.Good luck and Ill be watching
Click to expand...

So, does your chimney have a liner in it or not?

How long do you let your wood dry? When do you split and stack your wood?
 
Also the fuel you use has a lot to do with it. Smoke Dragons could burn un -seasoned wood (2 days-2 months drying). New EPA stoves need the Wood to go for about a year (More on some wood, I.E.- OAk needs 3 years for best results) but the average woodpile that only sits for 3 months will have a lot of moisture and put out Zero heat.

Having insulation and the stove where you need the heat helps tremendously. 1,800 sq ft is not a whole lot. In comparison with the size of other peoples home on here that use 100% Wood Heat. For 3 years I used a 47,500 BTU Quadrafire (still gonna use it, just reducing my pellet consumption) to heat my house that over 2,000 sq ft. Now that the Englander is going in the basement (another 2,180 sq ft) I am hoping some heat will make it upstairs, or warm the Hard wood floors at the least. I do not expect it to heat my home from the basement. That is why I still have the Pellet stove.
Some of the stoves that were mentioned should have heated it easily (or one would think). The Summit is a fantastic stove. How long do you let your Wood season? Have you stopped or Lurked in the Wood Shed Forum here? Having an exspensive stove is nice, but if you feed it Wood that is not properly seasoned, it isn't worth the pallet it came on.
Good luck and hope you find a Heater that works in your application.

Sorry to the OP (sebols) for the response to traditions post. I was only answering/questioning the "Hi-Jack"
 
might want to check out the Enerzone 3.4, a great steel woodstove at a reasonable price.
 
traditions said:
I'll be curious to see what you find.I have had a bunch of these epa stoves over the past ten years ,and I have yet to find one that will heat like the old Defiant I had.Granted they burn less wood and hold a fire for 3 days,but they just are not the same for heat output.I had the biggest Englander and it woulndt come close to heating my 1800 sq ft 2 story from the basement.I then bought a Harmon tl 300.That thing would heat,but I had issues with the damper /door mechanism jamming and breaking,and it toasted my clay liner it burned so hot ,so I got rid of that.I bought a Thermo Control out of Uncle Henrys,this thing was huge!Before I realized my liner was cracked from the Harmon,I sold it because smoke came out the door when I opened it,and I couldnt have the house smelling like wood smoke.I think I would have kept that stove ,but at the time I didnt know of my chimney problems,and thought it was because I had a 8 inch pipe going a 6 inch flue.I always look up the chimney from the main floor thimble,so I never suspected the chimney to be clogged btween the cellar thimble and the main floor.When I took out the Thermo Control and sold it,I was looking up from down cellar and saw a half of one liner was cracked off and layed side ways across the chimney.No wonder smoke came out the door.at this point I was looking at a Pacific Energy Summit.A couple stove shops said it was the biggest heat output stove that they had,so I bought one.I have had this for two winters,and I am not impressed with it.It is probably fine for most people,but I am not very impressed.I have considered thinking of a wood furnace,but most dont work without power,and that can be a problem here on the coast.I have been on here lurking ,hoping to hear of a big wood stove,but they just dont seem big enough ,it must be the EPA regs wont allow a big stove or there isnt enough call for such a thing.I have been looking at the JA Roby ultimate,but I think I would have to drive to Canada to see one.With what I have spent on stoves since I built this house,I could bought alot of oil,but I like the wood heat,and with oil between 4 and 5 bucks a gallon,wood is the only affordable option.I want to buy something before winter to replace this Summit.If we had winters like we used to I would have to have two of these epa stoves.Good luck and Ill be watching
Click to expand...

Sounds like your chimney is the main problem not the stoves. The old pre EPA stove were less forgiving on chimneys because they threw twice the heat up there. The new stoves can be finicky if the chimney isn't just right. If you reline it with a 6" insulated liner I bet you would be plesantly surprised.

As far as stoves for the OP, I'm kinda liking the looks of Osburn's. Built nice and stout with a good price.
 
I had to have my chimney lined,and it is a 6 inch insulated liner.I have heated with wood since i was a kid,except the ten years we lived in a trailer where our current house is.I cut my own wood and it is two year dry maple,stacked on double rows withe a space in the middle so both ends are exposed.I have extra wood that are stacked in holzhausens that I only use if wood gets tight.Some years like the winter before last we had a mild winter and the Summit did a OK job,but last winter was colder and you just cant push it hard enough.The coals build up and the temp goes down and there is no room for more wood.The stove is just to small.The cold here on the coast isnt what most people are used to,it can be 35 degrrees out and feel alot colder because of the dampness.Everone says there is a learning curve to these EPA stoves,but the summit is pretty simple,I have tried runnig it wide open,shut down and anything in between. Wood supply is no problem so I am not trying to see how long a cord will go.I just need to find a bigger stove,I mean just look ar the size of these things,and they dont have any air getting into them to let them burn,that's whty the fire last for 3 days.I'm jusy old fashioned I guess
 
I thought the 3 day Fire was sarcasm. But the reference has been used twice now. A Blaze King can't get a 72 hour burn.
Are you really getting 3 days out of 1 load? Seems Preposterous.... Maybe its just me and I know you say your wood is dry, but 3 days.... Seems Fishy (Wet) to me??
 
traditions said:
I had to have my chimney lined,and it is a 6 inch insulated liner.I have heated with wood since i was a kid,except the ten years we lived in a trailer where our current house is.I cut my own wood and it is two year dry maple,stacked on double rows withe a space in the middle so both ends are exposed.I have extra wood that are stacked in holzhausens that I only use if wood gets tight.Some years like the winter before last we had a mild winter and the Summit did a OK job,but last winter was colder and you just cant push it hard enough.The coals build up and the temp goes down and there is no room for more wood.The stove is just to small.The cold here on the coast isnt what most people are used to,it can be 35 degrrees out and feel alot colder because of the dampness.Everone says there is a learning curve to these EPA stoves,but the summit is pretty simple,I have tried runnig it wide open,shut down and anything in between. Wood supply is no problem so I am not trying to see how long a cord will go.I just need to find a bigger stove,I mean just look ar the size of these things,and they dont have any air getting into them to let them burn,that's whty the fire last for 3 days.I'm jusy old fashioned I guess
Click to expand...

Do you have a thermometer on that summit? A Summit does not get a three day burn. Great stove, but a three day burn would require something close to an 8 cu ft firebox run really low.
 
traditions said:
I just need to find a bigger stove
Click to expand...

If you've been through that many stoves trying to heat 1800 sq ft, either the stove is located wrong or the house isn't sealed or insulated properly. How old is your home?
 
laynes69 said:
traditions said:
I just need to find a bigger stove
Click to expand...

If you've been through that many stoves trying to heat 1800 sq ft, either the stove is located wrong or the house isn't sealed or insulated properly. How old is your home?
Click to expand...


I'd check and see if the roof is still there.
 
[/quote]
Sounds like your chimney is the main problem not the stoves. The old pre EPA stove were less forgiving on chimneys because they threw twice the heat up there. The new stoves can be finicky if the chimney isn't just right. If you reline it with a 6" insulated liner I bet you would be plesantly surprised.

As far as stoves for the OP, I'm kinda liking the looks of Osburn's. Built nice and stout with a good price.[/quote]

The Osburn 2300 or 2400 would be a good recommendation. The 2300 has a nice cast iron door with one of the biggest viewing window panes on any EPA stove.

Enerzone 3.4 would also be a good choice.

And the Drolet HT2000 is a humdinger for heat outpupt as well.

Andrew
 
BrowningBAR said:
sebois said:
I have a Fisher Mama Bear that I have used to heat our 2000sf downstairs area for 7 years. It's not terribly efficient, but it pumps out a lot of heat and is tougher than heck. My family has heated with them for 30 years.

I've decided that I want to replace this stove with something more efficient, but although I have heated with wood my entire adult life I know very little about the current available models. What I would like is something with a glass front that will give me a 9hr burn, put out somewhere in the neighborhood of 50k btus, and "look nice", according to my wife.

Any suggestions on where to begin? As an aside, I have a neighbor who is selling their Jotul Firelight 12, but know very little about that particular brand and model.
Click to expand...

Nearly every current EPA stove has a glass front. So, that's an easy requirement to meet.

You are used to a Pre-EPA smoke dragon that cranks the heat (I use a Pre-EPA Vigilant) and heats 2000 sq ft. In my experience, I would go with a 3+ cu ft stove.

The Firelight is a nice stove.

Also look at:
Englander 30NC
Jotul F600
Blaze King King
Pacific Energy Summit
Quadra Fire Isle Royale
Vermont Castings Defiant
Buck 94NC
Hearthstone Mansfield or Equinox
Lopi Liberty
Osburn 2400 (Smaller than 3 cu. ft, but still large)
Click to expand...


Just for the record: Osburn 2400 has a 3.2 cf firebox.
 
I should mention that we keep the stove on the first floor in the main living area rather than the basement, and that our chimney is lined with the standard ceramic rather than a modern steel liner. Also, I can close off about 25% of the downstairs area by closing the french doors that run into the living room, which is an area we hardly ever use.

Thanks for all the advice; I love this website. I'm going to check out the Osburn and Jotul F600, as well as the New Englander series and Lopi Liberty to start. Will keep updating the thread as I do so.
 
DaFattKidd said:
BrowningBAR said:
sebois said:
I have a Fisher Mama Bear that I have used to heat our 2000sf downstairs area for 7 years. It's not terribly efficient, but it pumps out a lot of heat and is tougher than heck. My family has heated with them for 30 years.

I've decided that I want to replace this stove with something more efficient, but although I have heated with wood my entire adult life I know very little about the current available models. What I would like is something with a glass front that will give me a 9hr burn, put out somewhere in the neighborhood of 50k btus, and "look nice", according to my wife.

Any suggestions on where to begin? As an aside, I have a neighbor who is selling their Jotul Firelight 12, but know very little about that particular brand and model.
Click to expand...

Nearly every current EPA stove has a glass front. So, that's an easy requirement to meet.

You are used to a Pre-EPA smoke dragon that cranks the heat (I use a Pre-EPA Vigilant) and heats 2000 sq ft. In my experience, I would go with a 3+ cu ft stove.

The Firelight is a nice stove.

Also look at:
Englander 30NC
Jotul F600
Blaze King King
Pacific Energy Summit
Quadra Fire Isle Royale
Vermont Castings Defiant
Buck 94NC
Hearthstone Mansfield or Equinox
Lopi Liberty
Osburn 2400 (Smaller than 3 cu. ft, but still large)
Click to expand...


Just for the record: Osburn 2400 has a 3.2 cf firebox.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I can never remember on Osburns. The numbering system on Osburns and Napoleons always mess with me.
 
sebois said:
I should mention that we keep the stove on the first floor in the main living area rather than the basement, and that our chimney is lined with the standard ceramic rather than a modern steel liner. Also, I can close off about 25% of the downstairs area by closing the french doors that run into the living room, which is an area we hardly ever use.

Thanks for all the advice; I love this website. I'm going to check out the Osburn and Jotul F600, as well as the New Englander series and Lopi Liberty to start. Will keep updating the thread as I do so.
Click to expand...


You are going to need to insert a liner for a new EPA stove.
 
I like the looks of the Jotul and the Lopi, and the New Englander and Osburns will meet my needs as well.

I notice that on the company websites, these stoves are all piped straight out the top. The collar for my pipe is roughly 36" off the floor; will these stoves take a horizontal rear pipe, or do they all have to be piped as shown in the company literature?
 
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