POLL....Outside Air Kit (OAK).... Do you have it?

With a basement setup, an OAK would look really bad. A pipe coming out of the wall, it can't come through the basement floor.

Andrew

I installed in a masonary fireplace in the middle of the house. No way to put in an oak. The the bigger the variance in temp the more important it is. I am in WI and can tell you it gets dry and I wish I could put one in when the temps hit 0 or below...

Swedishchef said:

With a basement setup, an OAK would look really bad. A pipe coming out of the wall, it can't come through the basement floor.

Andrew

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I'd like one, but didn't get one just for that reason. In theory, however, I think they are a good idea if it's practical.

I just think it makes sense if you can do it. My house is small and I have tightened it up pretty good. My basement stove competes with a water heater, clothes dryer and bathroom fan and you could tell the difference in the fire before I installed the OAK when they are all running at the same time. Both stoves have an OAK, one stove gets it's air from the old fireplace ash dump and the other in the basement has a run against the back wall through a wall to my work shop then up and out the sill plate.

Well, it is required by law in my state so I didn't have a choice. That said, I would have put it in anyways as there are many plusses and no minuses. The only reasons people don't put them in is cost, complexity, and laziness. It's easy to make excuses.

We have had an OAK in the past but that was many moons ago. Thinking we may have to put one in this year though because of remodel and tightening up the house a bit. Also new doors and windows. Might need some extra draft. Will soon find out.

mhrischuk said:

There can be minuses.
Cold air intrusion.
Chimney downdraft can cause hot flue gases to exit the OAK causing dangerous conditions.
Just opening an exterior door could cause flue gases to push out through the OAK.

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False, it won't happen. Chimneys draft up unless you have some substandard installation. Remember that whole heat rises thing.

Assuming you could get your chiney to draft backwards, don't you think this would be even worse if the smoke was pumping into your living space through the stove's inlets? I bet that hasn't happened to you either.

The woodheat.org site's viewpoint on OAK setups has long been deemed bunk.

There can be minuses.
Cold air intrusion.
Chimney downdraft can cause hot flue gases to exit the OAK causing dangerous conditions.
Just opening an exterior door could cause flue gases to push out through the OAK.

Click to expand...

Actually, cold air intrusion is most often an issue where outside air is not being burned. We have used direct connection to outside combustion air as a solution many, many times when the combination of the chimney updraft and other air evacuators causes negative pressurization in the house, which in turn causes cold air to be drawn into the living space through openings in the shell.

As to hot flue gases exiting through the OAK, even the author of the woodheat.org website can't come up with a single documented case where this has ever happened.

Before you make your ultimate decision, I invite you to read both sides of the issue on our website at http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hooa.htm

Are oaks only to be installed in tight homes? The reason I ask is if the home isn't tight, then I would think it would contribute to the stack effect. Also when frigid air hits a hot firebox, does it affect temperatures within the stove? I understand if a home is tight and fighting for combustion air. I also read from another person code states that if a barometric damper is being used a oak is required. Can anyone verify this? Our basement is very leaky and it's difficult to find the leaks. We had an energy audit done and they verified we were at .8 natural air exchanges per hour, which is almost 3 times greater than where we should be at.

I have two stoves in rather sprawling old farmhouse. With both stoves working and with everthing closed up tight, I had some draft issue (two stove fighting over two little air). Installed the OAK on the bigger stove and it solved the problem I have a kit for the other and hope to get it installed before this season starts. Z

thechimneysweep said:

There can be minuses.
Cold air intrusion.
Chimney downdraft can cause hot flue gases to exit the OAK causing dangerous conditions.
Just opening an exterior door could cause flue gases to push out through the OAK.

Click to expand...

Actually, cold air intrusion is most often an issue where outside air is not being burned. We have used direct connection to outside combustion air as a solution many, many times when the combination of the chimney updraft and other air evacuators causes negative pressurization in the house, which in turn causes cold air to be drawn into the living space through openings in the shell.

As to hot flue gases exiting through the OAK, even the author of the woodheat.org website can't come up with a single documented case where this has ever happened.

Before you make your ultimate decision, I invite you to read both sides of the issue on our website at http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hooa.htm

Click to expand...

Tom,

When you say "direct connection", does that mean that the OAK is sealed to the air inlet on the wood stove?

And a followup question, if a direct sealed connection of the OAK to the stove is not made, then I would think that air intrusion could be an issue?

I recall a forum user "Ribs1" with a summit insert that had air intrusion issues thread https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/49363/

mhrischuk said:

Polling all existing wood stove users.

Feel free to comment and tell us which answer you selected and why.

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Well, you didn't include an option of saying I don't use an OAK. Oh, and why did you exclude all the non-existing wood stove users? %-P

I chose "It looked like a good idea" because intuitively, at the time, it made sense to me. Installation was hidden and easy, thanks to insightful tips from the helpful folks at chimneysweep.com. Click on the link provided by Tom in post #9 above and you will also be convinced. He was articulate, objective and fair in presenting both sides of the OAK argument. ;-)

In the past two or three years, I and others have written extensively about the benefits of installing an OAK to the stoves in our houses. For a data-rich environment, use the "search" function in this forum to read pages of personal experiences before and after installing an OAK.

Best wishes, and good luck!

John_M

Tom,

When you say “direct connectionâ€, does that mean that the OAK is sealed to the air inlet on the wood stove?

And a followup question, if a direct sealed connection of the OAK to the stove is not made, then I would think that air intrusion could be an issue?

Click to expand...

Hey Madison,

I start with the premise that everybody's stove burns outside air, whether it comes in through cracks in the house's shell, or an open window, or a passive outside air kit, or a direct connection outside air kit. To avoid confusion, I use "direct connection" to identify kits that deliver the air directly into the stove, as opposed to kits that just deliver the air into the room, like the Condar ASV-90 shown at http://www.condar.com/asv.html.

Cold air intrusion into the room is a big issue when combustion air is supplied via cracks in the house, open windows or passive kits. This is much less of a problem with kits that connect directly to the stove.

Two OAKs on high-efficiency zero-clearance fireplaces installed on exterior walls, where they are easy to do and obviously a good idea. No problems whatsoever.

I don't have an oak.

However, I do think they sound like a good idea.

In an ideal world, I would design a stove which not only had an oak, but also some way of emptying the ash directly outside, reducing dust indoors.

I have the idea in my head, getting it to paper and into a lump of cast iron is not so easy......... ;-)

Mobile homes must use an OAK.

~Rose

I am planning on installing one. i have a basement install, but I have wood wall on the back side of the home. Trying to reduce the amount of draft coming from the other end of the house.

My insert is in a masonary fireplace in the middle of my home, no real way to put an oak in...

Highbeam said:

Well, it is required by law in my state so I didn't have a choice. That said, I would have put it in anyways as there are many plusses and no minuses. The only reasons people don't put them in is cost, complexity, and laziness. It's easy to make excuses.

Click to expand...

Do you have a link to the RCW? My install and none of my neighbors getting new installs in the last few years have OAKs.

Maybe it is a county based law in the west-side counties?

EDIT: In addition to single pane windows my cabin has enough air leaks I can't imagine an OAK would do much good. The Endeavor heats the small 900 square feet very well.

I am in pierce county. I actually pulled a permit for my installation and the OAK was required. Maybe tom has the RCW handy. The inspector would have rejected my installation had the outside air connection not been made. All mobile homes in the country need one too.

The idea that a leaky house will make an OAK ineffective is odd. The whole point of an OAK is to burn outside air directly and prevent the stove from consuming the heated inside air. Every bit of the inside air that is consumed leads to the sucking in of cold, dry, outside air through those cracks. A leaky house is why you want an OAK, an ubertight house will benefit from the OAK as well since the burning fire will create a vacuum in the home and snuff the fire or suck air in through other flues.

Really, there is no reason to choose not to install an OAK except for cost, complexity, or laziness.

Highbeam said:

I am in pierce county. I actually pulled a permit for my installation and the OAK was required. Maybe tom has the RCW handy. The inspector would have rejected my installation had the outside air connection not been made. All mobile homes in the country need one too.

The idea that a leaky house will make an OAK ineffective is odd. The whole point of an OAK is to burn outside air directly and prevent the stove from consuming the heated inside air. Every bit of the inside air that is consumed leads to the sucking in of cold, dry, outside air through those cracks. A leaky house is why you want an OAK, an ubertight house will benefit from the OAK as well since the burning fire will create a vacuum in the home and snuff the fire or suck air in through other flues.

Really, there is no reason to choose not to install an OAK except for cost, complexity, or laziness.

Click to expand...

Actually I was thinking OAKs were more for tightly insulated houses. I can see from your comment that they would be useful for leaky houses as well. The Endeavor already heats my small 800 Square foot cabin very well. The installer never mentioned an OAK since it was replacing an old smoke dragon in my old cabin and none of my other neighbors that are near me in Kittitas Co have them either although there are undoubtedly people who have them I don't know. I had heard about the mobile home requirement.

I notice these comments from guy in Bellingham mentions some misinterpretation of the law:

http://chimneysweeponline.com/hooa.htm

"The outside air regulation has been in effect for several years for woodstoves, gas stoves, oil stoves, furnaces and fireplaces installed in mobile and modular homes, which were presumed to be of tighter construction than conventional housing. The more recent Washington State legislation was intended to extend this requirement to include all installations in newly constructed homes, which are of much tighter construction than site-built homes used to be. The wording of the new legislation, however, has resulted in an interpretation by some local code authorities that mandates outside combustion air in all new woodstove, gas stove, oil stove, furnace and fireplace installations, regardless of the age of the house or tightness of construction. This undoubtedly results in some installations in leaky old homes where only a marginal indoor air quality advantage is gained. "