Question for everyone that wants to answer. Oh boy this will fire a lot of people up.

I honestly didn't even consider other stoves than the Lopi Yankee Bay I purchased secondhand.

When I got my house, I purchased a Lopi wood burning stove. The wife didn't enjoy the process of preparing firewood so we made the decision to switch to pellet fuel. It was also a bonus that Lopi is local and we were very satisfied with the woodburning stove we had from them.

kinsman stoves said:

I want to ask everyone why they did not buy a Harman or QuadraFire stove but settled for another brand? Yes I am a dealer for Harman, QuadraFire, and Heatilator stoves. I have sold other brands and I am familiar with most of the common problems related to each brand of stove. I am aware that there is also a slight price difference in some of the units but I want to address that issue as it comes up, because it will.

I have had numerous people come into the store to "upgrade" to a Harman or QuadraFire. I ask them this question and these are the main answers.

The top answers I get are,
1.) They were just getting into the pellet stove area and they were not aware of the difference of quality in the manufacturers of stoves.

2.) They got a good deal so bought the unit they have.

I will leave it at this for now and see what answers I get.

Thanks
Eric

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Wanted an insert, multifuel, big enough to heat a 2400 sq ft colonial style house. Narrowed it down to the Mt. Vernon AE and the Enviro M55 cast insert. Came down to 2 things.

1. Felt more comfortable with the Enviro dealer I was dealing with.

2. The Mt. Vernon was made in China.

I know, I've heard the arguments about most of the electronics are made in China anyway. I know that the M55 is made in Canada, not the US. It may sounds corny, but I really do try to shop for products made in America, or at least North America.

kinsman stoves said:

Wow, I am getting a lot of good information. Please keep it coming and THANKS.

Thanks again
Eric

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It's been really interesting reading all these and would be a perfect 'sticky' for people looking to buy their first stove. Of course, it might confuse them too since there seems to be both extremes on some models, for instance the Castille. Still it's a wealth of info. Good subject!

Got my stove in 2008, back then, Harman was taking orders, but left their distributors high and dry when it came to delivery. Sure, I would have liked to have a Harman. After all, their evaluations are usually tops. We like the Franklin stove style like the new Harman XXV
In the end, I got a stove that had a good sale price. In the past three years, it has been problem free and has been a good "space heater" able to heat my entire home except for the very coldest months and then with only a little furnace assistance. My stove is nothing special to look at, but it is paid for and is a real work horse at keeping us nice and warm. Service. I haven't needed it, but my installation was so flawed I wouldn't dare go back to the dealer. My understanding is that he has been dumped by the distributor. (That business has been selling fuel and heating equipment for nearly 100 years.)

BrotherBart said:

Maybe folks don't think they "settled" for something other than a Harman or Quad. :coolsmirk:

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+1 That was what I was thinking - formulation of the question was interesting.

I just bought a used Harman Accentra. Its the only way I could afford one. Prior to that I had a used Quad Mt Vernon. No way I could have afforded a new one of those either. The only stove I have bought new out of the 5 I have owned has been an Amaizeblaze and I didnt get it hooked up before corn went through the ceiling so I didnt use it.

I've had the Harman just a week now and only test fired it on the porch. I have taken it apart to clean it and I can say that it is by far a much better thought out and put together stove then the Quad. Every part fits together much nicer and the materials used seem to be much beefier. It's definately much more quieter but it doesn't put out the btu's that the Quad does. 60.000 for the Quad and 40,000 for the Harman.

So far I like the Harman much more then the Quad, but let me comment later in the middle Of a January cold snap after a few months of burning and see where I stand.

If price wasn't an issue I'd buy a Harman, then a Quad or if I was really rich I'd buy one of those European deals or maybe a soapstone pellet stove. If I was going to purchase a new stove on my current budget I would wait until the spring when the end of season sales are on and buy something from the ag stores or the big box stores. I saw brand new stoves going for as little as $500 at Big R's and Rural King last spring. Those same stoves have $1500 price tags on them now.

Theres just no way I could walk into a dealer and purchase something off the floor at their prices. A few years ago I went to a dealer and looked at Cumberland stoves. $2850 for a new one. I said thanks for the demo and found a used one for $700. I use it as my back up stove now.

We DID buy a Harmon and kind of wonder if we would have been better off not to. We bought the Harmon P68 for the heat range, our home is 2816 sq ft. In the middle of the second season, the ignitor went and then the distribution fan went in the middle of the 3rd season. Add to that the fact that even though the fan is under warranty, the dealer charges a service fee of $100 to come out and change it...and I wonder if we would be better off with a less expensive brand and also NOT buying from the same dealer either! I would have liked to have done more research before buying but seeing that propane was $1000 per month the previous winter (2007/2008) so my husband got impulsive and dove in and bought it, lol.

hopper size is almost irrelevant. if you burn 3 tons a season you still have to add 3 tons to your stove no matter what size the hopper is

I bought the Harman XXV because of all the research I did and wish I had not. Nice stove but the dealership sold the business shortly after and then there was no support (they lost Harman and cold no longer sell). Support, reputation and the price at the time was the reason I bought. Had to have the auger tube and burn pot replaced and cost me close to $240.00 in labor because of no Harman dealer close and Harman would only allow so much in reimbursement.

Support and price were my reason for buying, so much for the support.

Still have a controller board issue where if I touch the fan speed it cuts off. Tried to get it replaced but Harman kept telling me the board is not the issue, so now I have to live with it since it is no longer under warranty.

CelciusMaximus said:

hopper size is almost irrelevant. if you burn 3 tons a season you still have to add 3 tons to your stove no matter what size the hopper is

Click to expand...

Of course hopper size is relevant. If you burn 40 lbs a day and your hopper holds 40lbs you're filling it everyday. If your hopper holds 80lbs you're filling it every other day.

The hopper size didn't matter much to me but it definitely does to some.

Price...

I THOUGHT I needed a Harman... until I saw the price tag.... geez!

I bought my used St. Croix for $1100.00 and have never looked back... needed an ignitor last year and a new burn pot this year.... no other problems since I bought it in 2006? It's now 11 years old...

With Harman's "customer no service" attitude it will be a cold day before they get my business.

When i was shopping around, my local dealer always came across as "pushy" and "bragging" about their stoves and service (I looked at stove for about three years before pulling the trigger).... after my stove didn't want to run after my first ton I called for service help. The tech came over "on time", cleaned the stove, did the 'leaf blower trick' and voila! a stove that runs like new! NOW I was sold on the dealer...

I can honestly say right now that a good dealer can make all the difference in the world in the pellet stove owning experience...

CelciusMaximus said:

hopper size is almost irrelevant. if you burn 3 tons a season you still have to add 3 tons to your stove no matter what size the hopper is

Click to expand...

Whats relevent and not is person specific. I use my stove for my primary heat. I can fill it and leave it for the weekend without worrying about it running out. Hopper size is first on my list.

IHATEPROPANE said:

CelciusMaximus said:

hopper size is almost irrelevant. if you burn 3 tons a season you still have to add 3 tons to your stove no matter what size the hopper is

Click to expand...

Whats relevent and not is person specific. I use my stove for my primary heat. I can fill it and leave it for the weekend without worrying about it running out. Hopper size is first on my list.

Click to expand...

Not having to fill my hopper 2 to 3 times a day is O' so handy/dandy to me. I fill it once every day and even on the coldest I don't need to rush home to be sure its not gonna run out! Bigger is better IMHO! Second only to the multifuel feature in the overall picture.

i have a avalalon astoria insert puts out great heat, first went to a harmon dealer they didnt want to answer any questions that we had and if they did gave us attitude so we went else where and bought the avalon this iis the first pellet stove that we owned. bought stove before i knew about this site. would i buy another yes but from another dealer .

i think it boils down to a couple of things for the most part;

looks, price point, type of service package would be the biggies IMHO.

if you have a minute i hope you will read the section below, i dont do this often but here it is.

"SHAMELESS PLUG" one other thing is in this day and time an American made product is also a selling point. not saying we are the only one but ESW stoves are all built here in Va. with American steel by American workers. we get our castings from VC in Bethel, in full disclosure i will say our fans in our pellet stoves are not all american made but this is more due to not having a US blower company that can handle the quantity at the quality we ask for(at least this is what im told) but our control system which i would put up against anything in the industry is manufactured by a small local company just across the river in Lynchburg Va. our machined parts likewise are done by a local shop. glass from corning in new york, trim parts (brass trim nickel etc are from a company in NC, as are our gaskets. in a nutshell we are as American made as feasible.

now, im not one to "blow my own horn" so to speak, i feel like my stoves speak volumes for themselves. but having the opportunity to extoll and commend the hard work done by people who turn out upwards of 30K units annually at a high degree of quality year after year, welding in all that gear on during the summer days where it gets to 100F by 10 am in the shop, finish department workers in a similar environment, a shipping department that packages and ships sometimes upwards of a thousand packages a day (we got a lot of stoves out there) making virtually no mistakes (this shipping department is all hands on , no automation) my service department, many of them working all summer building stoves , then coming to my service call center to help folks with customer support in the winter (they dont get a break in the action at all) the ladies in the office that orchestrate the dance of orders and accounts and such should be mentioned as well, we'd be a mess without them as well. the sales staff who literally drive all over north america here and in canada doing product knowledge training with dealers for days and weeks at a time (i couldnt do it) away from home and family. essentially we're a great big team, we have that mentality as well, team effort and a winning team effort at that. i couldnt work for a better company.

I like this thread it gives one a good perspective of how each person feels about why they bought the stove they have or why they would have picked another brand.

I also did not know the M55 is made in Canada, I was glad to learn that since I'm considering buying one soon. I'd like to avoid anything that is made in China if possible. Every Canadian product I have owned was fantastic and build very well.

On a side note I just threw out another automatic coffee maker that lasted about 6 months, and the burner just quit, and of course it's another product of China. The coffee maker I had 20 years ago was made in the USA, and it ran for 15 years until one day I knocked it off the kitchen counter by accident and broke it. But if you're my age or therebouts I dont have to tell you how reliable any Chinese product is.


Keep the comments coming in, and thanks to Eric for a great thread. I like hearing what stoves the guys and gals own here in the forum and how they feel about them, and what problems if any they have.

When we bought this house 2 years ago there was a 2000 Englander 25 installed in the basement. We were excited to have a pellet stove until we actually tried heating with it. The lack of auto igniter and a real ash pan made this stove quite a chore. My wife and I are gone for 12 hours a day so we didn't have time to sit and tinker with the thing. Without daily cleaning we would come home and it would literally put itself out because of ash buildup in the burn pot. Note this is just my opinion before people jump in with all kinds of stuff about how I must not have cleaned my stove properly and such.

I than purchased a Harman Accentra Insert off of CL for $1500 for the upstairs. This thing is the real deal, it's design with a burn pot that the ashes actually gets pushed out of lets me run it 24/7, open the door once a day to scrape the put, and shutting it down once a weekend for thorough cleaning.

Next I bought a Quadra fire Santa Fe off CL for $400 to replace the Englander in the basement. While better than the Englander, it's no Harman. The sheet metal sides are cheap and don't line up. If you need to open the door for any reason, the latch is poor designed and you have to open up both sides to get at it. It's also extremely hot if the stove has been on. The burn pot does have a trap door but it's not as good as one that pushes the ash out on it's own. I understand that the Santa Fe is their lower model.

I think as with anything else in life it all depends on what you're looking for. The Englander just needed to much babysitting for our current schedule and probably caused more frustration than warmth. The Harman while not perfect provides much more worry free operation.

My .02...
We were replacing a propane insert (which gave off practically no heat), so we had to get an insert as opposed to a free standing unit. Initially we were looking at a Harman Accentra insert, but I REALLY didn't like the dealership. Example: the OWNER came out to do a site inspection ($35.00). He said he had been in the business for 20 years - a real PRO. He quoted me a package price (stove, pipe through the roof, installation, etc.) It seemed like a good deal, so I wrote him a deposit check. 2 days later, his office person calls me and says that this PRO dealer/owner somehow forgot to add in the installation cost to the contract, so the total price of the package would be $856.00 MORE. WRONG. I went down to the store the next day and got my deposit check back.

Next I called the other big dealer in the area and had him come out to do a site inspection (free). I was leaning towards the Quadrafire Castile insert. When I told him I wanted to heat my entire house with only the stove and when he saw that my livingroom had 17' ceilings, he told me flat out that the Castile wasn't up to the task. He told me that he has the Mt Vernon insert in his own house (I've since seen pictures that bear out his claim) and that it heats his entire house without a problem. Well, the Mt Vernon was definitely more than we had budgeted for the project, but when we considered that this was a long term investment, we decided to bite the bullet.

So, having a unit that was up to the task and reliable was #1, looks was #2, the dealer's attitude and knowledge was #3. In this case, price came in last.

EarlyMan

kinsman stoves said:

I want to ask everyone why they did not buy a Harman or QuadraFire stove but settled for another brand? Yes I am a dealer for Harman, QuadraFire, and Heatilator stoves. I have sold other brands and I am familiar with most of the common problems related to each brand of stove. I am aware that there is also a slight price difference in some of the units but I want to address that issue as it comes up, because it will.
Thanks
Eric

Click to expand...

I have always considered Quad a step down. Now for sure a major step down. Never saw the value in Harman vastly over rated in my humble opinion.

Brad

4yrs ago I was looking for an alternate heating source for my ohw system. I settled on a pellet stove for my situation, i used the internet to help in making my decision. the Breckwell Big E came up as a good reliable econonmical stove. It had good reivews, good options and a great price and so far good performance (knocking on wood). After a few rookie seasons I am pleased with my decision.

Looked like the St. Croix was a better unit for what I wanted it to do, and at a better price. No regrets.

The burn pot on the Harman makes better sense to me.