spraying the stacks?
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mtneer
Member
I have some spectricide termite/misc crawlies killer. It says for use on wood piles right on the bottle. Says it lasts for up to 8 weeks. I bought it because some powder post beetles were getting aggressive with some species of hickory I have. Not sure if the spray did the trick or the wood finally dried too much for the bugs to eat.
Wood Duck
Minister of Fire
My concern would be burning wood treated with insecticide. Does the insecticide evaporate from the wood as it is warmed in the house or loaded in the stove? What sorts of compounds are formed as insecticide burns? I don't know. I'd try to spray as little as possible.
mtneer
Member
Yeah, I thought about the chemical residue, but this would have to be one helluva chemical to be around 3 years from now. I probably won't use insecticide on my piles again since 90% of my wood is pretty much untouched by bugs. I've been using up the extra bit by spraying along the pallets I stack on.
Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
In 50+ years of wood burning I've never see any reason someone would put chemicals on a wood pile. But perhaps things are different in different areas of the country. Well, what the heck, some folks are really scared over snakes being in the wood pile. However, in our area we burn the wood during the winter months and don't find many snakes at that time of year.
Something else that might help minimize bugs is the same thing that will maximize seasoning. Someone made this suggestion regarding my stacks, and I've been doing my best to practice it. Do everything you can to minimize plant growth around the stacks. He uses Roundup, I trample and mow, but the same general results ensue: no plant `bridge' for insects and moisture to get to the wood, more open space around the piles for air movement and sun to hit the piles and dry them out. This might help discourage the greedy pests. I think your practice of spraying the pallets will also block off an access path.
I would never spray toxic chemicals on my woodpile. I would also never spray toxic chemicals to kill plants next to my woodpile. I like frogs, toads, spiders, snakes, etc. These things eat bugs and can also be wiped out by insecticides and herbacides. I never find many bugs once the wood has seasoned.
Many insecticides specify not to do this.
The other concern is if it is an outside use product, you'll eventually be bringing it into the house.
pen
The other concern is if it is an outside use product, you'll eventually be bringing it into the house.
pen
ewdudley
Minister of Fire
disodium octaborate tetrahydrate 'borate'
Low toxicity, good for powder post beetles and some others.
Low toxicity, good for powder post beetles and some others.
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
Never sprayed my wood for bugs . . . well except for the other day when I was trying to knock down some wasps that were flying around my kindling pile . . . I shot a bit at the kindling stacks . . . some at the flying wasps . . . some on my wife's bike . . . some on the floor of the shed . . . some on the wall of the shed . . . some on the window of the shed . . . well you get the idea . . . I have bad aim.
midwestcoast
Minister of Fire
I'll state my bias straight off. I don't use chemical herbicides or pesticides. You won't find so much as a can of raid in my house.
That said, if I was lossing a woodpile to insects I would get rid of vegetation around the stack (weed-wacker...) and spread a barrier of Diatomaceous Earth around the pile and sprinkled on/in the pile. The name is hard to say/spell but all it is is tiny shells about like powder. It's cheap, safe as dirt and kills bugs by piercing their exoskeleton causing them to dry out. Ask in feed stores & garden centers. you'd need to reapply after heavy rain.
That said, if I was lossing a woodpile to insects I would get rid of vegetation around the stack (weed-wacker...) and spread a barrier of Diatomaceous Earth around the pile and sprinkled on/in the pile. The name is hard to say/spell but all it is is tiny shells about like powder. It's cheap, safe as dirt and kills bugs by piercing their exoskeleton causing them to dry out. Ask in feed stores & garden centers. you'd need to reapply after heavy rain.
DanCorcoran
Minister of Fire
My cabin is made entirely of wood and is pier and beam construction, with wooden piers. We have carpenter ants on every square inch around the cabin and in every tree I cut for firewood. I spray Talstar around the piers and on the woodpiles. I wait the time specified on the label before burning the wood. I don't use any insecticides at all at our home in Richmond, or inside the cabin in WV.
P.S. Saw a 4-5 foot timber rattlesnake about 50 yards from the cabin the last time I was there. He didn't bother me, so I didn't bother him...plus, his family settled there first and he doesn't damage wood.
P.S. Saw a 4-5 foot timber rattlesnake about 50 yards from the cabin the last time I was there. He didn't bother me, so I didn't bother him...plus, his family settled there first and he doesn't damage wood.
jpl1nh
Minister of Fire
As your wood dries, there is virtually no inviting habitat for insects left since moisture is important to them. The largest single source of environmental contamination in the US is homeowners who have absolutely no restrictions on how and where they choose to apply pesticides. I have a BS in plant science, am licensed as a pesticide applicator, and have worked in the plant business my entire life. The majority of pesticides are poisons. They are toxic, sometimes mutanagenic and sometimes carcinogenic. While the insecticide you use might loose it's toxicity in a few weeks, all the chemicals that make it up will still be there on your wood and will then be released either as is, or as other chemical derivatives, from your chimney. I'm sure your neighbors would appreciate not having that in their air. I am not opposed to using pesticides where needed, but considering the baggage that comes with pesticide use, I certainly advocate using them only where necessary, only as a last resort, only after positive identification of the target pest, and only according to directions. Instead, just dry and season your wood well, stack it under cover and don't worry about a few bugs. They won't really bother a thing. Everyone will breath easier.
I typically spray the border around my wood-piles with Permethrin based Ant killer. Permethrin kills a large variety of bugs (insects & arachnids). I do it more of an "overall" insect control program rather than to target pest within the wood.
I spray permethrin around the house every 4-6 weeks to keep bug problems down. So far it has worked great. The wood piles get sprayed to just because they can harbor a lot of bugs.
I spray permethrin around the house every 4-6 weeks to keep bug problems down. So far it has worked great. The wood piles get sprayed to just because they can harbor a lot of bugs.
jpl1nh
Minister of Fire
CountryBoy19 said:
While permethrin is a moderately safe pesticide for most mammels, it is highly toxic to cats and will easily kill them. The EPA classifies it as a likely carcinogen. Like virtually all chemical substances, there is potentially a hidden cost; weigh the benefit against the risk.
Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
red oak
Minister of Fire
I have to say that I would never spray toxic chemicals on my woodpile. My kids help handle that wood, and so does my wife once every three or four years. Also my cat hunts for mice there and my chickens hunt for bugs. I've never had a problem with bugs and would have to have something major happen to consider putting chemicals there.
sullystull
Feeling the Heat
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
Scoooter said:firefighterjake said:
Jake,
I hope you have better aim with a fire hose:cheese:
Scott
Yeah . . . fire generally doesn't move quite so fast.
greenbrierwv
Member
I wouldnt spray the wood you are going to burn inside your home with any chemical. Probably not a good idea for you and your family. maybe you could put something around the wood pile, but not directly on the wood. i live in wv and have never had any reason to spray a wood pile with chemicals. of course, im not big on chemicals in general so maybe im a bit bias.
jpl1nh said:
It's a good thing permethrin breaks down at high temperatures and exposure to UV light then isn't it?
The most harmful chemicals that could possibly be released would be chlorine compounds, which would be no worse than those compounds off-gassed by your swimming pool in the hot summer sun.
I'm not some hill-jack that's just wildly spraying chemicals all over the place; I'm licensed by the Office of the Indiana State Chemist to purchase and apply Restricted Use Pesticides. I know my chemistry, and I know my pesticides, and I've chosen permethrin as the safest pesticide possible for use around my house and on my wood-pile. The only concern would be cats, and I don't have any, and none of my neighbors have any so I'm gtg there.
BTW, a few permethrin facts for those that may think it is some big nasty "chemical".
Permethrin is the synthetic form of natural pesticides derived from the chrysanthemum family of plants. In laymans terms, for a long time we've been extracting oils from chrysanthemums (flowers) to use them to naturally kill insects. A chemist has figured out to to synthetically create that same exact oil at a much lower cost. When you use permethrin you're essentially using a synthesized version of a naturally occurring pesticide.
Permethrin is also used as a topical cream to treat scabies and other bug related skin problems on humans. Frontline plus and other flea/tick chemicals that are applied to your dogs are permethrin based.
Permethrin is impregnated into most military uniforms as a form of tick control.
Just fyi for anybody that isn't absolutely scared to death of every substance that has a "chemically sounding name" and might want to use it.
I spray a little Tempo on my stacks. I use that in the house as well. It really takes care of the spiders, which is my biggest problem. It is not cheap, but it does the trick.
jpl1nh
Minister of Fire
Good point regarding people being scared silly about stuff. I don't mean to suggest they should be scared but only exercise a healthy understanding and respect for toxic products. As you point out, it degrades relatively quickly and does not leave toxic by products. It is potentially most harmful before it degrades though it is poorly absorbed through the skin and evenly quickly broken down in the gut if swallowed, not that I want to drink it. If you get it on your skin and wash quickly, it should not be an issue. As for it's potential carcinogenic properties, none of us will ever really know if we develop cancer, what substances might have helped bring about the genetic mutations that over time lead down that path. Considering that one of the most common and potent carcinogens we know of is sold in every corner store and consumed widely by about 20% of the population everyday, that being cigarettes, the issue of concern of getting cancer from permethrin is laughable! In general, just better to minimize whatever possible exposures that you can. Chemically, permethrin is in the same class of compounds as pyrethrin. But it and all the other synthetic pyrethroids are not actually the same chemical structure as pyrethrin, they are close but permethrin for example has two benzyl groups as opposed to pyrthrin's one and has two chlorine atoms attached at one end where pyrethrin has none. Not to say that natural pyrethrin is better. The term "natural" drives me crazy because it always seems to imply healthy and "green" but.. All of these products are natural; mercury, lead, heroin, arsenic, radon, cyanide, but they certainly aren't good for you.CountryBoy19 said:
jpl1nh said:
Exactly right. Permethrin is definitely not harmless and if I implied that then I didn't intend to do so. I was just trying to point out that relative to most pesticides it is much less harmful. Like I said in my first post, I don't apply it to the wood-piles to necessarily kill insects that are eating the wood etc. I apply as a part of my pest reduction regimen around the house. Ever since we moved here we've been fighting bugs really bad because I'm surrounding by a large field of weeds that the owner refuses to mow down occasionally. The bugs migrate onto our property and into our house. By spraying permethrin around the border of the house, and the border of the yard (where the wood piles are located) I have knocked the insect problem down by about 80% or more since I started my regimen. And if spraying near the wood stacks kills off any carpenter ants that think of venturing out beyond the wood stacks then that an added benefit.
Now if I can just get rid of the ground-hog that seems to think my wood pile is great shelter.
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