High level of irritation about installation

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PJPellet

Minister of Fire
Sep 6, 2011
588
Western NY
Hey Guys,
Ever since my installation in February I have ALWAYS had a smoke smell on start up, then it would go away. I assumed this was normal because of my limited pellet stove experience. I joined this forum a few weeks ago and have learned a wealth of knowledge, one of the things I learned is that this smoke smell at start up is not normal. So I decided to take the pipe apart and clean very well and then re-do the pipe installation. I did all of that and re-attached everything....still that smoke smell on start up. So I used something else I learned here, the lights off with flashlight trick to see smoke. The next time I started the stove I was in the dark with the flashlight. I saw the smoke was coming from the stove adapter which I didn't remove because it was siliconed and screwed to the stove exhaust. After doing some research and looking around I discovered that the two screws that the installer used to connect the stove adapter to the stove were so long that they pierced the inner pipe of the stove adapter therefore allowing smoke to get between the inner and outer pipe and from there into the room. I used some silicone sealant all around the screws and seams and it took care of the smoke leak at start up.
What irritates me is that I paid extra for this installation. If I only knew then what I know now I would have done the install myself. Another scary fact is that I have two children under the age of three in this house that had a pellet stove with a leaky exhaust.

And of course a big THANK YOU to everyone on this forum for information, help, guidance, and patience. Now when I have a question or doubt I have the best resource for information at my fingertips.
 
I don't blame you one bit for being upset with that installation.
My installer: 1. took 3 separate visits on separate dates to do the installation. Only the first visit was planned. 2. cut outside hole for the exhaust a foot away from the inside hole. The mark he used to line the hole with was a bug that walked off. Lucky for me I had left over siding to do the repair. 3. Over billed me by $300. I challenged the bill and asked for an itemized billing. The reduced the bill by $300 saying they billed twice for some of the same material. they wanted $1200 for up 3 feet and out. 4. They didn't do or want to install OAK and they left without leaving a copy of the stove's operation manual.
This was from a local business that has been in the heating business longer than I have been around, and I am in the Social Security/medicare group of the population.
The person who sold me the stove and responsible for the installation no longer is working for that company. (fired)
If I knew then what I have learned from this forum now, and with a little muscel help, I could install that stove myself in far less time then it took the two of them.
 
not completely sure on this but I think the sheet metal screws are saposed to go through the stove exhaust otherwise you have nothing to secure the vent to the stove. I put mine all the way through and siliconed around them. most woodstoves are installed they same way minus the silicone
 
Installer did the same in my install last year. One of many things they did wrong. I spent last winter siliconing and taping pipes. In the next week or so I will replace the entire system.

I know you don't want to hear this, but I would also replace the pipes with the pierced inner tubes. I don't think it is a great safety issue, but if you want to be 100% sure and smoke smell free, it is the way to go. Smoke will find a way out when things shift when you do cleanings and maintenance. I noticed that any time I did a good cleaning with the leaf blower smoke smell would return. And really, the pipe is not designed to work like that.
 
It always bears repeating you should never smell wood smoke from a pellet stove on start up or any other time inside your house.

If you smell wood smoke it is leak hunting time.
 
whosthat said:
not completely sure on this but I think the sheet metal screws are saposed to go through the stove exhaust otherwise you have nothing to secure the vent to the stove. I put mine all the way through and siliconed around them. most woodstoves are installed they same way minus the silicone

The screws are supposed to be just be long enough to go through the stove adapter and the stove exhaust outlet, and that's it. If the screw is too long, it will go through the stove exhaust and push (bend) the inner pipe away creating a gap that the smoke can go through. Squirting some silicone into the hole may (or may not) seal the leak. It will also cause back pressure in the pipe which will affect burn & efficiency.

If it were me, I'd take the stove adapter off and check it.
 
imacman said:
whosthat said:
not completely sure on this but I think the sheet metal screws are saposed to go through the stove exhaust otherwise you have nothing to secure the vent to the stove. I put mine all the way through and siliconed around them. most woodstoves are installed they same way minus the silicone

The screws are supposed to be just be long enough to go through the stove adapter and the stove exhaust outlet, and that's it. If the screw is too long, it will go through the stove exhaust and push (bend) the inner pipe away creating a gap that the smoke can go through. Squirting some silicone into the hole may (or may not) seal the leak. It will also cause back pressure in the pipe which will affect burn & efficiency.

If it were me, I'd take the stove adapter off and check it.

That's a good point. On my stove adapter he drilled straight through everything. Fortunately that alleviated any pushing or bending. It looks like he then filled the whole area between inner and outer pipe with silicone, then put the two screws into the pre-drilled holes. I can see some silicone around the screw tips when I peek in the flue. Not a lot just enough that it's noticeable. Even with ALL of that silicone the smoke still found a way out. What makes it worse for me is that the pipe is Excelpellet pipe which is expensive.
Another thing that's bothersome is I wonder how many other people have this same thing with their install. And after reading everyone's replies I think I made out pretty good considering what some others went through here. Y'know, the next time I have the ash pan out I am gonna take a pic of the screw tips in the flue.
 
The ICC Excel adapter is designed differently than say the simpson. The outer pipe does not fit snug against the stove collar, there is a big gap that you fill with silicone. If you drill into that outer you are just bending it. On the Simpson it looks like the outer pipe is more flush with the stove outlet?. The ICC it is different if you look at the stove adapter - the inner pipe actually extends much further than the outer and is predrilled with holes to screw through. Problem is, try finding them from the outside. I actually pre-drilled my stove collar holes with the adapter on and from the inside through those ICC predrilled holes on the inner pipe. If you drill through the outer pipe you will be bending it and drilling through the RTV and through the inner pipe also if screws too long. The supplied screws will go through both.

You have to see the adapter to understand this. My 2 screws go through my stove outlet collar right at the edge of the outer pipe (gap filled with silicone) and right through the inner pipe 2 factory pre-drilled holes. Not the outer. I siliconed over the screw heads, and also on the inside. no smoke so no problem but they could have a better design so the outer pipe gets screwed and does not go through the inner.

See inner pipe in pic - that's what has 2 factory pre-drilled holes in it and gets screwed.
 

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richkorn said:
The ICC Excel adapter is designed differently than say the simpson. The outer pipe does not fit snug against the stove collar, there is a big gap that you fill with silicone. If you drill into that outer you are just bending it. On the Simpson it looks like the outer pipe is more flush with the stove outlet?. The ICC it is different if you look at the stove adapter - the inner pipe actually extends much further than the outer and is predrilled with holes to screw through. Problem is, try finding them from the outside. I actually pre-drilled my stove collar holes with the adapter on and from the inside through those ICC predrilled holes on the inner pipe. If you drill through the outer pipe you will be bending it and drilling through the RTV and through the inner pipe also if screws too long. The supplied screws will go through both.

You have to see the adapter to understand this. My 2 screws go through my stove outlet collar right at the edge of the outer pipe (gap filled with silicone) and right through the inner pipe 2 factory pre-drilled holes. Not the outer. I siliconed over the screw heads, and also on the inside. no smoke so no problem but they could have a better design so the outer pipe gets screwed and does not go through the inner.

See inner pipe in pic - that's what has 2 factory pre-drilled holes in it and gets screwed.

Thanks for the explanation. My installer must not have used enough silicone to fill everything in to prevent smoke. After I put silicone on the screw heads and the two seams of the stove adapter it solved the problem. I was getting a lot of smoke just from that one piece, that's amazing. I agree that it could be a better design. I LOVE the Ecelpellet pipe besides that. The pipe is amazing and easy to work with. Thanks again.
 
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