Opinions on new oil boiler for backup

What's your flue situation for the oil boiler? If you go too efficient then you end up adding the cost of a reline into your equation (a reline may be needed anyhow).

Do you have natural gas available to your location for less than 2k? If so ( I know this is backup) I would seriously consider it. NG is going to be cheaper for decades. If no then propane? I only suggest because if this is backup cost of fuel isn't your biggest concern and a propane boiler is cheaper to install, easier to keep running, cleaner, and have more flexible venting options if a reline is in your future. If I burned 300 gallons a year I'd go with propane vs oil. The fuel doesn't go bad either, is usable for other appliances like gas grills/dryers/GENERATORS ect. That being said if you just can't get around it (myself included) I would first start with an installer and see what he recommends. Your first clue would be if he does a real heat loss calc and if he doesn't then it doesn't matter what he wants to install because he's not qualified. But you probably know all this and I'm not answering your question.

The best thing to happen to oil boilers in the last few years actually happened a long time ago: 3 pass design. I wouldn't bother to install a pin-type sectional cast iron. Burnham MPO, Pensotti, Biasi(cheapest and pretty low mass for a cast iron boiler) are ones I looked at before I scored a Viessmann Vitola (looks like a mini-Garn when the jacket is off!) that I couldn't pass up. Buderus is excellent as well but I couldn't justify the extra money for what I was doing. More than anything its going to be the installer. A contractor-grade steel boiler will last for 20 years and not give you a lick of trouble if the installer does his job. I really like the Riello burners, especially in weak draft situations. They used to be a headache but just about everybody's got parts nowadays.

#1 thing on my list with an oil boiler is sizing correctly to avoid short cycling. You can adjust that through good old fashioned mass or by control technology, but that boiler should be sized for the heat load, and not the nozzle size on the last boiler. I went from a boiler rated 164k btu/hr to one rated for 92k btu/hr, and that after 1000 sqft addition. The original boiler was 3x larger than needed.

Can't newer compact oil boilers be direct vented? I would do that before re-lining. There's some pretty compact oil units out there.

maple1 said:

Can't newer compact oil boilers be direct vented? I would do that before re-lining. There's some pretty compact oil units out there.

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If you can get there.

I am so appreciative of the collective wisdom and experience to be found here. My addendum to above is based upon needing to make the same decision. I had someone make the same suggestion, that I consider a propane boiler installed in my house instead of the boiler-in-the-detached-garage setup I had before my boiler died. I'm considering going over to DHW heating with this unit, moving the unit inside and venting with a power assist, making the switch from glycol to water (possible if I go inside with this instead of circulating through thirty feet of utilidor). Lots of decisions, and winter coming on fast. May not get there as soon as I'd like.

I'm just in the beginning stages of my homework on the question: one thing I learned was that Weil-McClain makes an oil boiler that is supposed to be about 86% efficient, and can be fitted up with an outdoor reset that will adjust temperature in response to the outside temps, that can push it up to around or over 90%. I've seen pix of it, and it looks like an office-sized copier/printer.

Here's a source I found with very simple explanations of heating terms in words of one syllable or less, which is what I was looking for:
http://www.comfort-calc.net/Bypass_Piping_Explaination.html

Here's a simple explanation of outdoor reset from the same folks:
http://www.comfort-calc.net/Outdoor_Reset_Info.html

And a couple of pages you may wish to look at (they are local, but the links are for widely-available product vendors and general information) regarding natural gas and heating in general:
http://www.fngas.com/links.html
http://www.frontierplumbing.com/products.html?panel=1#examples

Good luck with this--would be interested in hearing what you learn and what you think.

Ohhhh no. Well depending on your usage you can get a substantial diascount with propane but for me propane would be 50% more per btu even when factoring gains of efficiency and reduced maint. 139k btu on a gallon of heating oil compared to 92k for propane. 2x the water vapor in propane flue gass vs oil so a condensing boiler makes a lot more sense, plus oil condensate is much more corrosive. The big advantage with propane is the modualting burner coupled with an outdoor reset. A low mass solution (the WM will hold less than a gallon in the heat exchanger) is workable but I'd recommend a ups + good grounding to isolate the boilers fancy electronics. Close to 1/2 the cost of some units.

Hopefully Heaterman chimes in. He's the go-to guy. Sort of does it for a living.

I am by no means an expert in the field, but I did do some research about five or six years ago (pre-woodstove days) when I finally had it with my oil boiler and burner always dying at least once or twice in the burning season . . .

I looked and did research on a lot of oil boilers and burners back then . . . and granted the research I did is now dated . . . but like Btuser I came to the conclusion that I wanted a 3-pass design vs. the pin type design that I had in place . . . I checked out just about every boiler being made and in the end narrowed it down to Biasi or Pensotti . . . and in the end the best quote I got was with a Pennsotti with a Riello burner with a direct vent installation.

While I am less than pleased with the price of heating oil -- it's the main reason I became a 24/7 wood burner -- I must say I do like the Pennsotti with the Riello burner . . . I have had zero issues with the oil boiler since having it installed . . . and truthfully while I do not know exactly how much money it saved me by buying a new boiler I do know it burned less oil and was much more reliable than my old boiler as I was able to only burn 580 gallons of heating oil in the last year I used oil full time. I should also mention that many of the new oil boilers will surprise you with their small size . . . I ended up with more space in my utility room.

I had an Energy Kinetics System 2000 oil boiler and hot water heater installed last year. They claim to be able to save you up to 40%. Last year I went through 800 gallons. I set the tempature at 67 and did not touch it. I was told by the oil company (Who did NOT install the boiler) that the previous owners went through almost 1200 gallons per year and they had an electric water heater. It was quite expensive and if I had to do it over again I might have went with a less expensive unit and added a wood burning insert, but at the time I did not have the knowledge or intrest.

I have a natural gas line about 1200 feet from my house and the gas company wanted over $30,000.00 to run a line to my house. So that left me with either oil or propane. Which is what brought me here to learn about wood burning.

Uncle said:

I have a natural gas line about 1200 feet from my house and the gas company wanted over $30,000.00 to run a line to my house. So that left me with either oil or propane. Which is what brought me here to learn about wood burning.

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I can beat that....
I have a gas main in front of my property that terminates <20' from my driveway. Local rules require the main extend in front of my driveway for me to be hooked up. The gas company quoted me $10000 for the 20' main extension! Damned bedrock.

Lowes sells 100 LP tanks ($85 here). Buy three. Get a contractor to install a Utica direct vent boiler. Shop around for contractors. Look for someone that works for a company but also does it on the side. Boiler, expansion tank, stainless venting, and fittings to tie into existing system will run no more than $2K. Demo of your old boiler and labor to install will most likely run another $2K. With tanks and everything, I would not see it being over $4500. Should only take about 5-6 hours to install. I do it everyday. I would say that would be the cheapest, and since its your "backup"......If you want very fancy and efficent go with a Buderus GP142 condensing boiler, although you are talking $4800 (my dealer cost) just for the boiler. They weigh hardly anything and you can hang it right on the wall. A refrigerator running is noiser than the Buderus.