Darn neighbors

Nothing like the first cool night with a faint smell of wood burning! As long as it's faint.

hemlock said:

I'm not sure how it works down there, but up here a warrant is required to enter your property. They might ask to come in, but you can nicely say "come back with an officer and a warrant and I'd be happy to let you in - have great day".

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That is true in Missouri. We have something called an Administrative Search Warrant on the books, but it has never been used as far as I know. City judge is a volunteer(write in) and does not mess with warrants. They don't go into peoples homes unless they obtain a criminal warrant from circuit.

Regarding the OP. My guess is the complainant has never smelled smoke. They just saw the wood stacked at your place.

And who knows. There may be a child with a breathing difficulty in your neighborhood or someone with damaged lungs. It may not be anything directed at you or wood burning in general.

There is a fabulous fireplace in an older home in our town. It has an arch in front of the firebox and is unlike any I have seen. I spent many a day and evening there as a child/teenager visiting a buddy. I stopped by and visited the new family a few years ago. Told them stories of the fireplace and how we used to play in the passages around this thing. Mom told me her son was allergic to wood smoke as near as they could figure. So the fireplace sits unused.

id start to burn old tires after this. and good luck getting in the house.

My Oslo heats my home said:

Only a non-woodburner would complain about the smell of smoke. Along with my odd 'smelling fresh green splits' behavior, I love the small of woodstove smoke.

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Smells like home to me. I have many fond, fond, memories of being outside by a camp fire. Maybe if folks got out of their house once in a while it wouldn't stink. The smell of smoke at my house reminds me that I do something concrete to keep my family warm and I see evidence of my efforts. It's rewarding.

Any amount of smoke can bother neighbors who don't burn, particularly in the fall when it's still warm enough to be outside most of the day. I've never had anyone complain but I've moved my start burning day to Thanksgiving. By then I'm really ready for a fire, its cold enough for a good draft, it gets dark early and I've saved a lot of wood for January and February.

"but like the inspector saidnce you put the heat shield they can’t say anything,what if you had a fireplace?they can’t do nothing.and he is a wood burner guy,so he knows."

Sounds like the inspector is trying to be reasonable. He's caught between a complaining neighbor and an uninspected install. It seems like he just wants it installed to code and then he'll leave you alone (assuming you don't blanket the neighborhood in smoke, which it sounds like you don't).

fredarm said:

"but like the inspector saidnce you put the heat shield they can’t say anything,what if you had a fireplace?they can’t do nothing.and he is a wood burner guy,so he knows."

Sounds like the inspector is trying to be reasonable. He's caught between a complaining neighbor and an uninspected install. It seems like he just wants it installed to code and then he'll leave you alone (assuming you don't blanket the neighborhood in smoke, which it sounds like you don't).

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I think that nails it on the head. The inspector is stuck, the neighbor is a douche. IMHO

Shawn

My Oslo heats my home said:

allhandsworking said:

Why not tell inspector that you don't have a wood stove and get off your property! Just burn responsibly so there is no smoke! My fear is what else is the inspector going to find that he can give you a ticket or tax! These people have balls thinking that he can come in your home and snoop around! Gov. Is looking to raise funds so they can spend it more wisely then you!

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Not to put a wrench in the works here but word of mouth travels fast when it comes to official business items like this. If he was to step on the inspectors toes like that he would have more than just the neighbors pissed at him. Better to be cooperative than to make trouble, IMHO.

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You mean the mafia members (er, I mean government officials) talk to eachother and collaborate? And they "put people in their place" if they don't cooperate? Noooo...

For just the reason you said, it's wisest to just comply with them and stay on the down-low. Most inspectors don't even realize they're working for the equivalent of the mafia, and they're really pretty good folks.

BrowningBAR said:

glenlloyd said:

Most metropolitan areas run complaint based systems for everything, so it's all reactionary. I've had major complaints and arguments with the city before and it's usually just an exercise in futility. My crowning achievement was back in 2001 when I compiled four huge volumes of all the 'violations' that existed in my neighborhood that the city turned a blind eye to. This came after they complained about some pieces of wood in my yard that were salvaged from a victorian house that was torn down a few blocks away. The city ended up seizing the brackets salvaged from the house in a 'cleaning' operation to correct what they classified as a 'public nuisance.' Following that cleaning I photographed and created the four volumes of violations that they seemed to be able to ignore. It kept the city inspectors busy for a long time but it solved a lot of neighborhood issues and finally got rid of that mattress that had been laying in the alley north of me for six months that they seemed to ignore!

At any rate, I would be surprised if your city has forbidden wood burning, and the one thing you can tell your neighbors is that the smoke and smell would be a lot worse if you were using an old antiquated fireplace like the one I have.

Fortunately I have decent neighbors who would never complain about the smell, after all, I never complain about their overgrown yard!

for what it's worth...

steve

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I can't live like that. Once I get angry over something I tend to focus a lot of time on it. I don't want to associate being home with being angry. One of the main reasons I avoided home owner associations. I keep my property looking good, but all it takes is one clownish neighbor with too much time on his hands...

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Yeah, I hear ya. Made it a real problem for me for a long time. I moved in to a blighted area and began restoring a house, spending lots of money out of pocket versus buying a nice already decent house out and away from the city center. I just liked the house so I bought it and it's been a huge endeavor.

Having the city come after you over a minor thing like pieces of wood in your yard when the rest of the neighborhood looked like crap really hurt, and it brought the whole project to a halt for several years. I don't think I ever recovered actually, it really showed me that the city could care less whether someone moved into one of their worst areas and tried to make it better, it was all about their rules.

Had I known that this would be the attitude of the city way back when I was looking for a house I would never have purchased one in town. I have always liked the country but decided this would be the place for me. Several years later and several fights / law suits with the city over property owners rights issues and I wish I would never have moved in...you live you learn.

I will never buy again in town...never ever, there are too many ordinances / laws / codes that seem simple on the surface, but can easily be turned on you should the city decide to. You can't really do anything anymore without someone coming along and telling you that the city forbids it. I can't have an unlicensed car in my driveway without the city having the ability to come along and tow it. Personally I don't think that's right.

anyway...yeah, you get can get real bitter about this kind of thing....it's best just to let it go if you can.

steve

shawneyboy said:

fredarm said:

"but like the inspector saidnce you put the heat shield they can’t say anything,what if you had a fireplace?they can’t do nothing.and he is a wood burner guy,so he knows."

Sounds like the inspector is trying to be reasonable. He's caught between a complaining neighbor and an uninspected install. It seems like he just wants it installed to code and then he'll leave you alone (assuming you don't blanket the neighborhood in smoke, which it sounds like you don't).

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I think that nails it on the head. The inspector is stuck, the neighbor is a douche. IMHO

Shawn

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I think your conclusion is premature.

There are always two sides to the story, and the truth usually lies between.

It's rare for somebody to wake up one day and decide to start screwing with the neighbor just because he runs a stove. I'd be inclined to believe that there's a history, and that the incident likely could have been avoided by doing a bit of communicating with the neighbors.

A wood burner creates a nuissance to his neighbors - regardless of how clean you think you run. You can tell yourself (and this forum) all day that your wood is dry, and nothing but steam comes out of your chimney - but that's a load of crap. The closer your neighbors, the greater the nuissance you pose to them. And in denslely populated places like Hartford, where people pay some highest electricity rates in the country in exchange for cleaner air, people have a right to put limits on burning. I'm surprised it's still allowed in a city like Hartford. When you burn, you freeload off something that everyone collectively has paid dearly for - clean air. And you do it solely for your own benefit - which isn't fair. The degradation to local air quality simply isn't acceptable.

It makes little sense to piss off your neighbors in a densely packed area trying to save a few bucks heating your home with wood. If that kind of attitude becomes widespreadwood burning will certainly get regulated into extinction. As it stands burning should be banned in some areas.

Biff_CT2 said:

shawneyboy said:

fredarm said:

"but like the inspector saidnce you put the heat shield they can’t say anything,what if you had a fireplace?they can’t do nothing.and he is a wood burner guy,so he knows."

Sounds like the inspector is trying to be reasonable. He's caught between a complaining neighbor and an uninspected install. It seems like he just wants it installed to code and then he'll leave you alone (assuming you don't blanket the neighborhood in smoke, which it sounds like you don't).

Click to expand...

I think that nails it on the head. The inspector is stuck, the neighbor is a douche. IMHO

Shawn

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I think your conclusion is premature.

There are always two sides to the story, and the truth usually lies between.

It's rare for somebody to wake up one day and decide to start screwing with the neighbor just because he runs a stove. I'd be inclined to believe that there's a history, and that the incident likely could have been avoided by doing a bit of communicating with the neighbors.

A wood burner creates a nuissance to his neighbors - regardless of how clean you think you run. You can tell yourself (and this forum) all day that your wood is dry, and nothing but steam comes out of your chimney - but that's a load of crap. The closer your neighbors, the greater the nuissance you pose to them. And in denslely populated places like Hartford, where people pay some highest electricity rates in the country in exchange for cleaner air, people have a right to put limits on burning. I'm surprised it's still allowed in a city like Hartford. When you burn, you freeload off something that everyone collectively has paid dearly for - clean air. And you do it solely for your own benefit - which isn't fair. The degradation to local air quality simply isn't acceptable.

It makes little sense to piss off your neighbors in a densely packed area trying to save a few bucks heating your home with wood. If that kind of attitude becomes widespreadwood burning will certainly get regulated into extinction. As it stands burning should be banned in some areas.

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I disagree with several areas of this post.

BrowningBAR said:

Biff_CT2 said:

shawneyboy said:

fredarm said:

"but like the inspector saidnce you put the heat shield they can’t say anything,what if you had a fireplace?they can’t do nothing.and he is a wood burner guy,so he knows."

Sounds like the inspector is trying to be reasonable. He's caught between a complaining neighbor and an uninspected install. It seems like he just wants it installed to code and then he'll leave you alone (assuming you don't blanket the neighborhood in smoke, which it sounds like you don't).

Click to expand...

I think that nails it on the head. The inspector is stuck, the neighbor is a douche. IMHO

Shawn

Click to expand...

I think your conclusion is premature.

There are always two sides to the story, and the truth usually lies between.

It's rare for somebody to wake up one day and decide to start screwing with the neighbor just because he runs a stove. I'd be inclined to believe that there's a history, and that the incident likely could have been avoided by doing a bit of communicating with the neighbors.

A wood burner creates a nuissance to his neighbors - regardless of how clean you think you run. You can tell yourself (and this forum) all day that your wood is dry, and nothing but steam comes out of your chimney - but that's a load of crap. The closer your neighbors, the greater the nuissance you pose to them. And in denslely populated places like Hartford, where people pay some highest electricity rates in the country in exchange for cleaner air, people have a right to put limits on burning. I'm surprised it's still allowed in a city like Hartford. When you burn, you freeload off something that everyone collectively has paid dearly for - clean air. And you do it solely for your own benefit - which isn't fair. The degradation to local air quality simply isn't acceptable.

It makes little sense to piss off your neighbors in a densely packed area trying to save a few bucks heating your home with wood. If that kind of attitude becomes widespreadwood burning will certainly get regulated into extinction. As it stands burning should be banned in some areas.

Click to expand...

I disagree with several areas of this post.

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I'm as libertarian as they come, and I've told people flat out "If you so much as mention 'carbon dioxide reduction' to me, I will flat out reject your proposal on principle", so keep that in mind when I say this.

Local/regional/etc government has *some* legitimate power to regulate burning. For the simple reason that you can't keep everything you burn from affecting other people (aka the air they breathe). If something we put into the air is a legitimate nuisance, government can intervene to determine just how much of a nuisance it is. If it's serious, they can stop someone from putting it into the air. If it's minor, they can tell the complainer to go whine up another tree.

That's only for legitimate pollutants though, not for made up stuff like... well, I won't get into that here.

OHHH the problems we have when we live to close to one another. Thank God I am not that close to any neighbors! It seems there may be a previous bad relationship with the neighbor. Course if it wasn't then my guess is its going to be a bad future relationship. I still would crank the hot rod up a few times and test the engine revs. Round here we don't complain about a neighbors doings without going to the neighbor first. I just see it as a chickenshEt way of doing things. I would be more likely to try to burn differently(all dry as I could) if a neighbor came and told me his son had a lung disease and any bad polution is harmful to him than I would if an inspector showed up at my door. At least the inspector found a real problem and may have saved your house and life!
You get more bees with honey than you do smoke!

Reading stuff like this makes me thank God everyday that I don't live in the city. Had a nice place on 10 acres and sold it to live on 96 acres. All good neighbors and farmers here. People don't have time here to worry about other people's business, we're all good friends. Wow, pay taxes and then have your neighbors tell you how to live your life, God bless ya!

I live on 3 acres in an area of 1/2 acre to 1 acre lots, so we have a few houses within shouting distance. Some wood burners, some not. Couple of complainers - apparently don't like barking dogs. If any of them complain about me burning or stacking wood, they'll be politely told to go play in traffic (well, maybe a little harsher than that...)

meh.. nevermind

Glad most of my neighbors are fellow wood burners as well.

I live in an area where everyone has a minimum one acre, some much more than that so homes are far apart, and obviuosly I burn wood, but if I lived in some of the houses around here I think I'd be complaining about the neighbor's wood burning. Across the street is a guy with an outdoor wood furnace. The past year or two he has improved a lot, but before that there seemed to be a constant thick smoke coming from his furnace and drifting along the ground right into a couple of downwind houses. A few doors down is another guy who has stacks of wood seasoning in the yard, and from what I can tell he is at least two years ahead on his wood stacking, but there is always thick smoke coming from his chimney and in calm, cold weather it sinks to near ground level and smokes up about 20 acres of a small valley below us. Several houses are constantly covered in smoke and it must smell strongly of smoke inside those houses. If I was one of those people I'd probably complain to anyone who would listen (although in this township I do not think there is any ordinance and there definitely isn't any enforcement officer even if there is an ordinance regulating wood stoves). My point is that in some situations I think it is prefectly reasonble to complain about a neighbor burning wood. I think we all have a right to heat our homes, but we all have a right to breathe fresh air, too, and there are plenty of wood burners who don't seem to make any effort to limit the impact their wood burning has on neighbors. Of course there are also plenty of people who complain way too much.

+1, I live next door to some older folks, non burners. I have an old garage that will be torn down and it creates a vacuum between the houses. This is just the spacing of the buildings. When the wind doesn't blow fast enough the exhaust just stays there. If I didn't have an EPA unit I know it would never fly. I see how some could complain, no matter how much it is a PITA. I went outside for the first several weeks after the install and walked around my yard to see where the smoke traveled. I also go through more wood because I do not choke the stove down all the way. It is a give and take, don't piss off the neighbors.

I live in NYC on 60/80 my neighbors ask me when am I going to burn that wood? I tell them I do everyday! I know exactly how to run my insert to avoid smoke! Even on start up there is very little smoke if you don't cheep out on kindling. Top down fire also helps!

If a neighbor complains, I ask them how much they are going to contribute towards my oil bill....

Who doesn't like the smell of woodsmoke?? Weirdos.

Several of my neighbors in the trailer park have woodstoves- I first got the idea when I smelled smoke when I was on a walk with my daughter, and tried to figure out where it was coming from, and realized a TON of roofs had chimney caps!

~Rose

rdust said:

Even with an EPA stove you will have smoke at start up and reloads no matter what the wood is like. If the neighbor is smelling/seeing that there isn't much you're going to do. The fun will start when the inspector allows you to burn, the neighbor will probably be complaining all the time.

Moral of the story for people waiting to install a new stove would be to pull the proper permits and have the stove inspected to start with to avoid these types of issues.

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'T'aint necessarily so.

If you start the fire "top-down" you'll be hard-pressed to see any smoke. Ever.

Now, for the neighbor-ijits, what kind of vile fragrance can you marinate a few sticks in, to send them running for respirators? Just a thought.

Or, maybe, attractants for skunks, that you might accidentally toss into their yard(s). Karma-equalizer.

CTYank said:

'T'aint necessarily so.

If you start the fire "top-down" you'll be hard-pressed to see any smoke. Ever.

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The "top-down" fire doesn't help on reloads. If you're reloading on stove with a 600* stove top it may not produce smoke since it's going to go nuclear on you but if you're down in the normal 200-300 range it will smoke. It may only be a few minutes but it will smoke.

Also with a neighbor like this if they're seeing steam on a cold winter day they're going to believe it's smoke.