I just had a Jotul Kennebec installed a couple of weeks ago. So far, I've had trouble getting it started. It isn't all that cold yet, but I wanted to take the chill off a few nights recently. I end up having to tend the fire for a long time before anything really happens. I have been attempting the "top down" fire technique. Maybe I'm just not doing it quite right? Also, should I leave the door cracked a bit while I get it going? If I close the door it seems to go out very quickly. My installer did say that I have a 16' flue length, which is about the minimum needed. So I might not be getting as much draft as a longer flue would produce. I am also getting fairly dirty glass about every use so far, when the fire burns down. When it gets going, it produces great heat and works well. It's just that it's taking me over an hour to get to that point. Any help would certainly be appreciated, especially with this particular model!
New Kennebec Owner, Some Questions
- Thread starter TomH
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TomH said:
is the 16' flue straight up? or do you have any elbows?
Follow what the manual says to do, sometimes it varies.
Generally people leave the door slightly cracked when starting the fire. Leave the door cracked for about 10-15 minutes, until you have a nice fire going.. Then open the flue all the way and shut the door.
Never leave the stove unattended with the door open.
What type of wood are you using?
How well has it been seasoned? (dried)
Top down is nearly impossible to do wrong.
Are you using fire starters or newspaper?
If you have small kindling to start it up, then a little bit bigger pieces on the bottom, then bigger.. then bigger... then you're doing it right.
If you have big pieces of top, and small pieces on the bottom, you're doing it wrong! =)
and welcome!
Soon you'll be thinking of wood piles non stop, and when you see a fallen tree on the side of a road you'll wonder how many cords you can get out of it.
My vote is with unseasoned wood, by the way.
Thanks for the welcomes guys. The wood isn't as well seasoned as I'd like. split in the spring, cut down the fall before that approximately. It's a mix, but likely plenty of oak, and that seasons slow. I'll be getting some kiln dried in the near future also. The flue is basically straight up, slight angle right at the top of the stove.
It's occurred to me that maybe I just "mess with" it too much, and cause more problems than I need!
It's occurred to me that maybe I just "mess with" it too much, and cause more problems than I need!
TomH said:
Messing with it is half the fun... :]
try to pick out the oak if you can... most wood types should be good to go after 9 months.
Unfortunately oak isn't one of those types
Just get a good hot fire going to start with, then once you get some coals you should be fine like you said.
Use more small pieces to start with... or some softwood (pine). Then add your hardwood mix after there's a decent coal bed.
A lot of manufacturers recommend you wait until your current fuel has burned down to coals, then reload... Leaving your damper/air control full open for about 30-60 minutes to let everything get caught, and burn off the moisture then turn it down to your desired level.
Tom,
I have a Jotul Kennebeck also. It heats very well but it also is picky about the wood that i put in it. In the beginning, and before being educated on this site, i thought there was a problem with the stove based on some of the same issues you mentioned, dirty glass, smoldering, tending to it too much. I realized that it was all the wood my man. What i thought was seasoned wasn't, what i thought i could get by with i couldn't. The second year i learned the trick and got way ahead with my wood supply and the stove was easy to start and maintain. Hopefully you can find some drier fuel and get ahead this year for next. Good Luck and welcome to the forums.
I have a Jotul Kennebeck also. It heats very well but it also is picky about the wood that i put in it. In the beginning, and before being educated on this site, i thought there was a problem with the stove based on some of the same issues you mentioned, dirty glass, smoldering, tending to it too much. I realized that it was all the wood my man. What i thought was seasoned wasn't, what i thought i could get by with i couldn't. The second year i learned the trick and got way ahead with my wood supply and the stove was easy to start and maintain. Hopefully you can find some drier fuel and get ahead this year for next. Good Luck and welcome to the forums.
Rudyjr
Feeling the Heat
Kyle19 said:
+1 on this quote. Look for a fire starting thread done by Cleanburnin for this stove. Brent's information helped me with getting a good fire going my first year when I was learning to use this stove. All epa stoves need dry, dry wood to burn their best. Good luck, Jim
You can find Brent's tips in his signature on page two of my install thread.
Thanks Rudy, I'll try his method next time I burn. It got a bit warmer today so no fire tonight. Sunday night perhaps! Maybe I'll have some kiln-dried wood by then.
I have noticed one issue with the "V" method on the bottom of the stack. Standard 16" pieces of wood will not make a V in the Kennebec... so smaller pieces must be used.
Rudyjr
Feeling the Heat
I really think that the key is not so much how you stack the wood as it is getting a very substantial initial fire started. Once you have a hot fire started with smaller wood and the heat up in the stove it is pretty easy to maintain. But you really do need good seasoned wood.
Ok, well I have a bunch more experience now starting this thing. I can say with confidence that I can get a fire started that will stay going. I still have some issues I think however. I really have to keep the flue open all the way to get a good burn I'm finding. Also, I'm not getting the room about 72 deg (maybe it's the setup of the room, I have a vaulted ranch ceiling and I am sucking air down the hall to the bedroom too. The stove will sometimes go to the 700 deg range on the thermometer, but hangs around 500 more often than not. If I turn my air flow down overnight, it stays pretty warm but the glass will be black by morning. I can't really get more than 2-3 hours of actual burning out of a load. A very "full" load doesn't want to burn well either, so I don't fill up the entire space. I think what you guys are saying about dry wood is true, cut in fall and split since spring wood really isn't good enough!
My plan right now is to pile a weeks worth in a single row on a rack I built in the garage. Maybe move some air across it also.
Also, have other kennebec owners found the blower to be sufficient? I feel like it's a little weak maybe.
My plan right now is to pile a weeks worth in a single row on a rack I built in the garage. Maybe move some air across it also.
Also, have other kennebec owners found the blower to be sufficient? I feel like it's a little weak maybe.
Tom,
I have a Jotul Kennebec and a very similar setup as to what you have. I have a straight ranch with vaulted ceilings in the room that I have the stove in. I have a ceiling fan in that room which does help move the air around a bit. Some of the problems you have mentioned again are without a doubt because of the wood. Black glass and not being able to have the fire stay lit are classic wet wood signs. This is my 4th year heating with this stove and each year I have learned more and realized how far ahead you need to be with good seasoned wood. Having said that even with 8 cords of wood stored in a wood shed which has been cut, split and stacked for over a year I can't heat my entire house because of the layout. Ranches are real tough. I've tried fans, big ones, small ones, fans blowing towards the stove, all that jazz and its still hard to get the heat down the hall into the bedrooms even with primo wood. If I had the cash i would just get another small stove to put on the other end of the house instead of asking my medium sized kennebec to do more then it can.
I have a Jotul Kennebec and a very similar setup as to what you have. I have a straight ranch with vaulted ceilings in the room that I have the stove in. I have a ceiling fan in that room which does help move the air around a bit. Some of the problems you have mentioned again are without a doubt because of the wood. Black glass and not being able to have the fire stay lit are classic wet wood signs. This is my 4th year heating with this stove and each year I have learned more and realized how far ahead you need to be with good seasoned wood. Having said that even with 8 cords of wood stored in a wood shed which has been cut, split and stacked for over a year I can't heat my entire house because of the layout. Ranches are real tough. I've tried fans, big ones, small ones, fans blowing towards the stove, all that jazz and its still hard to get the heat down the hall into the bedrooms even with primo wood. If I had the cash i would just get another small stove to put on the other end of the house instead of asking my medium sized kennebec to do more then it can.
Also, about the blower its adequate but not great. If i run it on high I get shorter burn times for some reason. I have 2 dogs two that shed and i find their hair somehow gets sucked into the blower over time and it causes it to rattle more then it should. I have to clean it out every few weeks with one of those forced air computer cleaner things. When the fire is out of course.
Rudyjr
Feeling the Heat
More than likely it is an issue with the wood. I read through your thread and I did not notice any information about your chimeny set up. Do you have a liner in your chimney and a block off plate above the stove? There are many instances of people with inserts and no block off plates that are unhappy with the heat output and performance.
Hi Rudy, yes I feel it is the wood also. I put a bio brick in with some wood last night and I was running at full gallop with the air at around 1/4! That convinced me right there. I'd buy one ton of them if the delivery wasn't so expensive.
As for my setup, I have a fully insulated liner installed, with insulation/block off plate. I had a certified sweep do it and I was pleased with his work. He explained much of what he was doing to me also. The only possible negative to my flue setup is that it's about 16 feet tall, kind of on the low end. I am not sure how this could be improved, adding a flue pipe extension that sticks out the top of the chimney with braces?
As for my setup, I have a fully insulated liner installed, with insulation/block off plate. I had a certified sweep do it and I was pleased with his work. He explained much of what he was doing to me also. The only possible negative to my flue setup is that it's about 16 feet tall, kind of on the low end. I am not sure how this could be improved, adding a flue pipe extension that sticks out the top of the chimney with braces?
Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
Welcome to the forum Tom. You have it right about the wood. Poor fuel in a car makes it run terrible and the same can be said of a stove. Be sure to visit The Wood Shed part of hearth.com for more pointers on wood.
As for the 16' height, that should be fine. I have much less but with good wood, we have no problem.
As for the 16' height, that should be fine. I have much less but with good wood, we have no problem.
I'm getting terrible performance tonight, ugh. I have a feeling some ash got clogged in the air inlet, it just seems so sluggish. With the door open a crack I'm getting great combustion, when I close the door it kills it way down. With the temperature difference tonight the air should be rushing through there. That and over a foot of snow tonight is making me wish for warmer weather again!
Savage, I wonder about that, as my installer even noted I might have difficulty getting a fire going in fall/spring because of the flue height.
Savage, I wonder about that, as my installer even noted I might have difficulty getting a fire going in fall/spring because of the flue height.
Rudyjr
Feeling the Heat
TomH said:
I doubt you have ash clogging the inlet. I have draft issues at times with my stove. It is a basement rec room installation with a chimney just a few feet taller than yours. The problem that you describe is the textbook description of un seasoned wood. The first year my wood was less than optimal and I had left it uncovered after I stacked it, my stove acted very similar to yours. With very dry wood and a good base fire the stove works perfectly as does the air wash on the doors.
Rudy, you're probably right. I'll withold any more judgement until I finally get the delivery of kiln dried stuff. I split a bunch of wood into smaller splits today and that seems to be working much better. There wasn't anything in the inlet either, but I just had to satisfy my urge to check it.
By the way, do you have an outside air inlet connected to the back of your stove? I'm wondering if the air flow into the stove can be impeded at all because of the surround. It doesn't exactly have holes to let air flow in there, and around the stove is the fan outlet areas. I don't have a hookup, its just to the rear of the fireplace with no other openings back there. Someone suggested I could open the ash collect door and let air flow from downstairs, but I'm not sure that seems safe.
By the way, do you have an outside air inlet connected to the back of your stove? I'm wondering if the air flow into the stove can be impeded at all because of the surround. It doesn't exactly have holes to let air flow in there, and around the stove is the fan outlet areas. I don't have a hookup, its just to the rear of the fireplace with no other openings back there. Someone suggested I could open the ash collect door and let air flow from downstairs, but I'm not sure that seems safe.
Rudyjr
Feeling the Heat
No I do not have any outside air supply connected to mine. Last night was our first fire of the season. Started the stove about 5 p.m. The low last night in our area was close to 32 degrees, the thermostat in our hallway said 70 when we went to bed at 11:30.The last logs went on the fire at 10 p.m and was not even a full load, the furnace never ran during the night. The performance of these new stoves is remarkable with good dry hardwood.
I got a load of kiln dried wood yesterday. This stuff burns much better! However, I'm burning with much less heat now for some reason. I think it might be because there is a large % of maple in the bunch. I feel like I'm learning all the lessons the hard way on this one...
Edit: by less heat I mean I'm getting up to 400-500 max instead of 600-700 max at the peak of the burn.
Edit: by less heat I mean I'm getting up to 400-500 max instead of 600-700 max at the peak of the burn.
My_3_Girls
Burning Hunk
Make sure you are not cleaning out all the ash - the toughest time I have with marginal wood is when there is not a good base of ash/dust for the fresh wood to sit on. Starting a fire on bare firebrick is the toughest!
Ok, time for an update. I opened up the ash dump leading downstairs, not sure if that has had an effect on performance but figured I would mention it.
I had the guy who installed my stove come over for a look, and we started a fire to check it out. We determined a few things. First, my wood is a bit too wet, and the kiln dried wood even isn't that great. We read into the 20s with a moisture gage on a fresh split. It wasn't too expensive so I'm not broken up about it. You get what you pay for I guess! The next thing is that the draft seems ok. Whether or not opening up the ash dump to the lower level did anything for that I can't really say, but it can't hurt. He didn't feel it was necessary to look at adding height or an outside air source at this point. He did say outside air would reduce cold draft in areas of the house, which makes sense. I might do that in the future.
He used a top down method, but more kindling than I had previously. He also piled wood farther forward than I have. After the initial fire got going good, he stuffed the stove chock full of wood, even over (but not blocking) the air inlet. This has proven to be key! If I stack wood only behind this area it seems to perform poorly and have a hard time getting new wood started. And it carves a path straight back before much else happens. With the stove stuffed full, it goes to a full blaze, even with my less than idea wood conditions! And the air inlet doesn't plug up or have any difficulties. It seems to get into the pile underneath then distribute well upwards, instead of just hitting the first log on the bottom and burning through it. After he left I repeated the technique and had the hottest fire yet in the stove. I've been using this technique for over a week now. I was finally able to get the room into the 80s with this stove instead of just breaking 70. Now I just have to get some drier wood, or maybe some geobricks.
For anyone else having trouble with this stove (I've read about a few having similar issues) a simple technique change might make all the difference. The manual doesn't say to load it only up the air inlet, but the diagram inside might mislead you to think you should.
I had the guy who installed my stove come over for a look, and we started a fire to check it out. We determined a few things. First, my wood is a bit too wet, and the kiln dried wood even isn't that great. We read into the 20s with a moisture gage on a fresh split. It wasn't too expensive so I'm not broken up about it. You get what you pay for I guess! The next thing is that the draft seems ok. Whether or not opening up the ash dump to the lower level did anything for that I can't really say, but it can't hurt. He didn't feel it was necessary to look at adding height or an outside air source at this point. He did say outside air would reduce cold draft in areas of the house, which makes sense. I might do that in the future.
He used a top down method, but more kindling than I had previously. He also piled wood farther forward than I have. After the initial fire got going good, he stuffed the stove chock full of wood, even over (but not blocking) the air inlet. This has proven to be key! If I stack wood only behind this area it seems to perform poorly and have a hard time getting new wood started. And it carves a path straight back before much else happens. With the stove stuffed full, it goes to a full blaze, even with my less than idea wood conditions! And the air inlet doesn't plug up or have any difficulties. It seems to get into the pile underneath then distribute well upwards, instead of just hitting the first log on the bottom and burning through it. After he left I repeated the technique and had the hottest fire yet in the stove. I've been using this technique for over a week now. I was finally able to get the room into the 80s with this stove instead of just breaking 70. Now I just have to get some drier wood, or maybe some geobricks.
For anyone else having trouble with this stove (I've read about a few having similar issues) a simple technique change might make all the difference. The manual doesn't say to load it only up the air inlet, but the diagram inside might mislead you to think you should.
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