Noticing a definite problem with one-year old fireview on the first fires of this season, concerned

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sksmass

sksmass

Member
Dec 21, 2009
203
Western MA
My new fireview is definitely having a problem. I had it professionally installed last fall (2010) and used it lightly for that first season. It worked great.
But now, this season, something is definitely different -- and wrong.

A few weeks ago I had the chimney swept. I checked the cat, shone a flashlight through it and verified that I could see through every cell in the honeycomb. Then I did a small beak-in fire (~250 degrees). Since then I have had two fires and the cat has failed to light off. The first time I thought maybe I had bad wood. But this time I think something is wrong with the system.

Last year when I engaged the cat it would almost instantly start glowing and the stove top temp would rise quickly while the pipe temp dropped. I'd damp it down to <1 for the main burn.

Now there is no glow. The stove top temp rises at a lethargic rate. The split against the glass had a fresh-cut wood face after almost 20 minutes in the box. And it seems like it needs more air too. I am running it at about "1" on the damper.

Now almost 50 minutes into my main burn the top is 400 and the pipe is 450. The cat is just starting to glow.

This sucks. The fireview ran like clockwork last year. I have no idea what is different now. I'd appreciate any advice you guys have.
 
how long has your wood been seasoned?
 
I split these probably two years ago but left them heaped in a pile uncovered until recently.
Could the wood be the issue?
These splits are probably less dry than the ones I used last year, but they are not wet or green.
I don't notice water sizzling out of them or anything.
 
sksmass said:
I split these probably two years ago but left them heaped in a pile uncovered until recently.
Could the wood be the issue?
These splits are probably less dry than the ones I used last year, but they are not wet or green.
I don't notice water sizzling out of them or anything.
Click to expand...


What is the outside temperature right now?
 
What are the outside temps? Maybe you need to give it more air due to sluggish draft from warmer outside temps.
 
2 years in a pile where there's little air flow and little sun. I would bet it's the wood.
 
[quote author="sksmass" date="1318822866" ] I am running it at about "1" on the damper.[/quote]



Not sure how the FV #s are related to damper position. Is this wide open?
 
Here's some new data:

I just resplit a piece of wood and measured it with my moisture meter. It is 18% inside and 12% on the outside face.

It is 50 degrees ambient temperature outside and 70 degrees inside the house.

Ceramic cat.
 
If the stove burned flawlessly right up until shutting it down in the spring, I'd vote for wood also.

I'd pick up some known dry stuff and give things a try (perhaps that grocery store stuff) or you can take some of what seems to be your driest wood and split it a bit smaller and try.

Is this a SS or ceramic cat? If you try some good wood / smaller stuff and still have a problem getting that cat to light off, I'd give woodstock a call and talk to them.

pen
 
Its been a really wet summer/fall my splits barely seasoned and they are stacked neatly. Also it's not cold yet in the north east/mass. Poor draft is most likely weather related!
 
quote author="sksmass" date="1318822866" ] I am running it at about "1" on the damper.[/quote]



Not sure how the FV #s are related to damper position. Is this wide open?[/quote]

So what is it?
 
FV dampers go from 0-4 with "4" being wide open. Most people run their damper at .25 to 0.50 during the main burn. My typical placement last year was ~0.5.
 
sksmass said:
FV dampers go from 0-4 with "4" being wide open. Most people run their damper at .25 to 0.50 during the main burn. My typical placement last year was ~0.5.
Click to expand...

Do you still run it at 3-4 to bring it up to temp before engaging?
Just asking, as I dont know how these run. I run mine on max until its time to engage. Then I throttle it down a bit. After everything is blackened and ablaze I will take it to my final setting. Just wondering on this as you said you run it on 1 and some of your wood wasnt charred. These questions might help Todd when he chimes in again.
Cheers.
 
sksmass said:
Here's some new data:

I just resplit a piece of wood and measured it with my moisture meter. It is 18% inside and 12% on the outside face.

It is 50 degrees ambient temperature outside and 70 degrees inside the house.

Ceramic cat.
Click to expand...


I kind of think this might have something to do with it.
 
So, in the run-up to cat engagement (250 degrees is when you can engage the cat in a FV) I usually run it at 4 until the pipe temp gets pretty hot (550) and then I throttle back to ~2. It usually takes about 25 minutes to get up to temp. Then I engage the cat and will throttle it down in 1/2 step increments until I see the "flames of hell" on the window.

There really have been no flames of hell tonight no matter how much I fuss with the damper.

Oh, and the chimney is ~30' flex liner (installed 2010) in an interior masonory chimney.
 
sksmass said:
FV dampers go from 0-4 with "4" being wide open. Most people run their damper at .25 to 0.50 during the main burn. My typical placement last year was ~0.5.
Click to expand...


I really think you are doing okay. Draft is weaker due to the warmer outside temps which probably has something to do with your sluggishness. Running it with a little more air (but far from wide open) seems within reason at this point.
 
Sounds like your wood is ok, I'm betting it's the weather messing with you. These 50 degree nights can call for a little more air than what you're used to. If it does continue to give you fits when it gets colder call Woodstock and tell them to send you a new s/s cat.
 
OK. Thanks Todd and everyone for helping to diagnose this. I'll wait until a nice cold night to have my next fire and will see if temperature/draft was the key variable causing the problem.
 
sksmass said:
FV dampers go from 0-4 with "4" being wide open. Most people run their damper at .25 to 0.50 during the main burn. My typical placement last year was ~0.5.
Click to expand...

Whoops! Definitely not true. Most folks run at 1 or 1.25. Seems I was the first to report good results with .75 but that is during the cold of winter. This time of year it can be difficult to run with a lower draft.

I too have to vote for the wood even though your MM read low. Sorry, but even with the so-called scientific data, I still think one can determine if the wood is good or not without one and find too many different results with them. That statement may indeed raise some eyebrows but I've noticed that most of the folks who have the MM also have lots of problems with their wood. Sorry, the the only way in my book is to split and stack where wind will hit the side of the stacked wood. The wood needs to be raised off the ground. There are differences of opinion on covering the wood but we cover only just about the time snow starts flying good. We leave the wood in the stack for 2-3 years minimum. With this formula, we just do not have wood problems that so many seem to have.
 
sksmass said:
So, in the run-up to cat engagement (250 degrees is when you can engage the cat in a FV) I usually run it at 4 until the pipe temp gets pretty hot (550) and then I throttle back to ~2. It usually takes about 25 minutes to get up to temp. Then I engage the cat and will throttle it down in 1/2 step increments until I see the "flames of hell" on the window.

There really have been no flames of hell tonight no matter how much I fuss with the damper.

Oh, and the chimney is ~30' flex liner (installed 2010) in an interior masonory chimney.
Click to expand...

That sounds good for draft control except for the final below 1. I highly doubt you can go that low for sure at this time of the year and not many can run below 1 any time.
 
I agree with the warm outside temp and to little air solution. Run it at about at least 1 in the warmer weather. Take a minute to think about what could have changed in the stove over the summer....I can't think of anything either. What changed is the weather.
 
"That statement may indeed raise some eyebrows but I’ve noticed that most of the folks who have the MM also have lots of problems with their wood."
With all due respect BW I do not see that as a big issue on here, what I do see is wood blamed for every little problem a new wood burner has (believe me I know) and when the person is told the right way to check his wood they work fine, I was surprised how well my HF one works. I do not need one but they are fun to play wiith and a valuable tool for the new wood burner and a person who has limited storage area for his wood.
 
Thanks oldspark. I thought you might chime in on this one. :)
 
Amazing how an outside temp change of 10-20 degrees can have such an effect on stove performance. It's 1000 degrees in there and the room temp is the same at 70. Just a slight outdoor temp change spoils draft.

I see it too on my non-cat burning at 50% draft setting instead of mostly closed, say 10%.
 
Thanks everyone. As usual I have learned an awful lot.

As a sometimes-scientist I think there is a great opportunity for me to answer an empirical question, i.e. what is the cause of observed poor performance.

Basically there are two candidate hypotheses:
1) suboptimal wood
2) suboptimal draft related to moderate outside temps

So, I will test for both.

To test the first I will go get some kiln-dried grocery store stuff and run it when outside temps are moderate.
To test for the second I will use my wood stash (control) on a very cold night.

I'm guessing it is probably the draft.
 
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