Clean chimney before liner?

mj5001 · Oct 17, 2011

I'm trying to save money (but not sacrifice safety) -- does a chimney have to be "that clean" before putting in a liner or can I get by with some buildup BECAUSE I'm putting in a liner?

Any money I can save on this project is a good thing.

The chimney is a good 10 by 12" and I'll put in a 6" liner.

pen · Oct 17, 2011

It should be cleaned well.

pen

mj5001 · Oct 17, 2011

Man -- this liner is expensive ! (best source?)

I'm going to measure later -- single story ranch house, I would think I'll need 15 to 20 ' ?

mhrischuk · Oct 17, 2011

$600 shipped for a complete pre-insulated kit Magnaflex 6" x 20' Insul-Flex Liner Kit Pre-Insulated SKU 06-IF-DCS-020

mj5001 · Oct 17, 2011

OUCH.

And the kits I see for 350.00 (stainless steel) are inferior? I see "Magnaflex" is on the high end of pricing.

I have a chimney that is interior (about the middle of the house), built like a tank -- is insulation "that" necessary.

Cost is a concern, at least for right now.

pen · Oct 17, 2011

Give us a link to the kits you are checking out.

pen

begreen · Oct 17, 2011

Absolutely have the chimney completely clean before installing a liner. That is a good time for inspection too.

Check www.northlineexpress.com and www.dynamitebuys.com for liner kits.

mj5001 · Oct 17, 2011

well, here's one ---

http://www.build.com/duravent-6df30...ector-from-the-duraflexss-304-series/p1763272

my chimney is very close to 15 '

glenlloyd · Oct 17, 2011

MJ5 said:
OUCH.

And the kits I see for 350.00 (stainless steel) are inferior? I see "Magnaflex" is on the high end of pricing.

I have a chimney that is interior (about the middle of the house), built like a tank -- is insulation "that" necessary.

Cost is a concern, at least for right now.

They might be on the high end of pricing but it's also a seasonal issue, demand is high right now and so pricing can adjust to reflect that. Also, if you price out the ss liners without insulation and factor in the cost of insulating kits the pre-insulated liners are very reasonable. Also the hassle of having to insulate the liner yourself and then trying to feed that into a chimney is also worth considering.

My main motto for these kinds of projects is 'you don't want to have to go back in there and redo it again in the near future' so I went with the insulflex.

Cost was a concern for me as well but I still felt that this was the best solution possible. As far as I know no one else offers a pre-insulated liner option like Magnaflex, or at least I haven't found it yet.

good luck

steve

begreen · Oct 17, 2011

If your chimney is a clay tile lined interior flue, you could get away with an uninsulated liner. But I would qualify that by the stove and installation. If this is a top vent stove, what you are proposing is not going to help draft. Considering this is one story, I would insulate the liner.

Stump_Branch · Oct 17, 2011

Yes clean, your thinking about just a pure liner in there, you dont want it getting hot and lighting off old buildup, outside the liner. Liners are good for..3 30 min chimney fires i think...

I ran an uninsulated liner all last year, exterior masonary chimney. I didnt really have an issue with doing it that way. When i changed out the stoves i pulled the liner and insulated. Trust me you dont want to do this twice, really dont.

Good luck...oh and sweeping a chimney is cheap. Go for it.

mj5001 · Oct 17, 2011

one final question about this -- what is the life span of a good liner?

begreen · Oct 17, 2011

That depends... on the thickness and quality of the liner, whether it is a flex or rigid liner, and how aggressively it is cleaned. Flex liner is pretty thin stuff and should not be cleaned with a steep brush. The good news is that with a modern EPA stove burning good, dry wood in an interior chimney, there is not that much creosote accumulation. A light annual brushing is often sufficient in this case.

A rigid liner is much tougher, being made of 24 ga stainless. With decent care it should last a lifetime. Flex should also have a decent lifespan, but I don't know what its limit is. Any sweeps care to comment on the oldest flex liner they are sweeping?

pen · Oct 17, 2011

At the very least, this company claims a "lifetime transferrable warranty" Not sure how that works but that's their claim

http://www.chimneylinerinc.com/red_chimney.htm

I figure the lifespan must be at least 50 years (i'd hope). If not I'd be p'off if I put one in my chimney and surrounded it with pour and set insualtion and then find I have to tear my chimney down to start over because the liner didn't last.

pen

mj5001 · Oct 17, 2011

looks like a good place to buy -- thanks.

mhrischuk · Oct 17, 2011

MJ5 said:
OUCH.

And the kits I see for 350.00 (stainless steel) are inferior? I see "Magnaflex" is on the high end of pricing.

I have a chimney that is interior (about the middle of the house), built like a tank -- is insulation "that" necessary.

Cost is a concern, at least for right now.

Those kits are un-insulated.
The kit I showed you is Pre- insulated.... inner wall of stainless, covered in 1/2" ceramic foil covered insulation and an outer shell of aluminum flex. Comes with everything you need. If you aren't going to insulate it will be cheaper.

BrotherBart · Oct 17, 2011

BeGreen said:
A rigid liner is much tougher, being made of 24 ga stainless. With decent care it should last a lifetime. Flex should also have a decent lifespan, but I don't know what its limit is. Any sweeps care to comment on the oldest flex liner they are sweeping?

I was conversing with a guy a while back that claims to have a few years in the business. He said they have been installing flex liners for around twelve years and sweeping them and haven't had any fail. Of course he probably makes "the sweet child" do the climbing these days. :coolsmirk:

mj5001 · Oct 17, 2011

if you sweep every year, I wouldn't imagine it takes a lot of elbow grease to get any buildup off ?

do you have to take out the stove? or just make damn sure it's closed and let the soot fall back into it and then clean it out?

thanks.

begreen · Oct 17, 2011

BrotherBart said:
BeGreen said:

A rigid liner is much tougher, being made of 24 ga stainless. With decent care it should last a lifetime. Flex should also have a decent lifespan, but I don't know what its limit is. Any sweeps care to comment on the oldest flex liner they are sweeping?

Click to expand...

I was conversing with a guy a while back that claims to have a few years in the business. He said they have been installing flex liners for around twelve years and sweeping them and haven't had any fail. Of course he probably makes "the sweet child" do the climbing these days. :coolsmirk:

LOL. You'd better have a strong roof!

begreen · Oct 17, 2011

MJ5 said:
if you sweep every year, I wouldn't imagine it takes a lot of elbow grease to get any buildup off ?

do you have to take out the stove? or just make damn sure it's closed and let the soot fall back into it and then clean it out?

thanks.

Sorry, you used up your last question. :coolsmirk: Just kiddin.

With the on-the-floor-in-front-of-the-hearth setup, I would expect that you would want to have the liner connect to a cleanout tee. With that horiz. run, no soot will be falling into the stove.

PS: can you post a shot of the current setup so that we don't miss something?

mj5001 · Oct 18, 2011

haven't installed yet -- just joined the forum few days ago -- these costs are adding up, so may just do the liner for now and wait till it's in the budget for a stove. I'm a tightwad.

raiderfan · Oct 18, 2011

BeGreen said:
That depends... on the thickness and quality of the liner, whether it is a flex or rigid liner, and how aggressively it is cleaned. Flex liner is pretty thin stuff and should not be cleaned with a steep brush. The good news is that with a modern EPA stove burning good, dry wood in an interior chimney, there is not that much creosote accumulation. A light annual brushing is often sufficient in this case.

A rigid liner is much tougher, being made of 24 ga stainless. With decent care it should last a lifetime. Flex should also have a decent lifespan, but I don't know what its limit is. Any sweeps care to comment on the oldest flex liner they are sweeping?

so while we are sort of "on-topic" with liners, I have a question. Does a flex liner collect more creosote because of the ridges/groves of the flexible liner, compared to the smooth rigid liner?

Reason I ask is that over the weekend I had someone complaining to me about having his chimney lined with a flex liner (wondered why the sweep just wouldn't use a rigid one) because he was concerned the the grooves in the flex would get all clogged up with creosote and that even with cleaning, the brush would pack that "gunk" into those grooves.

Any truths to his concerns? I told him that I haven't even seen too many rigid liner jobs around here. Anyone that I know that got their chimney lined had it done with flex. So I was inclined to think those concerns weren't valid. Thanks!

begreen · Oct 18, 2011

MJ5 said:
haven't installed yet -- just joined the forum few days ago -- these costs are adding up, so may just do the liner for now and wait till it's in the budget for a stove. I'm a tightwad.

Before pictures very helpful so that we can spot issues you have not mentioned. Catching them now can save u $.

tfdchief · Oct 18, 2011

raiderfan said:
so while we are sort of "on-topic" with liners, I have a question. Does a flex liner collect more creosote because of the ridges/groves of the flexible liner, compared to the smooth rigid liner?

Reason I ask is that over the weekend I had someone complaining to me about having his chimney lined with a flex liner (wondered why the sweep just wouldn't use a rigid one) because he was concerned the the grooves in the flex would get all clogged up with creosote and that even with cleaning, the brush would pack that "gunk" into those grooves.

Any truths to his concerns? I told him that I haven't even seen too many rigid liner jobs around here. Anyone that I know that got their chimney lined had it done with flex. So I was inclined to think those concerns weren't valid. Thanks!

I have a flex liner connected to my old pre-EPA Buck Stove. It of course produces a little more creosote than my Hampton EPA stove, even though I burn it as efficiently as possible. When I sweep it, it ends up 95 % clean. Yes, looking down it there is a combination of shiny S/S metal, and stuff still in the grooves. But from a practical stand point, what is left in the grooves doesn't really matter in my opinion.......it is clean.

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