VC Encore Tips and tricks anyone?

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BrowningBAR

Minister of Fire
Jul 22, 2008
7,607
San Tan Valley, AZ
I have a small fire going; three small splits and some cedar shake kindling. Stove top griddle easily got to 500-600 and I have a good draft. The small fire is tough to judge when I would normally engage the cat as the griddle/top of stove is at 500-600 but the rest of the stove was below 200 due to the fact that the majority of the firebox is not in use right now.

I engaged the cat about 30 minutes into the fire to see what would happen. I had some smoke from the chimney so I dis-engaged the cat and let the stove burn in updraft mode for a while longer. Switched back to cat with the air wide open and slowly cut back the air to about half open. Stove top is at about 450 and no smoke from the chimney.

Sides of the stove are still at about 200 degrees and slowly climbing. I'm only using about a quarter of the firebox right now.

I'm all ears to anybody with info on running a cat version of the VC Encore. Right now everything seems to be as it should, so far...


Installation side note: Holy crap, it sucks.
 
Of course I don't have an Encore, but it sounds to me like you got it. The only thing I would caution is bringing the cat up to temp in a cold firebox if your cat is ceramic - due to thermal shock. You might want to let the firebox to heat up a bit more to mitigate that potential and then dial way down for a cat only burn. Are the Encores made for a cat temp probe access - that would give you some great feedback on your cat temps.

The burn you describe, cat only driven heat, is the way we burn our Keystone when we don't need a some lower heat output with a clean burn. It's amazing how we see only a few embers glowing, yet no smoke out the chimney and only the stove top heating to 500+ degrees. BTW, in our stove, I think the stove top temp is expecially driven by the proximity of the cat to it - right under the stove top. I'm not sure the path of the Encore, I know my Dad's Endore cat location was in the back of the stove. I don't recall how the flue gasses routed off the cat with respect to the griddle - driving it's temps.

I am traveling some today and yesterday and have stopped in a few stove stores and inspite of their past record, it's amazing how great these new VC stoves look. The Defiant especially has a large firebox. I could see some serious heat and burn times coming out of that stove. They also have what I believe the largest top access door for loading some big splits into the stove.

Good luck,
Bill
 
Hey Browning, good to hear you're firing up the VCE. Could you please post some pics so i can live vicariously through your experience?! ;-) As you know I never did get to see mine in action, however, if you have a ceramic cat it should be at least at 300 (cat temp) before you engage the cat. As you know "light off" won't usually occur until 1000 degree is reached. But the cat actually starts "working" around 700. The sides of that stove may not be as quick to heat up due to the double walls, especially with a small load, as you're probably aware. If you have an older cat, it may take a little longer to achieve light off than a brand new one. The SS cats will light off quicker, much quicker. The VCE, is a tough cat, especially without the cat probe, you can't see the cat glow or tell what the temperature is. I'd have a hard time not knowing the cat temp, as a previous DW owner, the cat probes are soooooo nice to have. Probe that feline! It'll give you peace of mind, extend your cat, refractory and stove life and save you on wood.
 
leeave96 said:
Of course I don't have an Encore, but it sounds to me like you got it. The only thing I would caution is bringing the cat up to temp in a cold firebox if your cat is ceramic - due to thermal shock. You might want to let the firebox to heat up a bit more to mitigate that potential and then dial way down for a cat only burn. Are the Encores made for a cat temp probe access - that would give you some great feedback on your cat temps.

The burn you describe, cat only driven heat, is the way we burn our Keystone when we don't need a some lower heat output with a clean burn. It's amazing how we see only a few embers glowing, yet no smoke out the chimney and only the stove top heating to 500+ degrees. BTW, in our stove, I think the stove top temp is expecially driven by the proximity of the cat to it - right under the stove top. I'm not sure the path of the Encore, I know my Dad's Endore cat location was in the back of the stove. I don't recall how the flue gasses routed off the cat with respect to the griddle - driving it's temps.

I am traveling some today and yesterday and have stopped in a few stove stores and inspite of their past record, it's amazing how great these new VC stoves look. The Defiant especially has a large firebox. I could see some serious heat and burn times coming out of that stove. They also have what I believe the largest top access door for loading some big splits into the stove.

Good luck,
Bill



The encore's cat is in the back portion of the stove, and that holds true for new and old VC's. This stove is completely different to the Intrepid it replaced. Stove top heats up a lot quicker and it is a lot easier to light. No idea why since I tested several types of wood with the Intrepid and always had inconsistent results.

Right now I have the Encore loaded at about 75% with the cat engaged and I'm getting the look that I expected when the cat was engaged properly. It's what I describe as underwater fire; slowly moving flames that look like drips/bubbles drifting upwards.

So far, no problems. Have not tried a low burn yet as I am keeping it simple right now to be sure the basics function the way I think they are suppose to.

VCs have/had a lot of issues, but, the fact is, the encore is the largest stove on the market that fits in that space. I could probably have done one of the Buck stoves, but they are top vent only and I wanted the stove to partially sit out from the fireplace.
 
VCBurner said:
Hey Browning, good to hear you're firing up the VCE. Could you please post some pics so i can live vicariously through your experience?! ;-) As you know I never did get to see mine in action, however, if you have a ceramic cat it should be at least at 300 (cat temp) before you engage the cat. As you know "light off" won't usually occur until 1000 degree is reached. But the cat actually starts "working" around 700. The sides of that stove may not be as quick to heat up due to the double walls, especially with a small load, as you're probably aware. If you have an older cat, it may take a little longer to achieve light off than a brand new one. The SS cats will light off quicker, much quicker. The VCE, is a tough cat, especially without the cat probe, you can't see the cat glow or tell what the temperature is. I'd have a hard time not knowing the cat temp, as a previous DW owner, the cat probes are soooooo nice to have. Probe that feline! It'll give you peace of mind, extend your cat, refractory and stove life and save you on wood.


Pics will come, I think I still need to post pics of the Heritage. And if I knew you wanted to live the experience that badly I would have gotten you over here to help with the install :lol: ... have I mentioned how much that sucked, yet?

The stove came with two cats. An older used one that looks like it came from VC and an unused Condar cat, which is not stainless. The old cat was in great shape, but I'm using the new cat to be sure if I have any issues with the new stove it wasn't due to the cat. The cat definitely lit off a better with a bigger load of wood.

You already convinced me to do a probe based on previous posts. Right now it is not probed, and will not be probed for at least a month or two as I am tired of working on stoves at this point (I did a lot of work to the Vigilant and I pretty much did a rebuild on the Encore, plus the installation). I'm tired!
 
BAR,

I have been thinking about any disadvantage to engaging the cat early. Perhaps it might get a soot layer? Would that burn off when it finally did get hot? Does running exhaust through a cat before it reaches ignition temperature cause thermal shock? Would early engagement keep thermal shock out of the equation? I thought about stove pipe surface temperature as the best indication. If I go to downdraft when the stovepipe surface temperature hits 400 °F, the internal gas temperature must be much higher. That should kick the cat into gear. The maximum Δ T might be (600 - 100 °F) 500 °F. That would not shock ceramic or steel for that matter.

We are running very small top down fires. The griddle gets up to 400 - 500 °F quickly. When I do engage the cat, the stovepipe temperature goes down smoothly and the fire slows, but firebox keeps running at temperature(400). Chimney runs clear, so that is either small hot fire or cat working. Stovepipe runs in high 200s at collar down to low 200s at chimney connector.

I have back and bottom heat shields, so no location to get a temperature of the back of the stove. Somehow the stove keeps the heat from getting into the flue, but where on the stove does that heat show up as increased surface temperature? Perhaps the difference is not easily measured on the stove surface.

The primary air thermostat seems to work. It will hold the temperature until it finally runs out of fuel and starts dropping off. That pretty well uncouples firebox temperature from cat operation temperature.

I would like to find a spot on the collar or stove that I could correlate with cat operation. Trudging out into the woods to see the flue exit is going to get old. I don't want to drill and place a probe into the cat.
 
BrowningBAR said:
Pics will come, I think I still need to post pics of the Heritage. And if I knew you wanted to live the experience that badly I would have gotten you over here to help with the install :lol: ... have I mentioned how much that sucked, yet?

The stove came with two cats. An older used one that looks like it came from VC and an unused Condar cat, which is not stainless. The old cat was in great shape, but I'm using the new cat to be sure if I have any issues with the new stove it wasn't due to the cat. The cat definitely lit off a better with a bigger load of wood.

You already convinced me to do a probe based on previous posts. Right now it is not probed, and will not be probed for at least a month or two as I am tired of working on stoves at this point (I did a lot of work to the Vigilant and I pretty much did a rebuild on the Encore, plus the installation). I'm tired!

I hear you! Sometimes you just want to see flames and heat after fiddling around so much. I get like that too. I'm also in the middle of my pellet stove install. I hope to see flames this Monday.

I'm glad to hear though that you're thinking about the probe, I was always curious about those digital ones! They look like a nice tool. Never got to buy one and won't need one now.

Good luck with your VCE, it sounds like you're on a good path!
 
JimboM said:
BAR,

I have been thinking about any disadvantage to engaging the cat early. Perhaps it might get a soot layer? Would that burn off when it finally did get hot? Does running exhaust through a cat before it reaches ignition temperature cause thermal shock? Would early engagement keep thermal shock out of the equation? I thought about stove pipe surface temperature as the best indication. If I go to downdraft when the stovepipe surface temperature hits 400 °F, the internal gas temperature must be much higher. That should kick the cat into gear. The maximum Δ T might be (600 - 100 °F) 500 °F. That would not shock ceramic or steel for that matter.

We are running very small top down fires. The griddle gets up to 400 - 500 °F quickly. When I do engage the cat, the stovepipe temperature goes down smoothly and the fire slows, but firebox keeps running at temperature(400). Chimney runs clear, so that is either small hot fire or cat working. Stovepipe runs in high 200s at collar down to low 200s at chimney connector.

I have back and bottom heat shields, so no location to get a temperature of the back of the stove. Somehow the stove keeps the heat from getting into the flue, but where on the stove does that heat show up as increased surface temperature? Perhaps the difference is not easily measured on the stove surface.

The primary air thermostat seems to work. It will hold the temperature until it finally runs out of fuel and starts dropping off. That pretty well uncouples firebox temperature from cat operation temperature.

I would like to find a spot on the collar or stove that I could correlate with cat operation. Trudging out into the woods to see the flue exit is going to get old. I don't want to drill and place a probe into the cat.


Top down works really well with this stove so far. I'm going to replace the griddle gasket with an over-sized traditional gasket. I try the griddle gasket every time and I have never had a good seal with those things.

I can relate to going outside to check for smoke. I was standing outside at 3 am last night with a flashlight pointed at the chimney.
 
BrowningBAR said:
...
I can relate to going outside to check for smoke. I was standing outside at 3 am last night with a flashlight pointed at the chimney.

:) I have done that. Wife thinks I am crazy.
 
Look like you got it. FWIW make sure to check that the secondary air intake is functioning properly. They can sometimes "stick"
 
JimboM said:
BrowningBAR said:
...
I can relate to going outside to check for smoke. I was standing outside at 3 am last night with a flashlight pointed at the chimney.

:) I have done that. Wife thinks I am crazy.

Mark me down, been there, done that, and still do it on occasion. Oh and yes wife still thinks I am crazy although she has grown accustomed to it by now.

Sahwn
 
wvstriper said:
Look like you got it. FWIW make sure to check that the secondary air intake is functioning properly. They can sometimes "stick"


Thanks for the heads up. Everything seems to be functioning correctly at this point.

My draft was my one concern since this was an old Encore I could not find the 6" flue collar anywhere and had to go with the 8" oval collar with an oval to round connector, which then connected to a 6" reducer, which then connected into a "T".

But the draft is just as strong as before and no signs of any back puffing.
 
6 hour burn so far from a cold start with the firebox 75% full. Not bad. The stove top is still in the mid-300s. Probably could have gotten longer if I wasn't messing with the air and the cat/updraft settings for the first 90 minutes to see how the fire and temps reacted.

Hopefully this translates to easy overnight burns and good burn times when the weather turns ugly in the next two and a half months. 8 hours between reloads would be ideal.
 
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