oak connection question

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mpcm

mpcm

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Oct 1, 2010
93
Sandown, NH
www.mpcm.com
I was considering installing an oak on my empress, while looking at the back of it recently... It appears to just mount onto the outside of the back outside wall of the stove.

Is this the normal setup, in essence connecting the outside air source just to the stove back?

The manual does not really specify much detail about it, related to the stove connections itself. So perhaps it is that simple and there is nothing else that needs connecting inside the stove unit?

Do people install dampeners of the air intake so that it can be closed off during times when the stove is not running?
 
What you see is what you get.

I guess you could install a damper if you wanted to. I don't have one on mine.

I use Silver foil tape to make the connection to my stove. That way in the Summer I can disconnect it completely and not have warm humid air rust up the inside of my stove. I did that the first year and it won't happen again.

Basically you need an outside air source, some ducting (I used flex muffler pipe) and some fittings. You are not supposed to use PVC.

Good Luck,
---Nailer---
 
I have an Windsor (predecessor to the Empress) and I believe it's designed the same way - just has what looks like the outside air connection tube /inlet built into the back of the panel, but it goes nowhere - doesn't continue to the air intake of the stove. There was a post a while back on this very subject and I think the conscenus was that just hooking it up this way really wouldn't work out, I think the general opinion was that it would just let more cold air into the 'general vicinity'. I really don't know why Enviro did this, maybe it's there as a 'guide' to thread the OAK through and then connect to the actual stove - which is what I believe many people do.

BTW: I never hooked up an OAK to my Windsor. I also have a Enviro Maxx and it did come with an internal butterfly damper built into the air inlet for the OAK.
 
Quadrafire makes a similar set-up. Kinda goes into nothing..
I did quite a bit of sealing on my stove in several areas to ensure I was getting almost 100% outside air.

Even without sealing, I would look at it this way. The air will take the path of least resistance. If you have no OAK, the air comes in through the drafty areas (negative pressure) of your home. If you run with the OAK, it will more than likely keep the pressure in your house at a normal level and wont pull air in through your leaky/drafty areas..

The only time this would have an ill effect, is when your stove is not running... Thats the main reason, I sealed mine. Dont know how the Enviro is, but with a little thought and a lot of high temp silicone, I got it done. I also run my stove 24/7 in the coldest months on low. I have never had a problem with the cold air coming in.

You can take the warm air in your house and burn it up and send it out the flue, allowing cold air to come into your bedroom/bathroom/kitchen... Or you can run an OAK and use outside air and let your heated air go to the bedroom/bathroom/kitchen.....

People also say your fire will burn "Colder" if you bring in 10* air... Well think of it like this. Say the flames are over 1,000* .... That flame cant tell the 60* difference in 10* air or 65* air. Cold air is also more dense than warm air. Which is better for combustion. IMHO.
 
nailed_nailer said:
What you see is what you get.

I guess you could install a damper if you wanted to. I don't have one on mine.

I use Silver foil tape to make the connection to my stove. That way in the Summer I can disconnect it completely and not have warm humid air rust up the inside of my stove. I did that the first year and it won't happen again.

Good Luck,
---Nailer---
Click to expand...
Ah, the advantage of living in semi-desert... Very little humidity, so I don't have that problem.
 
So... for those of you who have an oak installed, does it connect to the back wall of the stove, but provide air from the outside to the convection blower housing, wiring, control board, auger, etc.?

Or does your oak also connect from the interior wall of the stove to the air intake tube that feeds directly to the burn pot/chamber?
 
My OAK connects directly to the intake tube for the burn pot. All of the OAK air goes into the burnpot. No need for air to go to the wiring or convection blower or control board.
 
My Englander 25-PDVC's outside air inlet is piped through the floor into my furnace room (finished basement). The stove itself is in the livingroom, center of the house, main floor, where we used to have a woodstove. I had installed a 5" steel duct years ago for a dryer outlet, running through the floor joist space to the outside. I connected the 2" flex-duct from the stove to some dryer piping, then into the 5" ductwork. Thus, I feed the burnpot directly with outside air. Works great. The exhaust piping BTW goes into the old Selkirk. I had to make a special adapter for the pellet pipe, as no one seems to make this piece.
 
Check with your stove maker, sometimes additional things such as an air guide to get the OAK connected to the actual air intake on the stove are needed.

My stove has a hole in the back casing wall through which the OAK tubing passes and then that tubing connects directly to the air intake that goes to the burn pot.
 
I have a Santa Fe and I was going to install an OAK today. But wondering if I should. First the OAK gets connected to the rear panel not directly to the intake. Also there are plenty of gaps on the side panels for room air to get in there. I understand Dexter's point about sealing these gaps but I really didn't want to get too involved in this project. If I don't seal is an OAK a waste of time or counterproductive. I know Dexter explained this but was just wondering if there are any other opinions are out there.
 
nailed_nailer said:
Basically you need an outside air source, some ducting (I used flex muffler pipe) and some fittings. You are not supposed to use PVC.

Good Luck,
---Nailer---
Click to expand...

Is there a reason why PVC couldn't be used for OAK? I don't see any ill affects since it is pulling in cold air and is not connected to anything that will get hot enough to melt it but wonder if there is any other reason. I don't have oak on mine and don't even know if that opening in the back of my stove is actually connected directly to the burn pot but was planning on it and using black PVC 1 1/2" pipe
 
ITBURNS(AKA pelletnubi) said:
nailed_nailer said:
Basically you need an outside air source, some ducting (I used flex muffler pipe) and some fittings. You are not supposed to use PVC.

Good Luck,
---Nailer---
Click to expand...

Is there a reason why PVC couldn't be used for OAK? I don't see any ill affects since it is pulling in cold air and is not connected to anything that will get hot enough to melt it but wonder if there is any other reason. I don't have oak on mine and don't even know if that opening in the back of my stove is actually connected directly to the burn pot but was planning on it and using black PVC 1 1/2" pipe
Click to expand...

Under certain conditions the venting (which includes the air intake) can reverse flow, this also means it is possible for the OAK to be exposed to hot flue gases.

Thus it must be metal.
 
Why put plastic anywhere near your stove!? Make sure it's all metal...

For those of you with oak's already installed, do your oaks continue into the cavity of the stove and connect directly to burn put intake tube?

The enviro empress manual does not really specify this aspect of it, I'll try to get an answer from my dealer this week on if that is how it should be installed or if it should just go to the back of the stove.
 
SmokeyTheBear said:
ITBURNS(AKA pelletnubi) said:
nailed_nailer said:
Basically you need an outside air source, some ducting (I used flex muffler pipe) and some fittings. You are not supposed to use PVC.

Good Luck,
---Nailer---
Click to expand...

Is there a reason why PVC couldn't be used for OAK? I don't see any ill affects since it is pulling in cold air and is not connected to anything that will get hot enough to melt it but wonder if there is any other reason. I don't have oak on mine and don't even know if that opening in the back of my stove is actually connected directly to the burn pot but was planning on it and using black PVC 1 1/2" pipe
Click to expand...

Under certain conditions the venting (which includes the air intake) can reverse flow, this also means it is possible for the OAK to be exposed to hot flue gases.

Thus it must be metal.
Click to expand...

Didn't know that a reverse flow condition would be possible since the exhaust fan on mine runs for minutes after the burn pot is completely burned out when I shut it down. I guess not all pellet stoves are alike and anything is possible if electric goes out. If I worked mine 24/7 I would be more worried about a melt down if I did have a pvc oak setup. I only run mine a few hours a day and only when someone is home and was considering an oak setup but still debating if I really need it for just the amount of time it runs. I think my wood stove needs it more.
 
ITBURNS(AKA pelletnubi) said:
SmokeyTheBear said:
ITBURNS(AKA pelletnubi) said:
nailed_nailer said:
Basically you need an outside air source, some ducting (I used flex muffler pipe) and some fittings. You are not supposed to use PVC.

Good Luck,
---Nailer---
Click to expand...

Is there a reason why PVC couldn't be used for OAK? I don't see any ill affects since it is pulling in cold air and is not connected to anything that will get hot enough to melt it but wonder if there is any other reason. I don't have oak on mine and don't even know if that opening in the back of my stove is actually connected directly to the burn pot but was planning on it and using black PVC 1 1/2" pipe
Click to expand...

Under certain conditions the venting (which includes the air intake) can reverse flow, this also means it is possible for the OAK to be exposed to hot flue gases.

Thus it must be metal.
Click to expand...

Didn't know that a reverse flow condition would be possible since the exhaust fan on mine runs for minutes after the burn pot is completely burned out when I shut it down. I guess not all pellet stoves are alike and anything is possible if electric goes out. If I worked mine 24/7 I would be more worried about a melt down if I did have a pvc oak setup. I only run mine a few hours a day and only when someone is home and was considering an oak setup but still debating if I really need it for just the amount of time it runs. I think my wood stove needs it more.
Click to expand...

Only works in the right direction if the combustion fan can overpower any other air mover that takes air out of the structure the stove is in and the structure allows enough air infiltration to replace what is being sucked out.

If your combustion fan fails it can also find its way out the intake ....

It should also be mentioned that like on the "vent" side of the venting setup OAKs also have limits on diameter, bends, and length. Funny that.

One should never assume that what is attached or part of your stove has to be safe only when the stove is working properly.

A stove is most dangerous when it is in a failure mode because any little flaw in the installation can rise up and bite really hard.
 
mpcm said:
Why put plastic anywhere near your stove!? Make sure it's all metal...

For those of you with oak's already installed, do your oaks continue into the cavity of the stove and connect directly to burn put intake tube?

The enviro empress manual does not really specify this aspect of it, I'll try to get an answer from my dealer this week on if that is how it should be installed or if it should just go to the back of the stove.
Click to expand...

On the Sante Fe and Castile inserts, the OAK tubing comes THROUGH the hole in the back and terminates at a hole in the back (Castile) or right side (Sante Fe) of the ash pan/burn pot area. Like Dexter said, the design of the area really sucks as far as air tightness goes.
 

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