econoburn

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Mauler

Member
Jun 19, 2008
71
Southern New York
long time lurker here who has spent a lot of time reading the great info here.

I'm finally making the plunge and have an econoburn 100 on order. My only question (for now) is whther I should have opted for the econoburn 150. The hvac guy I talked to has a 100 and says based on my house and heat calc that the 100 should be plenty, but I'm reading that maybe slightly oversizing might be a good idea. I have a 10yo 2700 sq ft center hall colonial with good insulation. I currently spend about $4000/yr in oil for my hydronic baseboard heat with 2 above grade zones and one small below grade zone (300 sq ft basement). The oil system is rated for about 120000btu. The 100 will go in an outshed 40 feet from house with ecoflex 1", not going to use glycol. I'm going to stub out for future storage option, but not right now. Currently have the trench open and prepped, very excited to get moving but don't want to undersize. Thoughts?

Thank you for any input.
 
An oversized gasser without storage is going to operate as a regular old outdoor wood boiler for more of the time than if the unit were smaller. Especially during the not-so-cold times of the season. It's going to idle more often.
 
DaveBP said:
An oversized gasser without storage is going to operate as a regular old outdoor wood boiler for more of the time than if the unit were smaller. Especially during the not-so-cold times of the season. It's going to idle more often.

thanks, I don't want that, and will try and shoot for high effeciency

will the addition of storage (in the future) leave me short with the 100? (hard to get storage up to temp with load, etc)
 
I’m finally making the plunge and have an econoburn 100 on order. My only question (for now) is whther I should have opted for the econoburn 150. The hvac guy I talked to has a 100 and says based on my house and heat calc that the 100 should be plenty, but I’m reading that maybe slightly oversizing might be a good idea. I have a 10yo 2700 sq ft center hall colonial with good insulation. I currently spend about $4000/yr in oil for my hydronic baseboard heat with 2 above grade zones and one small below grade zone (300 sq ft basement). The oil system is rated for about 120000btu. The 100 will go in an outshed 40 feet from house with ecoflex 1â€, not going to use glycol. I’m going to stub out for future storage option, but not right now. Currently have the trench open and prepped, very excited to get moving but don’t want to undersize.

I went a little undersized myself. I have about 4000 sq. ft. and my garage with in-floor heating in it(about 900sq. ft.). So 4900 sq. ft. give or take. The basement does not have to be heated. (Even though it is with the heat that radiates off the boiler, which is great.) So now I am down to 3900. The garage is super insulated with closed cell spray foam and insulated doors. I only keep that at 45Deg. And the living space above that, about 900 sq. ft. as well) is only kept at 63-65. The other 2000 is all kept at 68-70Deg. I have a 400 gallon insulated storage tank. In the middle of the winter my boiler is probably going to be running wide open to keep the house and garage and domestic hot water demands met. That is a good thing. I think. During the shoulder seasons of fall and spring the boiler still runs wide open, with the right amount of wood in it, and dumps all that energy into the storage tank. So my boiler is always running wide open. Hopefully. This is my first season with it. And so far it is running wide open, twice a day now for a 2-3 hour burn to keep temp. of tank up. If your boiler runs wide open, it will be stay cleaner and more efficient. I don't know what your calculations call for but I think you should be okay. Are you going to heat your DHW? Do you have dry wood? Good luck and keep us posted, with pictures. People on here like that. My boiler room is not done yet, so I am waiting until it is. Always something coming up to keep that from getting done. :roll:
 
You can reduce the amount of idling from an oversized boiler by running smaller fires whenever possible, along the lines of a wood stove. We do that with our 150 in the basement, and it works out very well for us. But with an outside installation, you will not be happy doing that, so Dave's point is well-taken. However, a flip side argument is that some folks with smaller boilers and storage have reported that they would have preferred a larger unit, in order to make recharging storage easier. Based on my experience with the 150 and a slightly smaller house, you may struggle a bit on design days (-10 or so for you ??). If you don't mind (maybe) supplementing with a bit of oil on a few days, and load more frequently on the cold days, then no big deal. IMO, you would be better off with a 150 and storage on day 1, but the 100 will probably work out ok for you. Good luck with it!
 
Gasifier said:
I’m finally making the plunge and have an econoburn 100 on order. My only question (for now) is whther I should have opted for the econoburn 150. The hvac guy I talked to has a 100 and says based on my house and heat calc that the 100 should be plenty, but I’m reading that maybe slightly oversizing might be a good idea. I have a 10yo 2700 sq ft center hall colonial with good insulation. I currently spend about $4000/yr in oil for my hydronic baseboard heat with 2 above grade zones and one small below grade zone (300 sq ft basement). The oil system is rated for about 120000btu. The 100 will go in an outshed 40 feet from house with ecoflex 1â€, not going to use glycol. I’m going to stub out for future storage option, but not right now. Currently have the trench open and prepped, very excited to get moving but don’t want to undersize.

I went a little undersized myself. I have about 4000 sq. ft. and my garage with in-floor heating in it(about 900sq. ft.). So 4900 sq. ft. give or take. The basement does not have to be heated. (Even though it is with the heat that radiates off the boiler, which is great.) So now I am down to 3900. The garage is super insulated with closed cell spray foam and insulated doors. I only keep that at 45Deg. And the living space above that, about 900 sq. ft. as well) is only kept at 63-65. The other 2000 is all kept at 68-70Deg. I have a 400 gallon insulated storage tank. In the middle of the winter my boiler is probably going to be running wide open to keep the house and garage and domestic hot water demands met. That is a good thing. I think. During the shoulder seasons of fall and spring the boiler still runs wide open, with the right amount of wood in it, and dumps all that energy into the storage tank. So my boiler is always running wide open. Hopefully. This is my first season with it. And so far it is running wide open, twice a day now for a 2-3 hour burn to keep temp. of tank up. If your boiler runs wide open, it will be stay cleaner and more efficient. I don't know what your calculations call for but I think you should be okay. Are you going to heat your DHW? Do you have dry wood? Good luck and keep us posted, with pictures. People on here like that. My boiler room is not done yet, so I am waiting until it is. Always something coming up to keep that from getting done. :roll:

I will heat DHW, and have 3 children so that's a priority (currently its an oil fired hydronic indirect via coil in 60 gallon tank). Wide open is preferred I'm sure, I just don't want the unit to struggle to keep up. From what I'm hearing it shouldn't be problem, but wanted to get some feedback from the forum. I've never run a wood boiler, just fireplaces, but I've burned them as if they were a heating unit. They do help but nothing like the lure of a whole house/DHW unit has to offer. I have about 7 cord mostly ash and hickory split and stacked for about a year, uncovered stacks, sun/wind etc. Thanks and I'll put photos once I make some progress.
 
new question

Econoburn 100 is being delivered via tractor trailer, and is curbside drop off. This thing weighs in excess of 1500lbs, and my gravel driveway is 800-900 ft long. My little kubota can't pick that weight up with the forks, so not sure what to do. I supose I could rent a bigger machine to bring it up to the house, but that's just added cost, anybody have other alternatives?

Thanks in advance
 
Any farmers nearby with a bigger tractor? A case of cold ones might just get it done........ :cheese:
 
Getting it down your driveway may be the easy part. Rent a bobcat for a couple hundred or a pallet jack with a couple sheets of plywood. I'd worry about getting it into your basement.
 
Are you sure the truck doesn't have a lift gate?

My 200 came on a truck with a gate, the driver had a pallet jack and we pushed it into my garage, but I do have a paved driveway. Do you have any kind of trailer to set it on?

I hired the farmer to place it in my boiler shed with his articulating John Deere loader with a telescoping boom. The money you will spend to move it will be pennies compared to what it will cost to get the system set up properly.

gg
 
i had my unit delivered to a place of business that had a fork truck. Met the driver, they unloaded it onto my pickup. But as goose said, thats the easy part. the basement will be tricky/dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. Might be able to get some riggers(thats insured) to unload and "drop" into basement? Not a cheap way, but 1500lbs is something that can be dangerous if not handled correctly.
 
Mauler,

I don't know if you have a farmer around or someone else with a piece of equipment. But this is another idea. If you look around at the local towing garages someone might have the right kind of tow truck. Fortunately for me my brother had a wrecker that had a teloscopic boom on it. Some garages have them. Especially one who has several tow trucks. My brother has several tow trucks and this one has a boom that has two seperate winches on it. This allowed us to lift from the top, which is where most of these boilers have a lifting ring. Then we were able to lay it on the ground on its side (on top of a piece of heavy plywood) and then put a short chain with a hook on both ends on the bottom. Lifted with the other winch and were able to slide it through the cellar window. My cellar window is a pretty good size one for a basement window though. Something else to consider. Good luck man. Keep us posted, with pictures of course. And take your time and be careful! Oh, Wood Gun came on a truck with a lift gate as well. They should be able to set it right close to your garage or house. As long as your driveway will support their truck. :coolsmile:
 
Mauler said:
new question

Econoburn 100 is being delivered via tractor trailer, and is curbside drop off. This thing weighs in excess of 1500lbs, and my gravel driveway is 800-900 ft long. My little kubota can't pick that weight up with the forks, so not sure what to do. I supose I could rent a bigger machine to bring it up to the house, but that's just added cost, anybody have other alternatives?

Thanks in advance
You could try to roll it on 1" plywood(2 sheets & alternate). Use 1" black pipe for the rollers. If your driveway isn't very flat you might run into problems, Randy
 
appreciate all the suggestions guys, but I've been rushing this project (I thought I wouldn't start till next year, but just couldn't wait any longer). The indoor 100 was going to go in an outdoor shed, but I don't even have that built! So time is my enemy, and I just don't have that much time to build the shed (and I don't want to pay someone to do it). What I've decided is I'm going to go the easy route and get the econoburn 150 outdoor unit. The indoor unit was only ordered 2 days ago so I'm hoping that won't be a problem with the factory (call in tommorrow). When I factor the costs of building a larger completely insulated weathertight shed (which would have to look pretty) I think I'll actually be ahead on cost with the outdoor unit. Regardless I'll rent a machine (one of the GEHL forklifts I think) and just place on a smaller concrete pad that I can pour myself (vs the large concrete pad I was planning and would have hired out). If all goes well I might get to fire it this coming season. So far all I have done is the 3 foot deep trench dug and waiting on uponors insulated pex pipe. Tried to attach trench picture but it was too big.

I've read every thread on the econoburn 150 outdoor unit, and only came across a few issues, any comments are welcome pro or con.

for the pad I was thinking 5 x 5, maybe 6" or 8" thick reinforced with rebar. I've got a cement mixer and will just use bagged stuff for the pour. The unit weighs about 2000 pounds, think thats enough pad?

Also, having a hard time figuring how the insulated pipe should approach the unit? Is there a schematic for the pad? I've seen central boilers pad schematic and there was a notch for the pipe, wondering what it is for the econoburn? Am I a newbie or what.....thanks again
 
Mauler said:
appreciate all the suggestions guys, but I've been rushing this project (I thought I wouldn't start till next year, but just couldn't wait any longer). The indoor 100 was going to go in an outdoor shed, but I don't even have that built! So time is my enemy, and I just don't have that much time to build the shed (and I don't want to pay someone to do it). What I've decided is I'm going to go the easy route and get the econoburn 150 outdoor unit. The indoor unit was only ordered 2 days ago so I'm hoping that won't be a problem with the factory (call in tommorrow). When I factor the costs of building a larger completely insulated weathertight shed (which would have to look pretty) I think I'll actually be ahead on cost with the outdoor unit. Regardless I'll rent a machine (one of the GEHL forklifts I think) and just place on a smaller concrete pad that I can pour myself (vs the large concrete pad I was planning and would have hired out). If all goes well I might get to fire it this coming season. So far all I have done is the 3 foot deep trench dug and waiting on uponors insulated pex pipe. Tried to attach trench picture but it was too big.

I've read every thread on the econoburn 150 outdoor unit, and only came across a few issues, any comments are welcome pro or con.

for the pad I was thinking 5 x 5, maybe 6" or 8" thick reinforced with rebar. I've got a cement mixer and will just use bagged stuff for the pour. The unit weighs about 2000 pounds, think thats enough pad?

Also, having a hard time figuring how the insulated pipe should approach the unit? Is there a schematic for the pad? I've seen central boilers pad schematic and there was a notch for the pipe, wondering what it is for the econoburn? Am I a newbie or what.....thanks again
Normally a 4" pad would be fine, it's late in the season & you will want to put weight on it soon. A 6" pad with Home Depot Quickrete 5000 should do great. This is good stuff for the price. Randy
 
Just a few things you may want to consider.

1. Outdoor model is much harder to leave unattended. We went to Mexico last year and it was 15 below zero here. My underground lines are 6' down. They come up into my boiler shed and my attached garage. I can keep both heated by other means if we want to travel. No need to have someone fill boiler.

2. My wife actually enjoys going to the boiler shed when I am at work. It is 85 degrees inside and has flurescent lights.

3. Gasification works much better with warm air and really dry wood.

4. Wood really drys out nice in the boiler shed.


If you are set on getting it going now you could always poor the slab large enough to build a shed around the outdoor boiler in the spring. Honestly after having a used OWB for a year, it is night and day difference having the unit inside a nice warm, dry shelter.

gg
 
Also read over your original post again. If you do go with the 100 indoor make sure it is big enough. Go over your heat loss, if your oil boiler is 120,000 btu does it keep up ok. Remember the 100 is not throughout the whole burn. Did the factory feel the 100 was big enough?

Gg
 
If you are set on getting it going now you could always poor the slab large enough to build a shed around the outdoor boiler in the spring. Honestly after having a used OWB for a year, it is night and day difference having the unit inside a nice warm, dry shelter.

gg


Mauler,

I could not agree more with goose. Build the pad much bigger than you need. Take your time and plan it out right. Then poor it. I would suggest a building large enough to get all around the boiler, at least three feet on all sides. So you can get around it and clean the boiler and the building itself. And why not make it big enough so that you can store some wood inside. Maybe 1/4 of a face cord. Makes it nice when you can go out and do your wood work when the weather is good and you want to do it. Then when the the weather is not good, or you don't feel like doing it you can just go out to the boiler building, put some wood and and close it up and be done with it. For example, late at night or early in the morning. Both times you might not feel like doing it. Make the building larger than you need. I would suggest at least 8'x10'. You can poor that yourself. Get someone to help you or pay someone that you can help. You will be glad you did in the end. Good luck man. Got wood for this year yet? If not, try to find a supplier who has some seasoned wood that is actually dry. (Seasoned for at least a year.) Will cost you the money, but you need dry wood.
 
I also strongly agree with the others....you are going to be MUCH happier if you have a building around your unit you can walk in, store some wood in, and deal with boiler things in. It very well could make the difference between happy owner and unhappy....I'd pour big enough to build on later. If you don't have nice dry wood to burn, then I'd suggest you wait until next year for the boiler and get your wood and building figured out. You don't want to rush this.
 
Mauler said:
appreciate all the suggestions guys, but I've been rushing this project (I thought I wouldn't start till next year, but just couldn't wait any longer). The indoor 100 was going to go in an outdoor shed, but I don't even have that built! So time is my enemy, and I just don't have that much time to build the shed (and I don't want to pay someone to do it). What I've decided is I'm going to go the easy route and get the econoburn 150 outdoor unit. The indoor unit was only ordered 2 days ago so I'm hoping that won't be a problem with the factory (call in tommorrow). When I factor the costs of building a larger completely insulated weathertight shed (which would have to look pretty) I think I'll actually be ahead on cost with the outdoor unit. Regardless I'll rent a machine (one of the GEHL forklifts I think) and just place on a smaller concrete pad that I can pour myself (vs the large concrete pad I was planning and would have hired out). If all goes well I might get to fire it this coming season. So far all I have done is the 3 foot deep trench dug and waiting on uponors insulated pex pipe. Tried to attach trench picture but it was too big.

I've read every thread on the econoburn 150 outdoor unit, and only came across a few issues, any comments are welcome pro or con.

for the pad I was thinking 5 x 5, maybe 6" or 8" thick reinforced with rebar. I've got a cement mixer and will just use bagged stuff for the pour. The unit weighs about 2000 pounds, think thats enough pad?

Also, having a hard time figuring how the insulated pipe should approach the unit? Is there a schematic for the pad? I've seen central boilers pad schematic and there was a notch for the pipe, wondering what it is for the econoburn? Am I a newbie or what.....thanks again

Mauler,

I think you made a good decision going with the 150. That unit will be big enough so that if you want to add storage in the future you can and it should not have any problem heating the house and storage. Think about that when you do the install. Would you put the storage tank in your basement? Can you get it down there? Garage? Can you run the lines to that? Or would you want it out with your boiler? Just something for you to think about. I can not tell you how glad I am that I put a storage tank in. And you can add that to your system next year or five years from now. It gives you more use of your boiler in the fall and spring. And other benefits as well. I would just think about how you are going to add it if you ever decide to. Remember, you can heat your hot water with one firing a day or every other day depending on size of your storage tank. I have been heating my hot water with wood since October 1st when I got the system on line. And there was no demand for heat from house. Good luck man. Pictures to keep us posted. :coolsmile:
 
You could always (I think) do what you are planning now (small slab outside), then enlarge the slab or pour over it with a bigger one later & build around it with a shed - long as it's in a place that would accomodate it, that is.
 
I want to chime in with several agreements with previous posters. 1) Pour your slab big enough for a boiler room. The number one reason I recommend this is my experience with drying wood in the room with my econoburn, I can literally kiln dry damp wood in two weeks, it is remarkable how fast wood will dry in there. I fell a bit behind last year with dry wood and had to resort to unseasoned wood, this turned out to be a bit of a life saver for me for wood supply. 2) slightly oversized is a good thing, but storage is essential. You do indeed want to minimize idling. I am going into my fifth season with my indoor 150, absolutely love the heat!
 
update

NY has some confusing regulations regarding wood boilers. My hvac guy talked with the factory and it sounds like they won't (or can't?) sell me an outdoor unit, whereas the indoor unit should be ok. I'm not sure that is correct but right now I'm back to installing the indoor 100 in a shed (which is what I wanted in the first place, especially reading the many threads on this forum). I hope the weather will hold and I can push this to completion.

so current plan is to pour a 10x10 pad for small shed before the unit arrives, rent machine and place on pad, then frame shed around it

wish me luck
 
Mauler said:
update

NY has some confusing regulations regarding wood boilers. My hvac guy talked with the factory and it sounds like they won't (or can't?) sell me an outdoor unit, whereas the indoor unit should be ok. I'm not sure that is correct but right now I'm back to installing the indoor 100 in a shed (which is what I wanted in the first place, especially reading the many threads on this forum). I hope the weather will hold and I can push this to completion.

so current plan is to pour a 10x10 pad for small shed before the unit arrives, rent machine and place on pad, then frame shed around it

wish me luck

Good luck man. It will work out for you. Even with the Econoburn 100 I would recommend storage in the future. I know you do not want to do it now, the money can be a lot with these systems. But something you can do in two steps. You could go with a small storage tank, what some here would call a buffer tank, like I did. Mine is about 400 gallons. Very glad I did it. So try to plan for when you install it in the future. A couple of ball valves, one on the supply and one on return so you can add in later without having to drain the whole system. Think about where you might put it when you do. A stand up in the boiler room itself, or down in the basement? How much height/space will you need. Lots to think about. Again, good luck. And keep asking questions. Lots of people on here with the knowledge you need when you get into the mix of the install.
 
I am seconding goosegunner, I am sure the outdoor unit is a good boiler, but I am glad I put mine in a outbuilding. Built it 20'X16' it holds 8cord of wood in one half and the boiler plus storage on the other insulated half. The building provides a nice dry space infront of the boiler to dry two weeks worth of wood down to 18% moisture and as goosegunner said it also provides warm combustion air which makes a difference. No body likes standing out in freezing rain trying to light a fire either

I was nervous about doing my pad as i had never run concrete, but I rented the equipment and had the concrete delivered for 1200$ Thats with a 12"x16" footing 4"slab and wire mesh.... went 12"x24" footing under the wall the storage was going on. just used oiled 2X10's as forms on the outside, the rest of the form was just dug out of the dirt.

Pour the big pad now, and you will atleast have a nice place to rank wood for the winter! plus you can build in the future.
 
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