In a Pinch....Need Help Burning Not-So-Seasoned Wood?!?!?

BurnIt13 · Oct 25, 2011

Before I get flamed to death...please let me explain

It's going to be a long one!

Lets pretend the following:
1. You've got a 115 year old house with zero insulation. Its not drafty but looses its heat fast enough.
2. Your main heating system is ancient as well. It is a steam radiator type system and the boiler has a crack (above the water line thankfully), and a few radiators have cracks as well and leak condensate everywhere...yay! So you're trying to use the main heating system as little as possible.
3. Your wife just gave birth to a NEWBORN and wants to keep the house as toasty as possible during this winter.
4. Your wife is also not working for the winter to take care of the newborn, so money it tight to say the least.
5. You have a little over 4 cords of OAK that was cut down in fall of 2010 and split spring of 2011. You were hoping to use this wood as your main fuel source this heating season.
6. You just installed a Englander 30 that has 22ft of double wall stovepipe/chimney pipe. Its a straight up and out through the interior of your house (with a single 1ft long 45 degree offset just before the ceiling).
7. You're not new to woodburning but new to using and maintaining your own stove on a regular basis.

Oh boy!

So as you may have figured out.... it's me!

So my wood has moisture content of 23-25% according to my moisture meter. It would be ideal for next season but it is what I've got, so I have to use it this season. There isn't any money left in the piggy bank to go buy "seasoned" wood from a dealer either.

So now that the disclaimers are out of the way, I've just started burning this stuff and had some trouble the past few nights. I have some very dry pine that I've cut into small strips for kindling. I grabbed a bunch of smaller splits and chunks for what I had hoped was going to be a quick hot fire. The oak had a heck of time lighting up!

The kindling had burned down and dissappeared and only some of the oak was barely on fire. I had to leave the door cracked for over an hour just to get a descent fire going. Even then, with the air on full blast it was getting pretty lazy and smokey. I threw some very dry pine splits on there and it finally took off. Even then I had to keep the air 50% open to keep the flue temps above 400 degrees (probe type thermometer).

The outside air temp was 55 degrees and a weak storm system was approaching, so that may not have helped.

So what is your advice for burning less than ideal wood?!?!? I've read plenty of times to mix it with some dry stuff...but the problem is, I don't have any dry stuff !!!

Thanks in advance !!!

!!

gzecc · Oct 25, 2011

Probably inaccurate moisture readings on the oak. You need to create a fresh split then check the moisture reading. Your oak will not be usable (in my opinion) for at least another year, unless it was dead and barkless for a few years before you CS+stacked it.
If I was in your shoes, I would look for pallets and anyone giving away already seasoned wood. It does come up from time to time. The oak is a lost cause (IMO), save for at least next year. Maybe you could trade some of your oak for some truly seasoned wood?

BrowningBAR · Oct 25, 2011

23-25% moisture isn't bad. It should burn okay, you might get the occasional sizzle., but you should be fine. How big are these splits?

begreen · Oct 25, 2011

I suspect the wood is wetter than 23%. If it is all oak, this could be a challenge. Get a top cover on it and consider restacking some in a dry place where you can set up some fans to blow through single row stacks. A garage or basement would work. The wood will dry out quicker in the house. Try to keep a week's worth spread out and drying inside. If you can beg, borrow or trade a reasonably dry cord of ash, do it.

Jags · Oct 25, 2011

Okay - in a fantasy world where a person doesn't have perfect wood to burn, I would suggest:
Split the oak smaller than normal. More surface, more flame
Get your hands on plenty of dry kindling. Pallets, construction cutoffs, etc.
Build a hot base to place the questionable wood on. (by the way - 23% MC is not really too bad, is this taken from the face of a freshly split piece?)

INSPECT your stack frequently. Like every couple of weeks. Your gonna be doing nasty stuff to that pipe. Sweep often.

Do you know anybody else that might have dry wood that you could trade? Even mixing dry and not so dry stuff will improve the burn. When it is ALL wet stuff it will be a monster.

Now, back to reality.

(man, these other posters are fast.

)

SKIN052 · Oct 25, 2011

You simply have to get some dry wood, somewhere. Pallets, trade some Oak for some dry wood from a friend. Additional, make sure your Oak is split rather small. Establish a good coal bed then toss on some of the Oak.

That or look at building one of those Pellet baskets. Not sure how much pellets cost in your neck of the woods but it's an idea.

Good luck

BrowningBAR · Oct 25, 2011

gzecc said:
Probably inaccurate moisture readings on the oak. You need to create a fresh split then check the moisture reading. Your oak will not be usable (in my opinion) for at least another year, unless it was dead and barkless for a few years before you CS+stacked it.
If I was in your shoes, I would look for pallets and anyone giving away already seasoned wood. It does come up from time to time. The oak is a lost cause (IMO), save for at least next year. Maybe you could trade some of your oak for some truly seasoned wood?

I've used some wet wood. If pallets aren't available, and cash is tight, once he has a good bed of coals it will burn and provide heat. It will be a pain in the ass and will require the stove door to be cracked open a long time, but it will burn.

begreen · Oct 25, 2011

+1 to Jag's tip. For sure, do not skip chimney cleaning. You should check the flue system monthly or after each cord has burned.

BrowningBAR · Oct 25, 2011

Jags said:
Okay - in a fantasy world where a person doesn't have perfect wood to burn, I would suggest:
Split the oak smaller than normal. More surface, more flame
Get your hands on plenty of dry kindling. Pallets, construction cutoffs, etc.
Build a hot base to place the questionable wood on. (by the way - 23% MC is not really too bad, is this taken from the face of a freshly split piece?)

INSPECT your stack frequently. Like every couple of weeks. Your gonna be doing nasty stuff to that pipe. Sweep often.

Do you know anybody else that might have dry wood that you could trade? Even mixing dry and not so dry stuff will improve the burn. When it is ALL wet stuff it will be a monster.

Now, back to reality.

(man, these other posters are fast. )

My first year burning was very much like this. I also ran some ugly wood through the Heritage last year to see what it was like. Small split and a good bed of coals and the wood will burn. It takes a while, and it's a pain, but it will burn and provide heat.

BurnIt13 · Oct 25, 2011

Wow thanks for the replies everyone! First off....the moisture reading was 20% or so when taken at the end or outside of an existing split. If I split one down the middle, that is where I'm getting the 23-26%. And that is on the thicker pieces. I will split open a smaller one tonight and take a reading.

All of the wood is 16-18" long. I just stacked it next to my porch on pallets facing the south. I also put a tarp covering the top to keep the water off of it. I know things don't dry well in the winter but I'm hoping the full sun will help things out a bit. I stacked it in my back yard this spring in what I thought would have been full sun. It was sunny until the trees came in and the sun started shifting closer towards the horizon.....lesson learned.

Looks like I'll be hunting down some clean pallets to help this winter.

Since I'm very paranoid about creosote build up and the potentials of a chimney fire I was planning on cleaning the flue at least once a month with a soot eater and a brush.

I also was planning on running stove top temps above 500 and flue temps above 450-500 to try and minimize creosote buildup.

Oh boy....

Stegman · Oct 25, 2011

SKIN052 said:
You simply have to get some dry wood, somewhere. Pallets, trade some Oak for some dry wood from a friend. Additional, make sure your Oak is split rather small. Establish a good coal bed then toss on some of the Oak.

That or look at building one of those Pellet baskets. Not sure how much pellets cost in your neck of the woods but it's an idea.

Good luck

I was thinking the same thing about a trade. Maybe try an ad on Craigslist looking to swap a couple of cords of your oak for someone's seasoned wood [maple, cherry, ash]. Explain your situation and maybe you'll find a sympathetic wood burner who is a couple of years ahead. Of course, then you have the trouble of swapping and stacking. But desperate times call for desperate measures.

BrowningBAR · Oct 25, 2011

BurnIt13 said:
Wow thanks for the replies everyone! First off....the moisture reading was 20% or so when taken at the end or outside of an existing split. If I split one down the middle, that is where I'm getting the 23-26%. And that is on the thicker pieces. I will split open a smaller one tonight and take a reading.

All of the wood is 16-18" long. I just stacked it next to my porch on pallets facing the south. I also put a tarp covering the top to keep the water off of it. I know things don't dry well in the winter but I'm hoping the full sun will help things out a bit. I stacked it in my back yard this spring in what I thought would have been full sun. It was sunny until the trees came in and the sun started shifting closer towards the horizon.....lesson learned.

Looks like I'll be hunting down some clean pallets to help this winter.

Since I'm very paranoid about creosote build up and the potentials of a chimney fire I was planning on cleaning the flue at least once a month with a soot eater and a brush.

I also was planning on running stove top temps above 500 and flue temps above 450-500 to try and minimize creosote buildup.

Oh boy....

If you are at 23-26% on a large, fresh split piece of oak, I wouldn't worry much about it. Start your fires with small splits. Dry or wet, it is a pain getting a fire going from a cold start with large splits. Go with small splits. Really small at first to be sure you get the hang of it.

wrxtance · Oct 25, 2011

How interesting. I'm in nearly the identical situation items 3-7... newborn and all but luckily for me, my house is a fair bit more insulated.

My wood is not oak but showing up to and over 35% moisture content on a fresh split face (15% on ends). I have found that rather than burning kindling down to hot coals and then adding your splits (as most owners manuals suggest) I get the kindling burning well then add the splits ASAP. It will then take a good 5-10 min. with the door cracked for the woods to take well. I then close the door and burn another 10 min. with air control wide open. Once THAT is happy, I shut the air down to 3/4 open and let the firebox build heat - up to about 350-400F (front of stove temp on an insert). Once I hit a good burn temp, I can shut the air down to 1/2 then finally about 1/4 and I get a nice burn and re-burn. My stove can now get up to 550F consistently with this method. Its a process for sure.

I am currently trying to procure a cord of dry(er) wood to mix in...

Gridlock · Oct 25, 2011

Another possibility may be to get some bio-bricks or other split wood alternative to help get the fire hot enough to burn the oak. It would cost a few bucks, but can help get you through the winter. These wood products are super dry, and can be used to get the fire going and added at stategic points during the burn, if the stove temperature drops too much due to the wet split wood.

Dune · Oct 25, 2011

I would seriously think about pallets. You should be able to find all you need.

I would burn something like two thirds pallets one third wet oak.

It is a bit of work, but you will have good hot fires.

I have processed thousands of pallets for firewood.

Make a stack about 4 high. Use a skill saw with a new cheap carbide blade.
Make two cuts parralel to the center runner and as close as possible. watch for nails.
Break off the slats you cut. Flip pallet over, repeat. Cut the runners at the spots where they are notched for forks.

The shame of it is the oak you have would lilely be good fuel for next year, but very poor fuel this year.
Store as much oak as you can in the stove room, hopefully two weeks worth. It will dry a little more.

daveswoodhauler · Oct 25, 2011

Where about in Central Mass are you?

BurnIt13 · Oct 25, 2011

The great town of Clinton, MA

daveswoodhauler · Oct 25, 2011

BurnIt13 said:
The great town of Clinton, MA

My in laws live in Clinton...small world.
I wish I had more seasoned wood and I could swap you some, but I am in a similar situation as I have a lot of oak that still doesn't appear to be as seasoned even after 2 years of being split and stacked.
If I were in your shoes, I would resplit your wood a little smaller, and definately pick up a soot eater. (I picked one up this year and love it)
I like having the soot eater on hand as if I am working with some marginal wood, I can clean more often.
Good luck

jimbom · Oct 25, 2011

BurnIt13 said:
Wow thanks for the replies everyone! First off....the moisture reading was 20% or so when taken at the end or outside of an existing split. If I split one down the middle, that is where I'm getting the 23-26%. And that is on the thicker pieces. I will split open a smaller one tonight and take a reading.

All of the wood is 16-18" long. I just stacked it next to my porch on pallets facing the south. I also put a tarp covering the top to keep the water off of it. I know things don't dry well in the winter but I'm hoping the full sun will help things out a bit. I stacked it in my back yard this spring in what I thought would have been full sun. It was sunny until the trees came in and the sun started shifting closer towards the horizon.....lesson learned.

Looks like I'll be hunting down some clean pallets to help this winter.

Since I'm very paranoid about creosote build up and the potentials of a chimney fire I was planning on cleaning the flue at least once a month with a soot eater and a brush.

I also was planning on running stove top temps above 500 and flue temps above 450-500 to try and minimize creosote buildup.

Oh boy....

+1

I am sure some wood expert will hammer me on this, but this is the understanding I have developed reading these forums. I am a little hazy on the moisture meter output.

Assume the net heating value (accounting for water of combustion) of an oven dry pound of wood is about 8,000 BTU.

If your moisture meter reading is 18%, that one pound of wood carries 1.18 pounds into the stove. The 0.18 pounds of water has to be evaporated which takes about 0.18 x 1100 BTU of energy = 200 BTU. You are left with 7,800 BTUs from your dry pound for heating the house. With a 70% total efficiency stove, .7 x 7,800 = 5460 BTUs into the heated space.

If your moisture meter reading is 25%, that one pound of wood carries 1.25 pounds into the stove. The 0.25 pounds of water has to be evaporated which takes about 0.25 x 1100 BTU of energy = 275 BTU. You are left with 7,725 BTUs from your dry pound for heating the house. With a 70% total efficiency stove, .7 x 7725 = 5400 BTUs into the heated space.

Seems to me the manner in which you operate the stove has more to do with the final output than a few percent difference in moisture content. Your plan to run it hot, load it frequently with small loads, and keep on top of chimney maintenance should work well.

maverick06 · Oct 25, 2011

burn burn burn.

a) sweep frequently, no big deal
b) bring some wood inside and let it dry by the fireplace for a while before burning. That will help get some humidity in the house and help dry it a bit.
c) once burning, maybe let it burn a bit hot/faster as there is more moisture to condense in teh stack.

If it is bubbling out the sides, then it might be more work than it is worth, otherwise you are good. I get my wood delivered split/green in the spring and I burn it the following winter. No problems here and minimal soot in the stack.

it seems very wet.... i would question the moisture meter... even for newly split

Good luck with the little one, My daughter is 4 months old, IT GETS EASIER! haha

gzecc · Oct 25, 2011

JimboM said:
BurnIt13 said:

Wow thanks for the replies everyone! First off....the moisture reading was 20% or so when taken at the end or outside of an existing split. If I split one down the middle, that is where I'm getting the 23-26%. And that is on the thicker pieces. I will split open a smaller one tonight and take a reading.

All of the wood is 16-18" long. I just stacked it next to my porch on pallets facing the south. I also put a tarp covering the top to keep the water off of it. I know things don't dry well in the winter but I'm hoping the full sun will help things out a bit. I stacked it in my back yard this spring in what I thought would have been full sun. It was sunny until the trees came in and the sun started shifting closer towards the horizon.....lesson learned.

Looks like I'll be hunting down some clean pallets to help this winter.

Since I'm very paranoid about creosote build up and the potentials of a chimney fire I was planning on cleaning the flue at least once a month with a soot eater and a brush.

I also was planning on running stove top temps above 500 and flue temps above 450-500 to try and minimize creosote buildup.

Oh boy....

Click to expand...

+1

I am sure some wood expert will hammer me on this, but this is the understanding I have developed reading these forums. I am a little hazy on the moisture meter output.

Assume the net heating value (accounting for water of combustion) of an oven dry pound of wood is about 8,000 BTU.

If your moisture meter reading is 18%, that one pound of wood carries 1.18 pounds into the stove. The 0.18 pounds of water has to be evaporated which takes about 0.18 x 1100 BTU of energy = 200 BTU. You are left with 7,800 BTUs from your dry pound for heating the house. With a 70% total efficiency stove, .7 x 7,800 = 5460 BTUs into the heated space.

If your moisture meter reading is 25%, that one pound of wood carries 1.25 pounds into the stove. The 0.25 pounds of water has to be evaporated which takes about 0.25 x 1100 BTU of energy = 275 BTU. You are left with 7,725 BTUs from your dry pound for heating the house. With a 70% total efficiency stove, .7 x 7725 = 5400 BTUs into the heated space.

Seems to me the manner in which you operate the stove has more to do with the final output than a few percent difference in moisture content. Your plan to run it hot, load it frequently with small loads, and keep on top of chimney maintenance should work well.

I agree, if your numbers are accurate. All these little differences add up to more and more work and less output.

Dune · Oct 25, 2011

JimboM said:
BurnIt13 said:

Wow thanks for the replies everyone! First off....the moisture reading was 20% or so when taken at the end or outside of an existing split. If I split one down the middle, that is where I'm getting the 23-26%. And that is on the thicker pieces. I will split open a smaller one tonight and take a reading.

All of the wood is 16-18" long. I just stacked it next to my porch on pallets facing the south. I also put a tarp covering the top to keep the water off of it. I know things don't dry well in the winter but I'm hoping the full sun will help things out a bit. I stacked it in my back yard this spring in what I thought would have been full sun. It was sunny until the trees came in and the sun started shifting closer towards the horizon.....lesson learned.

Looks like I'll be hunting down some clean pallets to help this winter.

Since I'm very paranoid about creosote build up and the potentials of a chimney fire I was planning on cleaning the flue at least once a month with a soot eater and a brush.

I also was planning on running stove top temps above 500 and flue temps above 450-500 to try and minimize creosote buildup.

Oh boy....

Click to expand...

+1

I am sure some wood expert will hammer me on this, but this is the understanding I have developed reading these forums. I am a little hazy on the moisture meter output.

Assume the net heating value (accounting for water of combustion) of an oven dry pound of wood is about 8,000 BTU.

If your moisture meter reading is 18%, that one pound of wood carries 1.18 pounds into the stove. The 0.18 pounds of water has to be evaporated which takes about 0.18 x 1100 BTU of energy = 200 BTU. You are left with 7,800 BTUs from your dry pound for heating the house. With a 70% total efficiency stove, .7 x 7,800 = 5460 BTUs into the heated space.

If your moisture meter reading is 25%, that one pound of wood carries 1.25 pounds into the stove. The 0.25 pounds of water has to be evaporated which takes about 0.25 x 1100 BTU of energy = 275 BTU. You are left with 7,725 BTUs from your dry pound for heating the house. With a 70% total efficiency stove, .7 x 7725 = 5400 BTUs into the heated space.

Seems to me the manner in which you operate the stove has more to do with the final output than a few percent difference in moisture content. Your plan to run it hot, load it frequently with small loads, and keep on top of chimney maintenance should work well.

Recheck your math. You made the same mistake in both examples.

jimbom · Oct 25, 2011

Dune said:
Recheck your math. You made the same mistake in both examples.

I am sure you are correct, but I cannot spot it.

NWfuel · Oct 25, 2011

With your splits placed correctly to allow for them to burn off from one another a WHOLE Super Cedar will get it done! Email us for a free sample. info@supercedar with your ship to address and they are on the way.

Thomas

Dune · Oct 25, 2011

In the first case, you deducted .18 instead of 1.18. In the second case you did it again. You still have to deduct the BTUs required to vaporise the pound of water, not just the fraction.

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