Big stove, small fire = smoke... Clydesdale in full test run.

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mhrischuk

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We have some cool nights so I was eager to burn the Clydesdale to take the chill off and learn the stove. I know many have recommended for people to purchase the largest insert that fits and just build smaller fires if you don't want high heat.

I played around with fire size and start up temperature ramp up. What I have found so far... and help me out if I'm doing something wrong.. is you cannot start out with a small fire. You need to get the stove up to 500 deg before the afterburner kicks in. If I don't read 500 at the top, I pump smoke out the chimney. I think this is pretty standard with all stoves. You don't get secondary without that heat.

So what I have found with this particular stove is it has to run at 500F stovetop to maintain a proper burn. To me that pretty much precludes the small fire capability. In other words, the bigger the stove, the bigger the fire to get it hot. Now once it's hot you can back off but you still need to keep the temp stable to maintain afterburner. So you still have 500+ stove top, producing heat. A bigger stove will be difficult to burn low IMHO.

I did notice that this insert is very stable. It looks like it wood be difficult to overfire it. I had it blasting with the damper full on and it looks like it does a good job of holding low 500's. Manual says 600F is the upper limit at the top. I'm measuring temp with a gun pointed at the exposed cast iron just under the shroud.

My wood is very well seasoned oak and beech.

I had it packed last night and up to temp. The damper was just a smidgen open. It burned beautifully with small flames under and dancing off the surface of the splits and the underside of the baffle doing the light show. At one point I had only a center area with blue flames dancing off the wood and flattening out under the baffle. That was mesmerizing.

The heat coming out of the thing is much more than I expected. What a difference from the open fireplace. Hearthstone did an excellent job designing the insert heat shroud and the blower system. Heat blows off the top of the insert, out of the 1" or so gap, and it comes straight out, even slightly downward. The blower is strong enough to push the hot air 3 or 4 feet out into the room.

So, so far so good. Thanks everyone for all of your help so far. I got just about all of my knowledge from this site. It's great to read a bunch of peoples opinions and experiences instead of one persons "way".

Mike
 
Big stove here had a small fire last night and a small one this morning. When doing this I don't get crazy secondary action and I build the fire a bit differently and leave the air open a bit more. When that big box if full then the heat bouncing back and forth in there helps perpetuate the fire. A small fire in a cave doesn't have that luxury. But, with smaller splits of wood it's very doable (at least for non-cat stoves).

Some folks even set a few firebrick in the stove (I was going to try that last night but plum forgot) on the sides of the small fire before lighting to see if that would help the fire feel more compressed and radiate heat back into it more but it burned fine w/out so I didn't even think of it until now.

Another thing which often hampers stoves on their maiden voyages of the year is that they are clean. An inch and a 1/2 of ash in the bottom of the stove makes many perform much better.

It's a new stove to you, there will be learning curves. It's too early for you to draw any conclusions. Lots of things to play around with yet to figure what works best.

pen
 
So you are saying smaller splits and more air helps reduce smoke even without the secondary action?
 
IMHO smaller splits, more air, and I even burn, god forbid, Pine at this time of year. Leave the air open more than dead of winter burns as well. Yes it sends some more heat up the stack but that is the price I pay. Minimize the smoke, gets a quick hot fire, and takes the chill off. Well at least it works for me.

Shawn
 
mhrischuk said:
So you are saying smaller splits and more air helps reduce smoke even without the secondary action?

Yep, this time of year w/ small fires I use splits only (no small round) no bigger than about 2.5 to 3 inches across or smaller.

You can have a clean burn w/out secondary action. But to do so you need lots of surface area for that small amount of wood (small splits). They will burn faster / hotter and you'll probably even be able to engage the cat. The fire just doesn't last as long which is really what you want anyway.

pen
 
Good info. Thanks.

I love this insert so far. It's not cold yet but I can tell by the amount of heat this thing throws out that it's gonna do it's share on that end of the house. I stopped putting wood in. The house is already too toasty.
 
I think you just need some more time to play with it and get accustomed to how your stove likes to run. I had a 4 split fire last night with beautiful secondary action for about two hours and the stove top temp never got over 400. this was bout the third fire I have had this fall and I have went outside and checked the chimney on every single fire and have seen no smoke out of the chimney. From the time I light the firestarter it's usually about 20 minutes before I see the secondaries starting to lick out of the holes on my baffle I then usually leave the primary air open for a while and back it down in a few stages until the secondaries sustain themselves. If you have smoke pouring out of your chimney you are shutting down the primary air to soon or using to big of splits to get the fire started so it can't get hot enough quick enough. You will figure it out in no time you are just going through the initial learning curve everyone experiences.
 
Yea I think I was a little to anxious with the wood. I need to get some variety splits with more smaller ones for the shoulder seasons.
 
Naturally anxious with a new stove and there is a learning curve with any new stove. You will have it figured out before the real cold air hits. Weekends are a good time to learn.
 
I may have missed it, but have you posted a picture of that thing on here? I haven't seen that insert in enamel yet. I installed a clydesdale for one of my friends week before last, seems to burn real well!
 
Are you monitoring the stack temp, that is key to a clean burn.
 
With small shoulder season fires, you have to accept that you're not burning at your stoves best efficiency. I have lots of start up fires early fall and late spring and each one of those doses my chimney with smoke quite thoroughly, there is just no way around it. Even if I do build one large enough to light off the cat, the whole fire up till then is not burning very clean. I clean my chimney around the end of October, just before I start into more significant heating needs where the stove is now warm or hot most of the time.
 
Likewise here. We have looonnnng shoulder seasons so we burn softer wood in short hot fires. The loads are partial. I can get the top up to 4-500 with 3-4 medium splits. In Oct. we get the stove up to temp and then let it go out for the rest of the day, burning poplar or hemlock. As it gets cooler we do a fire in the morning and then the evening if necessary, burning doug fir. But it's not until it gets in the 30's that we burn 24/7. This year when it gets in the 20's we'll be switching from doug fir to locust.


Pen's splits are smaller than ours, but we are burning doug fir mostly which ignites pretty easily in spite of the larger splits. the volume of wood in his pictures is about the same as our shoulder season burns.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/79141/
 
oldspark said:
Are you monitoring the stack temp, that is key to a clean burn.

I would be willing to guess most people do not monitor flue temp with inserts since you need a special setup to do it. I am considering it but do not have one.
 
Mh...my manual states to just put the stove thermometer on the front of the doors (not the glass). It recommends a Runtland 701.
 
With a partial load this time of year, I'm mostly burning cedar and a little southern yellow pine, the procedure goes: air full open: start fire with some kindling, once it catches and is charred, fill the firebox about 1/2 full with splits; once that is charred and burning nicely back the air down in 2 steps until it is about 1/3 open and enjoy the show.
 
Hello, I'm a new wood burner and have a new Hampton H-300 stove. Can somebody explain what is meant by "secondaries" ? I've had a few fires recently and i'm probably burning with too little air because the glass has darkened. Wood is a couple year old so i'm thinking seasoning is ok. At times i have the dancing flames that were mentioned early in the post that curl up around the top. But, I read so much about secondaries i'm wondering what they are and how to recognize them ? Are they a good thing ?

Appeciate any info that the good folks on hearth.com are willing to provide.
 
main-er said:
Hello, I'm a new wood burner and have a new Hampton H-300 stove. Can somebody explain what is meant by "secondaries" ? I've had a few fires recently and i'm probably burning with too little air because the glass has darkened. Wood is a couple year old so i'm thinking seasoning is ok. At times i have the dancing flames that were mentioned early in the post that curl up around the top. But, I read so much about secondaries i'm wondering what they are and how to recognize them ? Are they a good thing ?

Appeciate any info that the good folks on hearth.com are willing to provide.

I am unfamiliar with this specific stove, so assuming it has burn tubes (most dual burn stoves do) they run usually across the top of the stove. When you have a secondary burn going it looks like a gas grill kind of flame coming from the holes in those burn tubes. This is actually the burning of the smoke that contains combustable gasses. This is the same crud that condenses and turns into creosote in your chimney/flue.

Now some stoves have a secondary combustion chamber, if that is the case you may not see any of the secondary flames.

Look at the top of the stove, if you see tubes with holes, that is where to look for the secondary burn. Now when you really get rocking and rolling, with a big fire, with good wood, which is suspect if you are getting blackined glass, then the secondaries will be blowing out of those holes big time and you will easily see them.

Shawn
 
thank you ! great explanation. I do have a ridged piece of steel (stainless?) across the top with several rows and lots of little hole. This week end we lost power so were running the stove hotter and could clearly see the flames across the top.
 
i burn small fires...big fires......short fires....long fires.....don't worry much about the smoke as long as it keeps going up the chimney. thats my main requirement for a fire....soke UP the chimney.

cass
 
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