Felling a tree
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JustWood
Minister of Fire
CTYank said:
70 degrees is great till the crotch of the tree your cutting strattles another standing tree 3/4 of the way to the ground at the same time the hinge breaks,,,,; jumps the stump and heads for your pretty face!
Solid, full across the stump hinges with 90 degree+ notches are the safest method. Period.
In certain instances on hillsides or ravines I've used a 130-140 degree notch to guide the tree downhill so that the hinge won't break so the skidder operator doesnt have to chase cable to the bottom. They usualy break when the hit the ground but by then the limbs are dug in and the tree won't slide.
bogydave
Minister of Fire
LEE: of the 3, you say the "open face 90°+ is the safest?
I typically don't get into big stuff, 18" birch is about the biggest, but am usually out there alone.
I've been using the humboldt, 45° +/- (1" above the notch for the back cut)
Would I be better (safer) to use the open face with the back cut right at the notch?
the 3 basic notches:
............conventional.........humboldt.............open face
I typically don't get into big stuff, 18" birch is about the biggest, but am usually out there alone.
I've been using the humboldt, 45° +/- (1" above the notch for the back cut)
Would I be better (safer) to use the open face with the back cut right at the notch?
the 3 basic notches:
............conventional.........humboldt.............open face
Attachments
JustWood
Minister of Fire
Before cutting always identify potential hazards in the tree and fall path.
When the tree you are felling will NOT come into contact with other trees any of those notches will work although the 90 is safest.
Where contact will be made , the 90 degree is always the safest.
Working alone I wood make your felling cuts at waist height. It's easier to look up while cutting and eliminates a large target area of your back and shoulders to falling debris.
When the tree you are felling will NOT come into contact with other trees any of those notches will work although the 90 is safest.
Where contact will be made , the 90 degree is always the safest.
Working alone I wood make your felling cuts at waist height. It's easier to look up while cutting and eliminates a large target area of your back and shoulders to falling debris.
ansehnlich1
Retired Hearth.com Member
I wanted to let you all know I stand by my advice to the OP. I don't want to ruffle feathers but this is a new member to this website, joined up 10 days ago, and wants to know how to fell a mature oak tree. With all due respect, I personally have no idea who the OP is, what his skill level is, or anything else about him. I stand by my response in that I think it is more than appropriate advice given the dangers involved. The OP has posted no information indicating he has any felling experience whatsoever. I simply think it negligent on my part to do anything other than advise him to seek professional assistance in the felling of a large oak tree.
I have felled about two trees in my life, and I have split plenty of wood and have handled a chainsaw numerous times. I have been told two different ways of how to fell a tree by the men who were helping me. I don't cut trees alone because you need someone to call the meat wagon if something goes wrong. Anyhow, as I said in an earlier post, I have read several books on the subject, particularly "To Fell a Tree" by Jeff Jepson, and he is an advocate of the 90* method over the traditional, 45*, as he put it.
I am just looking for best practice or consensus if one can be found, but I will bring my own trees down, other than the ones in power lines or near the house. That takes professional skill I don't have and may never have, but I like challenges and using my hands, and that is why I learned to mechanic on old machinery; that is why I have no problem cutting and splitting wood because it would be easier to call a local fellow for x amount of firewood and write him a check. Sometimes you have soil you pants and jump on in.
I am just looking for best practice or consensus if one can be found, but I will bring my own trees down, other than the ones in power lines or near the house. That takes professional skill I don't have and may never have, but I like challenges and using my hands, and that is why I learned to mechanic on old machinery; that is why I have no problem cutting and splitting wood because it would be easier to call a local fellow for x amount of firewood and write him a check. Sometimes you have soil you pants and jump on in.
smokinj
Minister of Fire
G6 at Snook said:
Speaking of soiling your pants, Tree felling a good way to fill them up fast! :lol:
Danno77
Minister of Fire
Bogy posted about three or four posts up the three common cutting methods. Use them on a straight looking tree of normal stature (don't cut a 5" tree nor a 50" tree for your first few).
My advice, should you chose to cut Without a pro teaching you (we talk about classes offered all the time), is to have a buddy along. This is good for several reasons.
1. You can discuss the lean of the tree, or the nature of the weight, and discuss what way you both think it might come down.
2. You can spend your time looking at the saw and the cut you are making, and your buddy can be nearby to pay attention to what the tree is doing.
3. If the fell goes wrong, you have emergency help.
Edit: I wanted to add that I read your post where you state that you don't cut alone, so it's not that I wasn't listening to what you say, but I was just emphasizing some points for any readers of the thread.
P.S. I read the debates on the angled down cuts and came to the conclusion that parallel to the ground is better for me, because it leaves you with the ability to throw some wedges in there without shearing the stump or the tree.
My advice, should you chose to cut Without a pro teaching you (we talk about classes offered all the time), is to have a buddy along. This is good for several reasons.
1. You can discuss the lean of the tree, or the nature of the weight, and discuss what way you both think it might come down.
2. You can spend your time looking at the saw and the cut you are making, and your buddy can be nearby to pay attention to what the tree is doing.
3. If the fell goes wrong, you have emergency help.
Edit: I wanted to add that I read your post where you state that you don't cut alone, so it's not that I wasn't listening to what you say, but I was just emphasizing some points for any readers of the thread.
P.S. I read the debates on the angled down cuts and came to the conclusion that parallel to the ground is better for me, because it leaves you with the ability to throw some wedges in there without shearing the stump or the tree.
bogydave
Minister of Fire
uncontrolabLEE said:
Thanks
1 Permit rule - stumps no taller than 12"; but I can cut them off after the tree is down.
SiL cut one last week, just as it hit another trees limbs it closed the notch & hung up on a limb. His notch was not even 45°. (close to 30°)
I carry a grappling hook which I threw into the top &hooked; a branch & was able to pull it down.
Now that we've discussed the notch degree a little, I'll make sure to make the notches bigger.
& when/if SIL helps again, explain it to him also.
Like said, not big trees but still can be dangerous if done wrong. "Stupid hurts"
Thanks for the experienced tips"
I'll put them in practice on my next tree cutting.
I'm sure others will also.
This is a good thread from some time ago on this same subject. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/59685/
ecocavalier02
Minister of Fire
i do agree that it does greatly help to have someone who is there to help you learn. i've gotten into some pretty good pickles when i was learning. made from some nerve racking soiling pants experience. lol.
Kenster
Minister of Fire
I had one of those experience lessons yesterday. I mis-cut a large post oak tree. I came in low on the flat back cut. I re-cut at the old 45* angle and ultimately had a giant post oak with with two open faces and a minor hinge. I finally screwed up my courage, whittled some on the tree with my saw, and it finally went over after I sprinted out. My blood was pumping that day. And I won't make that mistake again. Should get about 1 1/2 to 2 cords of wood out of it.
ecocavalier02
Minister of Fire
when u first started cuttig that seemed to be my problem. I would make my back cut and Struggle to keep the saw level and would drift lower than my notch. That's a thing of the past. But was scary a few times lol.G6 at Snook said:
Wood Duck
Minister of Fire
Hey G6,
My advice is to find some small trees to fell and practice on those. Start with trees that have a small but distinct lean in one direction and fell them in the direction of the lean. After a few of those work your way up. One significant difference between large trees and small young trees (aside from the increased chance they will crush you) is that large, old trees may not be solid the whole way through and that means they can do unexpected things when you cut part way through. To me the unknown rot or hollow in the middle is the toughest part of felling a tree.
My advice is to find some small trees to fell and practice on those. Start with trees that have a small but distinct lean in one direction and fell them in the direction of the lean. After a few of those work your way up. One significant difference between large trees and small young trees (aside from the increased chance they will crush you) is that large, old trees may not be solid the whole way through and that means they can do unexpected things when you cut part way through. To me the unknown rot or hollow in the middle is the toughest part of felling a tree.
I suppose this can go in the "The Gear" as much as the continuation of this thread, but anyhow we finished splitting that large post oak that I messed up cutting on Monday. It had about 2 1/2 to 3 cords of wood in it. It also had part of an old barbed wire fence in it as well. I hit a couple of times while slicing it up, but it did not muck up the saw. Also, the tree had just died, but it was still plenty green as the splitter went into the wood the wedge was often wet. Also, which is odd for old post oaks (the size makes me think it was about 125 years old) it was solid stem to stern--no rot. Finally, several months ago I queried the forum about Iron an Oak Splitters and the consensus is that they are first rate. They are. I worked my Robin powered 26ton unit hard today. Both vertical and horizontal--each has it purposes, but I prefer horizontal splitting, but it did get stoned a couple of times. That old solid tree had some of the most knotty angles in it and on about three occasions I had to tell the young men helping me to let it be and start elsewhere. On a tree that big, I probably would have needed 34 ton in those instances.
Lastly, I had two local hs seniors helping me. They are some tough hombres and it is a pleasure to work with young men who will work hard, be pleasant as they work, do as they are told but free lance enough to work around a problem. There may be some rot in the youth of our country, but there are still young men who are willing to work, smart, and virtuous.
Lastly, I had two local hs seniors helping me. They are some tough hombres and it is a pleasure to work with young men who will work hard, be pleasant as they work, do as they are told but free lance enough to work around a problem. There may be some rot in the youth of our country, but there are still young men who are willing to work, smart, and virtuous.
Wood Duck
Minister of Fire
A few posts back Bogeydave asked if the back cut for a 90 degree face cut should be horizontal and level with the notch on the face cut. Did anybody answer? I'd like to know. I always thought the back cut should be horizontal and a couple of inches above the notch of the face cut.
inevitabLEE said:
ThankyouLEE for that explanation. I have always used 90 cuts for the notch. Wanted to try a 45 notch but never did it. I don't get to cut very many tall thin trees, their always broad at the top with large limbs so I'll keep cutting 90's.
onetracker
Minister of Fire
smokinjay said:
true dat sj....
always a rush and a moment or two of uncertainty when dropping a big'un.
and such a feeling of accomplishment when it lands precisely where you aimed it.
ummm...alright i'll fess up...once (maybe 20 years ago) i dropped a medium sized locust on an abandoned outbuilding - unintentionally i might add. i am so grateful for the experience in that no one got hurt, and that it taught me volumes about the physics and unpredictability of dropping 2 tons of wood from 80 feet. it was rotten inside and i mis-read the center of gravity. the error was about 45 degrees from where i thought i was aiming it. pretty bad.
stay safe
OT
Having a cell phone in your pocket, if you have service, can also be a lifesaver. I cut alone on my property, but I call back to the house after a few (maybe 10-15) minutes...just as a safety.
My biggest concern is those "barber chair" events, when the tree basically breaks apart and drops downward, without actually tipping over first. In other words, I assume that happens pretty damned fast, and since it is going downwards from the bottom, right around where the feller is standing, it can be deadly.
Is there any rule of thumb for when these are more likely? My understanding is that with a leaning tree, they are more apt to do this, as when you cut the notch you have weakened the tree in the "direction" of the lean, assuming you are felling in the direction the tree wants to fall.
Are there any "signs" of something like this?
I also think the point about knowing when the tree is going to come in contact with other stuff, which is ALWAYS in my case cutting in the woods. When this something else is significant, this greatly increases chances in funny things happening with the butt and the stump...like it bouncing backward funny, or slidding backwards off the stump, etc. This is why you don't run 180 degrees away from where it is going to drop....apparenlty many have been killed by the tree sliding back off the stump, hit in the back as they walked away, but found dead that way. Another thing I never do....turn my back to the tree once that notch is cut.
My biggest concern is those "barber chair" events, when the tree basically breaks apart and drops downward, without actually tipping over first. In other words, I assume that happens pretty damned fast, and since it is going downwards from the bottom, right around where the feller is standing, it can be deadly.
Is there any rule of thumb for when these are more likely? My understanding is that with a leaning tree, they are more apt to do this, as when you cut the notch you have weakened the tree in the "direction" of the lean, assuming you are felling in the direction the tree wants to fall.
Are there any "signs" of something like this?
I also think the point about knowing when the tree is going to come in contact with other stuff, which is ALWAYS in my case cutting in the woods. When this something else is significant, this greatly increases chances in funny things happening with the butt and the stump...like it bouncing backward funny, or slidding backwards off the stump, etc. This is why you don't run 180 degrees away from where it is going to drop....apparenlty many have been killed by the tree sliding back off the stump, hit in the back as they walked away, but found dead that way. Another thing I never do....turn my back to the tree once that notch is cut.
Thistle
Minister of Fire
bpirger said:
Same here. I do 90+% of my wood cutting on parents property & 99% of that is done alone. Cell phone is always in front pants pocket no matter the time of year & I'm rarely more than 10 minutes walking distance from their house.Also I wear some combination of hi-vis clothing in blaze orange and/or neon yellow such as forestry helmet,vest,hoodie or regular sweatshirt,t-shirt etc depending on temps & weather conditions.I want others to SEE me,especially when working near east property line next to that sparsely traveled gravel road.
I always tell them 'If you dont see a moving blurry spot of orange/yellow out in the woods somewhere,that means I'm either sitting down or lying down'
Flamestead
Feeling the Heat
Many of the logging companies in our area require new hires to take a felling course, regardless of their past experiences, and to do onging safety training. I cut trees for years without formal training and was confident I could get it on the ground, but wasn't quite so confident I could do it safely about 30% of the time. Since I've had some training, my comfort level has greatly increased. Before seeing this thread this morning I was just talking with my wife about how every year at this time I pull out and review some of the training material before starting my annual month or two of felling trees.
Saws and trees bite and whack hard and fast. As a teenager, working for a farmer, not running the saw, I ended up in the hospital with a pelvis broken in four places. The tree didn't go where intended, hung, and in the process of getting it down the butt came off the stump and got me. Proper felling technique may have avoided the initial hang, proper hinge may have kept the butt attached, and so on.
Training from a professional trainer is highly recommended.
Regarding height of the cut, I often cut one stick of stovewood length up from the ground for my convienence, and later cut the stump and toss it on the pile. However, there are many times the flare can be helpful in providing a better hinge, so I cut lower. If I were after a saw log, I would go as low as I could.
Saws and trees bite and whack hard and fast. As a teenager, working for a farmer, not running the saw, I ended up in the hospital with a pelvis broken in four places. The tree didn't go where intended, hung, and in the process of getting it down the butt came off the stump and got me. Proper felling technique may have avoided the initial hang, proper hinge may have kept the butt attached, and so on.
Training from a professional trainer is highly recommended.
Regarding height of the cut, I often cut one stick of stovewood length up from the ground for my convienence, and later cut the stump and toss it on the pile. However, there are many times the flare can be helpful in providing a better hinge, so I cut lower. If I were after a saw log, I would go as low as I could.
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