Newbie thinking of joining the wood burning crowd, looking for advice

My thoughts: put the stove where you are going to be. If you guys spend at least 1/2 of your time in the basement, put the stove there and get a honkin' unit.

If not, I would consider adding one later (and you can do a cheaper unit if you decide you need to and not get a honkin' one since the upstairs will be taken care of).

So if it's in the basement you'll be running down there to check on the fire, or you'll forget about it. Instead of having it there in the room where you can enjoy all of the heat and see it out of the corner of your eye. That's just me. If you have small kids do you plan on leaving them in a room with a stove unattended? I wouldn't. But that's just me.

You do have an advantage with having the floor vents which I'm sure will help distribute heat from the basement if you decide to do that.

You planning on running this 24/7? That can also help you decide which material to use for the unit, too. 24x7 burning works really well the soapstone, IMHO, to keep a nice, even heat. If you plan to occasionally use "flash fires" metal is really good for that since it heats up pretty quickly compared to soapstone.

Both materials work very well and I have experience with both.

I also think your living room is very nice and I'd hate to lose functionality of that nice looking hearth. I'd make the most of it with a great looking insert as I'm assuming you'd want to spend the majority of the family time in the upstairs living room since it's a nice room and where the TV is. I'd put a smaller metal stove in the basement for supplemental heat and occasional use for the weekends (I'm assuming that is the use for the basement). That's just me!

If you know that you will be getting equal use of the basement during the week I'd go with a honkin' unit and get ready to feed it some wood.

i have a similar situation, trying to heat basement and main floor. was going to buy the big stove, but with tight money i went with a medium stove. timberwolf 2200 1.9 firebox. our house is a 2 level rambler. stove is in family room downstairs. i have installed the vents in between floors family room to upstairs living room. this stove does a great job. paid $678.00 with tax and another $65 for single wall pipe to tie into existing brick chimney clay liner. next year will be upgrade with a chimney liner. we like the stove in the basement i have five kids and they love to be downstairs away from us and chores. they stay way warm with shorts and t shirts, they are always in shorts and tshirts, and we stay just right upstairs. hope this helps.

Jags said:

burnt03 said:

Does the material affect the operation or is it strictly looks?

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Yes, plate steel is the black hole of stoves. It will suck the life out of you. It works perfectly well for snow plows, but cast is the way to go for stoves. :lol:

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But seriously, they all make heat. Plate steel heats up quicker and cools down quicker. Cast iron and soapstone are slower to heat up and hold the heat longer. Plate steel stoves have firebricks in them which mitigates the quick heat up and cool down to some extent. Looks and price are also a factor. Steel stoves tend to be less expensive than cast iron or soapstone. Many (but not all) think cast iron and soapstone are more attractive.

burnt03 said:

Sort of an update, but not much really going on, just some ideas/plans.

- convinced the wife that a woodstove is the way to go BUT she says she doesn't want a used stove. Plus I'm having trouble finding a bigger stove for sale used around here. So, the plan is to wait until next year's tax refund and I'm leaning towards the TimberRidge 50TNC (same stove as the Englander 30NC). Everyone seems to have good things to say about it and it's relatively cheap (around $1000 new). Planning on installing the big stove downstairs.
- have a 6x10 ID clay lined chimney. I know that the stove performs best with a 6" chimney liner but not sure if we'll be able to afford it, so going to try it with original chimney first. Plus, the 6" chimney wouldn't fit anyways, have an email into Englander to see if a 5.5" would work if needed.
- build a new hearth. From what I've read, steel studs on the flat, covered in concrete board and tiled should do the trick for R-value.
- keep reading threads on here, watch my electrical meter spin faster than I can track when the furnace kicks on and keep dreaming.

So not up to much right now. Going to fall some standing dead trees at work this winter, split and store at home to start the drying process. Which brings me to another question.... primarily have Douglas Fir and Ponderosa Pine around here (both being killed off prematurely by Tussock Moth and Pine Beetle). I've been told that the fir is the way to go but the pine is more prevalent. Should I completely steer clear of the pine or?

Thanks for all the advice!! This site is great

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Just a heads up.... the 6x10 chimney is a 60 sq inche area, a 6 inch round liner is only a 28 sq. inche area. You would have double the area without a liner, and you may not get the burn you are looking for, nor a clean burn, I would seriously consider getting that lined.

Another good reason to have the heavy lifting stove in the basement is you are going to be shoveling at least 3 or 4 cord into it every year. Even if you are meticulous about it, moving that much material through the living room is going to make a mess.

Look closely at the hearth requirements for the Englander. If I'm not mistaken, the R value needed is 1.5. The manual is on their website.
Micore is 1.03/1/2" and Durock is .26 (new type may be different).
Micore is the material of choice under some Durock or several layers of Durock.

burnt03 said:

shawneyboy said:

Just a heads up.... the 6x10 chimney is a 60 sq inche area, a 6 inch round liner is only a 28 sq. inche area. You would have TRIPLE the area without a liner, and you may not get the burn you are looking for, nor a clean burn, I would seriously consider getting that lined.

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Wouldn't it only be about 2.1 X the area?

The installation manual for the stove is a little ambiguous. One page stresses the importance of chimney size and says "If your chimney is too
large, the heater will have a difficult time raising the temperature of the flue enough to provide adequate draft, which can cause a "smoke back," poor burn, or both." which is in line with what you've said (and from what I've read, most people have discovered with the EPA stoves).

But, the next page is more specific about the flue size and states "The area of the chimney liner must also be equal to or greater than the area of the flue collar on the stove. If the area of the flue is greater than the collar, it should never be more than two and 1/2 (2.5) times greater." So if that's to be believed, I'd be within limits.

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Meant double... sorry... Yes by those specs per the manufacturer, you are within the limits, but..... it still will effect the burn and IMHO you should keep a VERY close eye on the chimney for creo formation. It may very well operate in an ok manner but.... I have seenheard of here on Hearth.com, multiple persons who thought they were doing well untill they lined the chimney and then and only then did they relize what they were missing.

Bite the bullet and put the liner in and get the stove you want now, the money you save this year will help cover the cost, sorry if I missed it but do you have acess to dry wood? Love the clearstory windows.

burnt03 said:

From reading all the posts on here, I'm definitely planning on going with a liner. I'm just thinking that I might have to go one year without and wait for the next year's tax return before putting it in. I believe I'd need an oblong liner to fit in this chimney since a 6" won't fit down....

I'm planning on taking down some dead standing Douglas Fir this winter, splitting and stacking to get ready for next year (fall 2012). On that note, there's lots of green fir available. Is there any problem with falling it live, splitting it then letting it season or do you guys normally only target dead stands?

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Sounds like you have a plan, many of us cut green wood and dry it in single rows so it get wind and sun.

hi gang, just saw this and glanced through it. to the OP;

the 6X10 lined flue will work, though its not "optimal" as long as it pulls well it should be ok at least if you are thiking on getting through a season then adding liner next summer. a liner would be preferred as its putting you at optimal but FWIW ive seen that stove in an 8X8 which is slightly larger cross section burn well. BTW i believe BB one of the mod's has a 5.5 hooked to a 30 working by all accounts just fine , he may comment on that if he sees your thread

thing that jumped at me was the flush hearth in the basement where i assume you would look to put the unit. it may be a trick of the camera but it doesnt look big enough to me to meet clearances for the 30. also we need to make sure its up to the required 1.5"R" needed to mount the stove. keep in mind that depending on what was there before may not have needed such a requirement and also that since it was already there when you bought we do not know if its even to code under there.

as for your choice of stoves of course im biased but pleased none the less, thanks for considering my product and feel free to contact me with any specific questions you may have my "e-door" is always open

burnt03 said:

Hi Mike, thanks for the reply. I was planning on removing the existing hearth and cutting in a new one similar to the one pictured in the thread below:

He used the following but ended up going with 3 layers of 1/2" durock:

"The manual says that the floor protection needs to have an R value of 1.5. Acording to the hearth wiki, I can achieve that as follows (using the R value for 1†of dead air since I don’t know the R value for 3.5â€):

Dead air @ R .97
Two layers 1/2†durock board @ R .26 each
One layer of 1/4†ceramic tile @ R .01
Total R value comes to R 1.5"

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/11825/P22

Then keeping the existing wall rockwork and keeping the stove far enough into the room to meet clearances. Does all this sound like it'd work?

One other question for you, specific to the stove. Would you recommend the OAK? We're in a climate similar to Spokane, WA and the home is about 30 years old (so not sealed up tight).

Thanks again!

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sounds right for the hearth without actually looking it up. r values are simply added up by the inch of thickness so r.97X3.5 should give you the 3.5 inch vented air total, i'd have to look it up at the shop to be certain but im thinking thats teh case, i'll post tomorrow from the office if im wrong but i think im rightseveral folks have gone that route as far as i know seeing that thread. an actual vented air space actually provides more R factor than many common materials you might think would be higher , a brick for instance conducts more heat the the same thickness of vented air space as the ventilation disperses the heat a sealed air space however does not work that way so the hearth wuld need to be ventilated to carry out that function as stated in the thread. ive actually thought of mimicing that setup in my house when i remodel the stove room.

as for the oak, most older houses are ok without it, but age and design both play a factor. i think you MIGHT be able to determine this with a simple test its not always completely reliable but might give you an idea.

open your chimney if its covered and wait about a half hour (preferrably on a calm day. this allows a sealed flue to develop standby draft if it had been covered. hold a candle flame at the opening of the thimble. you should see the flame getting pullled into the flue by the draft. take care to note how hard it gets pulled through
next open a window or door to the outside in the same room if possible or same level of the house if not, wait another several minutes then use the candle to see if the strength of the standby draw increases noticably (wont be a huge thing but the flame would be pulled in a bit harder. if theres a big change , add the oak , if its not noticable the house is "loose enough" IMHO to forgoe the oak and use house air

burnt03 said:

So the thread linked above indicates a "dead air" space as opposed to a ventilated space. That's no good?

I appreciate all the help and answers, thanks everyone who's added their 2 cents to this post.

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it may be , i'll have to look, i have a chart of the r factors for varoious materials at my desk at the office, unfortunately i do not possess an "at home" copy. i'll look at it when i get in the office in the morning and post what i have for ya.

ok, here's what i see ;

what i show listed is actually a ventilated air space of which a 1" thickness is valued at 1.43R with a K value of .70 i do not have the listed R factor for "dead" airspace. another thing to look at maybe with the dead air space , rockwool or fioberglass batts are rated at 3.33R for 1 inch thickness as well so if you filled that 1 inch airspace with rockwool i assume you would be able to mount virtually any woodstove imaginable on your hearth

Here is my opinion. Get a Blaze King, they are very prevalent in the NW and they work good. Most of that dead standing stuff does not need to be "seasoned" if it is in fact dead. I have a similar home layout and I think it would be great to have those floor vents like you do, it should work good. PS dont listen to that BS about not burning pine. People out here have been burning pine for generatins with no problem at all.

I have a similar size single story house. We heat the entire home with wood using our Regency. It seems extremely efficient and our total electric house with a stay at home mom and child using electricity constantly has winter time electric bills around $75-$100/ month.