Whitfield Profile 30 insert - excessive ash build up

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Tim_M

Tim_M

Burning Hunk
Mar 28, 2010
248
Halifax, NS
I've just installed a used Whitfield Profile 30 insert, and burned my first 2 bags of pellets. Upon first lighting the stove it seems to work well, but I've noticed what seems to be a lot of ash in the ash pans on either side of the burn pot in the mornings, along with quite a lot of unburned pellets that have fallen to the sides (maybe a hand full). The burn pot and the area immediately below it also seem to accumulate a fair bit of ash after burning overnight. By morning half-burned pellets have built up in the pot, and the flame seems to burn high and lazy. The glass also seems to soot up fairly quickly.

The stove is vented into a 25' masonry chimney lined with a 6" ss liner. It has a 3" outlet into a 3" to 4" T-adapter, with about 4' of 4" flex before connecting to the 6" liner. The first night I had the draft set about 2/3 open, and after that I opened it all the way but didn't see much change in the ash build up. I opened the ash traps today to see how much ash had accumulated in there and found very little, so most of it had fallen into the pans.

The stove was cleaned thoroughly before the installation, brushing and then blowing the ash traps with compressed air. I've read in other posts that ash build up can be caused by a leaking door gasket, so I tested mine with a strip of paper. It seems fairly tight but I'm wondering if it could be leaking somewhere, maybe at the corners where the door angles in on either side. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what could be causing this?
 
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I would have a technician put a magnahelic guage on it and see what kind of pressure your have inside the combustion chamber. Could be a leak, could be a dying combustion fan, it is a used stove, how old?
 
The stove is used. The seller told me it's only 3 or 4 years old but I'm a bit skeptical based on some of the other things he told me. I was thinking it could be the combustion fan too. Anyone know what a new one would cost? I also had another thought. Could the problem be caused by air was leaking around one or both of the covers over the ash clean-out ports, on either side of the burn pot?
 
Tim_M said:
I've just installed a used Whitfield Profile 30 insert, and burned my first 2 bags of pellets. Upon first lighting the stove it seems to work well, but I've noticed what seems to be a lot of ash in the ash pans on either side of the burn pot in the mornings, along with quite a lot of unburned pellets that have fallen to the sides (maybe a hand full). The burn pot and the area immediately below it also seem to accumulate a fair bit of ash after burning overnight. By morning half-burned pellets have built up in the pot, and the flame seems to burn high and lazy. The glass also seems to soot up fairly quickly.

The stove is vented into a 25' masonry chimney lined with a 6" ss liner. It has a 3" outlet into a 3" to 4" T-adapter, with about 4' of 4" flex before connecting to the 6" liner. The first night I had the draft set about 2/3 open, and after that I opened it all the way but didn't see much change in the ash build up. I opened the ash traps today to see how much ash had accumulated in there and found very little, so most of it had fallen into the pans.

The stove was cleaned thoroughly before the installation, brushing and then blowing the ash traps with compressed air. I've read in other posts that ash build up can be caused by a leaking door gasket, so I tested mine with a strip of paper. It seems fairly tight but I'm wondering if it could be leaking somewhere, maybe at the corners where the door angles in on either side. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what could be causing this?
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like you may have TOO MUCH draft. Are the pellets pop corning around out of the burn pot. Twenty five feet of 6" liner is a lot of sheer for a stove that really requires more residency time. This is why 3 and 4 inch diameter pipe is recommended.
 
Tim_M said:
The stove is used. The seller told me it's only 3 or 4 years old but I'm a bit skeptical based on some of the other things he told me. I was thinking it could be the combustion fan too. Anyone know what a new one would cost? I also had another thought. Could the problem be caused by air was leaking around one or both of the covers over the ash clean-out ports, on either side of the burn pot?
Click to expand...

In answer to your question about the ash clean out ports, it will cause a bit of a sideways draw which can cause problems in getting the ash out of the burn pot. Did you remove and clean your combustion fan, you'll need a gasket before attempting that job, it is possible that there is a pile of build up between the impeller and the motor mounting plate that got missed.

How have you set your draft?
 
Tim_M said:
The stove is used. The seller told me it's only 3 or 4 years old but I'm a bit skeptical based on some of the other things he told me. I was thinking it could be the combustion fan too. Anyone know what a new one would cost? I also had another thought. Could the problem be caused by air was leaking around one or both of the covers over the ash clean-out ports, on either side of the burn pot?
Click to expand...

A quick look around reveals a few sources...

http://a1stoves.com/whitfield-exhaust-blower-motor-7-p-196.html

http://www.stove-parts-unlimited.com/Whitfield_Combustion_Motor_p/pp7601.htm

Or you could give these guys a try...

http://www.heiligkuh.com/agora/agora.cgi?product=Parts&xm=on

You may also want to look at the gasket between the combustion blower and housing and make sure it isn't leaking.

By the way, if you don't own a Carbon Monoxide detector go out and get one, it could save your life.
 
A high lazy fire is the sign of a plugged up stove.

Very likely the internal ash baffles are full of ash, that is causing a poor airflow.

Have you removed the fire back (brick peices) to gain access to the clean outs.

I bought a used Whitfield back a couple seasons and it would not sustain a fire at all.

Totally plugged up with ashes.

ash build up is a normal thing, but partially burned pellets are not.

Some times pellets can bounce out of the pot and land on the area around the pot and lay there and smolder.

Check out the ash baffles and see whats up there.

Snowy
 
Thanks for all of the comments and suggestions. I don't think I have too much draft, as the pellets aren't pop corning or dancing around that much, even with the damper wide open. When I first light the stove it seems to burn well. It's only after it's been burning for several hours and a fair bit of ash has built up in the burn pot and ash pans that the flame get high and lazy..

The stove was cleaned thoroughly prior to installation, and I removed the ash-trap covers after the second night of burning and there was little or no ash in the traps, despite a fair amount in the pans. Upon closer inspection of those covers, for some reason they were bent in places on the corners, leaving small gaps where air could be leaking. I have tried to straighten them, and I'm thinking of placing small strips of gasket where there still seems to be gaps. I'll report back as to whether this results in improved performance. Right now we're having an early autumn heat wave here in NS, so I haven't had the stove going for a few nights.
 
Tim_M said:
Thanks for all of the comments and suggestions. I don't think I have too much draft, as the pellets aren't pop corning or dancing around that much, even with the damper wide open. When I first light the stove it seems to burn well. It's only after it's been burning for several hours and a fair bit of ash has built up in the burn pot and ash pans that the flame get high and lazy..

The stove was cleaned thoroughly prior to installation, and I removed the ash-trap covers after the second night of burning and there was little or no ash in the traps, despite a fair amount in the pans. Upon closer inspection of those covers, for some reason they were bent in places on the corners, leaving small gaps where air could be leaking. I have tried to straighten them, and I'm thinking of placing small strips of gasket where there still seems to be gaps. I'll report back as to whether this results in improved performance. Right now we're having an early autumn heat wave here in NS, so I haven't had the stove going for a few nights.
Click to expand...

On several Whitfields there are two sets of traps on each side.
 
I have the same stove and the same problem. I've cleaned and cleaned, tried 3 different brands of pellets but nothing seems to help! The best solution I've found is to open the door a couple times a day and scrape the ashes/etc. out of the burnpot. If you let it burn "lazy" for too long it'll soot up the photoeye and then you'll have to shut it down and clean that too. I know there are a few around here that rave about Whitfields but I'll never buy another one!
 
snsb said:
I have the same stove and the same problem. I've cleaned and cleaned, tried 3 different brands of pellets but nothing seems to help! The best solution I've found is to open the door a couple times a day and scrape the ashes/etc. out of the burnpot. If you let it burn "lazy" for too long it'll soot up the photoeye and then you'll have to shut it down and clean that too. I know there are a few around here that rave about Whitfields but I'll never buy another one!
Click to expand...

Interesting. It makes me wonder if there is some inherent flaw with this particular model. But I doubt it since Whitfield has been building good stoves for a long time.
 
Tim_M said:
snsb said:
I have the same stove and the same problem. I've cleaned and cleaned, tried 3 different brands of pellets but nothing seems to help! The best solution I've found is to open the door a couple times a day and scrape the ashes/etc. out of the burnpot. If you let it burn "lazy" for too long it'll soot up the photoeye and then you'll have to shut it down and clean that too. I know there are a few around here that rave about Whitfields but I'll never buy another one!
Click to expand...

Interesting. It makes me wonder if there is some inherent flaw with this particular model. But I doubt it since Whitfield has been building good stoves for a long time.
Click to expand...

Whitfield stoves are made by Lennox these days.
 
OK, I thought I would update this post after making a few repairs / modifications to the stove and burning it for a few weeks:

I minimized the gaps that existed around the ash trap covers, by straightening them where they were slightly bent, and using small strips of gasket in some areas.

I used high-heat silicon to caulk the gaps between the steel seams around the perimeter of the firebox, and also around the air intake tube immediately under the Ultragrate burn pot. These gaps were quite wide, up to 1/8" or more, and it seemed to me that a lot of air was being being drawn through them. The gaps around the outside of the firebox wouldn't necessarily reduce the airflow thru the burn pot, but they would result in sideways draw. And the gap around the air intake tube would reduce the airflow thru the burn pot, since some of the air coming in would be immediately drawn thru this gap before being pulled up thru the Ultragrate. It seems strange that the stove would have been designed this way, with the seams just spot-welded rather than sealed completely.

I'm happy to report that after making these changes the stove seems to work much better. The ash build up under the Ultragrate is significantly less. I still clear the ash from that area twice a day, and occasionally give the grate a quick scrape if it looks like clinkers are forming, but I can live with these small chores. It still beats burning cord wood by a mile!

I do have one other question. I've read different posts about calibrating the auger trim and combustion air, and I have the service manual for my stove that describes the procedure. But the one thing it doesn't say is if you are supposed to make the calibration adjustments while the stove is running, or when it is off? It's probably a dumb question but with the replacement cost of those control boards I don't want to do anything that could mess it up. Thanks.
 
Tim_M said:
OK, I thought I would update this post after making a few repairs / modifications to the stove and burning it for a few weeks:

I minimized the gaps that existed around the ash trap covers, by straightening them where they were slightly bent, and using small strips of gasket in some areas.

I used high-heat silicon to caulk the gaps between the steel seams around the perimeter of the firebox, and also around the air intake tube immediately under the Ultragrate burn pot. These gaps were quite wide, up to 1/8" or more, and it seemed to me that a lot of air was being being drawn through them. The gaps around the outside of the firebox wouldn't necessarily reduce the airflow thru the burn pot, but they would result in sideways draw. And the gap around the air intake tube would reduce the airflow thru the burn pot, since some of the air coming in would be immediately drawn thru this gap before being pulled up thru the Ultragrate. It seems strange that the stove would have been designed this way, with the seams just spot-welded rather than sealed completely.

I'm happy to report that after making these changes the stove seems to work much better. The ash build up under the Ultragrate is significantly less. I still clear the ash from that area twice a day, and occasionally give the grate a quick scrape if it looks like clinkers are forming, but I can live with these small chores. It still beats burning cord wood by a mile!

I do have one other question. I've read different posts about calibrating the auger trim and combustion air, and I have the service manual for my stove that describes the procedure. But the one thing it doesn't say is if you are supposed to make the calibration adjustments while the stove is running, or when it is off? It's probably a dumb question but with the replacement cost of those control boards I don't want to do anything that could mess it up. Thanks.
Click to expand...

The trims are set with the stove running, the service manual should speak to that, and all trim adjustments are done with a little change and waiting for the stove to stabilize.

Did you check the combustion blower for build up between the impeller and the mount, the blades need to be sharp not rounded over with ash.

Look for air leaks around your ash pan setup as well. On some stoves this will make no difference on others it is a burn pot air bypass and can really make a mess of the burn.
 
Thanks Smokey. I thought that must be the case but wanted to be sure, and the manual doesn't seem to specify that point.

I know the installer had the combustion motor apart and cleaned it with compressed air when doing the install, so I'm assuming it's fairly clean. Being an insert it's not so easy to get at.

I agree about air leaks around the ash pans causing problems. That's where the ash trap covers are located and I'm pretty sure it was the air leaking around them that was a big cause of the ash build-up.
 
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