Advice please: Have really old pellet stove, tore apart at moment, should I just get a new one?

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damperswideopen

New Member
Feb 9, 2011
7
Lower Thumb Area, MI
My current pellet stove is a 1993 Paragon model 5440 by United States Stove Company which I inherited it from my parents when I moved into my childhood home last year. My husband and I finally started using it last January or February. Found out it was really dirt (really, really diiiiiiiiirty). So, I tore it apart, cleaned it up and it worked beautifully the rest of the season. Although, the perfectionist in me always thought maybe with some other maintenance/repairs (i.e. door and window gaskets, face cap and plug gasket, auger gasket, etc) it could have been made to work even better. At that time, we had neither the money nor the time to rip it apart again but I figured I'd get to it at the beginning of this season.

And, I did... sort of.

I did not rip the whole thing apart again to get to the auger gasket, and didn't replace the face cap gasket either. But I did make an honest attempt to redo the door and window gasket. The only issue was that I didn't know what width of rope gasket I was supposed to use, only that it was wider than the last package of anything they had which was 3/8". So, I waited for their next shipment and bought something wider, 5/8". It also wasn't as wide as I thought I needed but it was the widest they sold and obviously the most popular since I was told they had a hard time keeping it in stock. Anyway, the gasket may or may not be the problem. I honestly don't know because even now, nearly two weeks later, I still haven't done the "dollar bill" test.

And now it may be a moot point because we had a bit of a problem with pellets backing up/jamming the auger. Yesterday morning I could hear the the fan and auger running but the fire had gone out. I thought the hopper was empty, just gave it a quick glance in dim light. I turned the stove off figuring I'd clean it up, fill it, and get it going later. So, when I finally got around to cleaning it I was sufficiently shocked to see one heck of a mess of black (soot?) burn marks and major pile of ash and partially burned pellets inside. The black burn marks were also on the back wall and partially up the shoot. YOWZA!


Ever the procrastinator, and also not wanting my non-handyman husband to miss the "fun" of cleaning it up and solving the problem from the inside out, I waited till evening to get going on the project. Got 'er tore apart and that's all. I figured that after I put the kids to bed, I'd hop online and order all the gaskets I'd wanted to get before plus the proper door and window rope stuff. I did look it all up and have everything ready to go, but haven't completed my order because I don't know if it's the wisest way to go about this. My stove is so old. I worry that the gaskets alone won't be solving my problem and getting replacement parts, if necessary, seems next to impossible.

So, ultimately, here's what I need to know:
Is this thing a dinousaur that's not worth patching up? How much more effecient are pellet stoves these days compared to mine?

It might be helpful to know that the stove is located in the basement which is, for all intents and purposes, unfinished (cement floors, no insulation, lost of stored junk). We do plan on finishing it (except for storage and utility areas) within the next year or so. Still, the stove cranks out enough heat to warm the basement and the rest of the 37 year-old house nicely during the past 30-40 degree days. Our objective is to never have to use the radient heating system which uses an LP gas boiler (I hope I said that right) unless we are seriously going to freeze to death without it. LP gas is highway robbery, IMO. The pellet stove, which my dad installed to replace a big ol'woodstove, is tied into the old chimney and nothing but that, as in nothing special to bring fresh air into the stove (don't know if it's always needed or only in certain circumtances).

Thanks, in advance, for any and all advice. I have nothing but this (or sales people on the floor-uh, no thanks) to consult about this kind of decision since (in my opnion) The Original Pyro Extraordinare a.k.a my dad passed away in January and my husband is clueless (irritating to say the least, but better left to discuss elsewhere and on another day).
 
Although I'm sure that even if you needed parts other than gaskets, you would eventually find them on ebay or something. However, I'm not sure I would go spending anything more than $100 or $150 in parts.

Another option would be for have someone come take a look at the stove and tell you if it just needs gaskets and a cleaning. If it needs any more, I would look into a new stove. Mostly because if you're having a difficult time finding parts now, its not going to get any easier as time goes by.

Having said all of that, there will be those much more knowledgeable than I along soon that also may be able to help you in a s source for parts.


J
 
Thanks, Joe.

I've been doing a bit of reserach on pellet stoves since my post, still trying to figure out my next move. A new stove was SO not in my plans/budget, although, it's not going to financially kill us if I can find a good deal. I am so back-and-forth on it, though. I live by the "use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without" motto, always. Not that I'm cheap, just can't stand extra spending and overpriced items. So, IF I am going to make the plunge and buy a whole "new fangled" stove it's going to take me a while to research prices and features.

So, I'm also looking for advice on which makers and/or models are the most popular/best. Again, thanks to all who take the time to reply.
 
There's some who find stoves on Craigslist or if you have some local paper in your area where people sell used items, then come back here to find out if its a good deal or not. Chances are that someone is going to own the stove you're looking at and will be able to tell you if its worth it or not. You can probably save a good chunk of $$$$$ doing that.

J

Edit: As far what's good and what's not in stoves, you're probably going to find most people here are quite happy with their stoves.
 
Have you tried to fire the stove up again since the pellets backed up?? If its backing up and getting sooty (was it sooty before?) then installing the wrong size gasket may have had some ill effect on the combustion of the unit.

Newer stoves are more advanced, but it depends on what your looking for.. If you are looking to tackle the job of heating your whole home, from an un-insulated basement. Then you will need a BIG stove and even then you may be disappointed.

If the stove ran fine before you cleaned it. It may just be the gaskets. When you took it apart and cleaned the stove. Did you remove both blowers (combustion and convection)? If so, did you clean the squirrel cage and the blades on the blowers? Along with putting SAE 20 (3-in1 oil/blue bottle) oil in the motors (at the oiling points, if it has them?).

A slow or failing combustion blower, bad gaskets, clogged vent, or dirty stove. Can all cause a bad burn (sooty).

Look on craiglist for some good used stoves. I found a Englander 25-PDV that came with 21 bags of pellets and all venting for $300. Works like a charm. Also be aware that heating the space you spend most of your time in, is the wise choice. If you spend time in the basement. Then o.k.... But the walls down there will eat up 25% or better (prob better) of your heat. Then you have the task of distributing the heat upstairs.

A stove in the living/family room is a safer bet, if you plan on using it as a "Primary" heat source. It can be done from a basement. But just not as efficiently as upstairs. IMHO
 
sounds like your handy...you could probably handle cutting your own gaskets. you can buy lytherm gasket material for $18 a sq. ft. that would probably cut your gasket costs considerably. used stoves are an option. i have purchased five. they all worked flawlessly but the next one could bite me on the arse. i paid less for all five then most people spend on one brand new one.
 
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Oh, this is fantastic. You all are awesome; this forum is awesome.

I've popped into many-a-forum room before about lots things but for my hobbies mostly and, sure, they've been helpful but so are several other sources generally, so I just forget about them the next time I'm needing something (whoa major run-on sentence). But this, hearth.com, this is a real gem... clearly, because I found it about 8 months ago when I ran into a problem and it was the first source I sought last night just to sift through what others are up to. Then, today, when I started debating old vs. new I knew I should hop on here to find advice before making any final decisions. I may not be looking in the right place (and I don't feel like I really need to) but there just doesn't seem to be any other pellet stove forums like this.

Anyway, already you've given me some things to think about. One of those being the blowers and that "squirrel cage" looking thing. Another being the walls sucking up my heat. Thanks, Dexter, for both of those ideas. I'm leaning towards fixing the old stove and using what I save to begin finishing the basement starting with the walls and adding insulation to the attic (been talking about doing that since dealing with ice dams last winter). Of course, I am a huge fan of Craigslist so I'll be keeping an eye on stoves, too.

But, back to fixing what I've got. 3650, you mentioned cutting my own gaskets. Sounds doable to me. Do you have any specific source for the material or should I be able to find it fairly easily anywhere? I had planned on ordering 3 or 4 a piece for both the auger and face cap/plug, so I'm sure cutting my own would cut costs since I'd get a few of each per sq foot. I think I'll surf the web a bit more on that and check back in one last time this evening before bed. And tomorrow I'll finally get back to getting that stove back in order, well, as much as I can till I get the gaskets.
 
What is this "Face Cap/Plug" you keep talking about? I am not really familiar with your actual model. But most stoves have the same parts (Convection Blower, Combustion Blower, Auger, Burn Pot, Heat Exchanger, Etc). Just wondering what it is? And where the gasket goes on it?

And Yes.. This forum is unlike any other I have seen or visited. Very nice people and very willing to help others. My kinda place.

Hope you get everything squared away. Of those blower motors are original. Then I am sure they could use a little drink of oil. There are normally 2 spots on the motors that have little rubber oil ports. May be hard to notice at first. But one will go towards one end (drive side) of the motor and one at the other end (cooling/open end). If its a Fasco motor, it more than likely has these 2 spots.

Cleaning the squirrel cage on the convection blower (room air) and the blades/fins on the combustion blower (exhaust) will make it a little more efficient than what it may be. Especially if they have gone uncleaned for a long period (over 2-3 yrs in my book)..

Good luck. Keep us posted.
 
i got mine at woodheatstove.com i think was the website.
 
Hopefully this works, I'm never quite sure when attaching things but... I'm attaching a picture of the stove diagram to show the metal face plate. Well, it shows lots of things, but I thought it would be better at explaining the face plate and plug than I am. That part is what I have to remove to get to the ash rake and heat exchange tubes. I'm sure the designer meant well with that ash rake but honestly it doesn't do enough to clean the tubes. I use various brushes instead. But that's sort of off topic. Anyways, that's how I access that area including the exhaust tube. That picture also shows the gasket, #16 on that diagram.

While I'm on the topic of this diagram, I've got a question about the ash pans. I think most of you have ash pans that are situated behind their own separate access door. I think this because I can't find anything like this one's. I have 2 ash pans that sit on either side of the burn pot. My question is this: The ash pans have one wall that's slightly taller and with a handle of sorts, just bent metal. You can see it in the diagram (#12) but they only show one. I've always put that longer wall against the left or right side wall of the stove. I think I do that because that's how it was when we started using it last winter, though, I can't say as I paid attention to how they went in before I yanked them out to clean it up before firing it up that first time. Does that sound right? Or, would the tall wall go next to the fire pot to create a sort of "wall" around it? Or, maybe it doesn't even matter, hahaha. Seems like everything does matter on one of these though, and getting each little detail right makes for a better fire. Guess i can figure that out when I get it all back together and running again.

So, it's off to bed for me because tomorrow promises to be a fun filled day of vacuuming, ashes, soot, dust and heaven-only-knows-what from the blowers and squirrel cage thing... should be awesome, or maybe an awesome mess for a bit... I won't even get started on shop vacs and learning the importance of the "fine dust/ash" filter or risk having black filth EVERYWHERE.
 

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I am still using my US Stoves Paragon Model 5440 pellet stove I purchased in the Fall of 1996. It is a 12V AC(!) system internally and is designed to be easily hooked up to a 12V DC battery backup with no extra "kit" required. Originally, I had a bank of 6 12V car batteries in parallel for backup but now, after having installed a backup generator, use just a single lawn tractor battery to keep the stove running through the 30 second outage before the backup generator starts. This is needed since the starting is manual ... no ignitor.

The biggest drawbacks to this unit are:
1) Only a single blower for both the combustion and output circulator. You have only two speeds and that changes both the blower speed and the auger feed rate.
2) The darned combustion box is welded shut so it's nearly impossible to get at the air tubes which are set horizontally back-to-front across the top of the chamber. The only access to clean the outside of the tubes is from below in the main chamber but the tubes are offset and getting a wire brush in there is pretty hopeless. There is the designed access through the "face plate and plug" to get at a scraper which is intended to be pulled forward and back using a screw-in rod (mine was missing ... I made my own) but this never really seems to get all the scale off the tubes.
3) No auto-start. Most newer units actually stop and restart as needed and are much more efficient because of this ... the 5440 is entirely manual (although a thermostat can be attached, for whatever reason).
4) No bottom ash pan. The stove has to be shut down completely to clean out the ash pans, although I have been known to have used a long-handled metal spoon to dip out ashes when I'm too lazy to do a complete cleaning.

When I first had the unit, the heat even at low speed would blast you out of the room. However, over the years, the output has diminished to the point that the stove can barely keep up on colder days. I'll probably buy another unit this Fall which I can clean better and try to sell the 5440 to someone who needs to heat a small shop or such. In fact, I was just looking at new units this afternoon and was looking to try to find out what the output (BTUs) for this unit would have been when new (to know what I need to replace it). Could only find the current US Stoves Model 5040 which is similar and is 40,000 BTU max.

I'd have expected to have found links to a supplier who has replacement parts but looks like that might be nearly impossible. Maybe you could contact US Stoves since they are still in business (I have had success for replacement parts with both the Gravely and Shopsmith factories).

btw ... the glass gasket is 3/4" diameter ... Owner's Manual doesn't say about the door gasket. I just checked my parts crib and find an intact 5/8" gasket set and the remains of a 1/2" cord so I'd almost believe that the 5/8" was too large and the 1/2" the correct size but I just don't remember. Also, the ash pan handles go to the outside. And, when I needed to replace the gasket on the "face plate and plug", I just put a ring of high-temp silicon around the "plug", struck waxed paper between the "face plate" and the unit, screwed it on just enough to spread out the silicon until it was dry, removed the waxed paper, and it has been sealing fine ever since.

Sparkydog, I'll scan my 5448/5440 Owner's Manual and put it into this thread as soon as I can get to it.
 
I have a scanned copy of the 5440 OM if anyone needs it PM me and I'll e-mail it..

The Fan assembly is no longer available. As far as gaskets, you can still get most of them on the net and such, but a bead of RTV silicone will work just fine and is usually cheaper to use.
 
Okay, I won't bother to scan the Owner's Manual, if it's available from you (Owen1508). I've seen other urgent requests on the web asking for a copy so maybe you could offer it elsewhere.

Do you have a link to any reliable sources of replacement parts for this unit? Sounds like you may have done some research already.
 
The Fan(when we had it) listed for 500+ dollars, better to buy new stove. Thermo disks and auger motor are still available and are still used in some stoves today. Gaskets like I said you will be cheaper using RTV. If you have a particular need let me know and I'll check for you.
 
Hopefully this works, I'm never quite sure when attaching things but... I'm attaching a picture of the stove diagram to show the metal face plate. Well, it shows lots of things, but I thought it would be better at explaining the face plate and plug than I am. That part is what I have to remove to get to the ash rake and heat exchange tubes. I'm sure the designer meant well with that ash rake but honestly it doesn't do enough to clean the tubes. I use various brushes instead. But that's sort of off topic. Anyways, that's how I access that area including the exhaust tube. That picture also shows the gasket, #16 on that diagram.

While I'm on the topic of this diagram, I've got a question about the ash pans. I think most of you have ash pans that are situated behind their own separate access door. I think this because I can't find anything like this one's. I have 2 ash pans that sit on either side of the burn pot. My question is this: The ash pans have one wall that's slightly taller and with a handle of sorts, just bent metal. You can see it in the diagram (#12) but they only show one. I've always put that longer wall against the left or right side wall of the stove. I think I do that because that's how it was when we started using it last winter, though, I can't say as I paid attention to how they went in before I yanked them out to clean it up before firing it up that first time. Does that sound right? Or, would the tall wall go next to the fire pot to create a sort of "wall" around it? Or, maybe it doesn't even matter, hahaha. Seems like everything does matter on one of these though, and getting each little detail right makes for a better fire. Guess i can figure that out when I get it all back together and running again.

So, it's off to bed for me because tomorrow promises to be a fun filled day of vacuuming, ashes, soot, dust and heaven-only-knows-what from the blowers and squirrel cage thing... should be awesome, or maybe an awesome mess for a bit... I won't even get started on shop vacs and learning the importance of the "fine dust/ash" filter or risk having black filth EVERYWHERE.
Do you have the page or list that identifies each part according to the number assigned in the diagram?
 
upload_2015-3-26_9-55-24.png

Best copy I could find...hopefully one of the staff members can assist in a better posting.
 
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The list above is page 36 i n the OM. Pm me your e-mail and I'll send you my copy of the OM that has that list in it. No telling what else it is missing.

Edit: spoke with stacy she sent you the 1994 5448/5440 version
 
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Wow see if this works...didn't know I could upload the whole OM.....
 

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Sparkydog, I'll scan my 5448/5440 Owner's Manual and put it into this thread as soon as I can get to it.


Ahh the 5440/5448 is from 1994
the 5440 Paragon is the 1993 version.
that's where the difference is
 
Do you have the page or list that identifies each part according to the number assigned in the diagram?
Thank you Owen for the complete manual. I inquired earlier here about not having a location for fresh air intake on the back of the Paragon 5440. Indeed there is not. Is it located another place on this model?
 
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