I give up on Oak.

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For what it's worth, I find if I stack my red oak on the south side uncovered the sun and wind is sufficient to get it ready in two summers worth of drying. (Not this year, though, with the constant rain.) Ditto for my stacks that are under roofs with decent airflow but little sun. But red oak, especially with bark, that isn't covered and isn't on the south side will be ready to burn approximately never. To be fair, that mostly applies to every other wood species also. If I have to store it in those areas I always move it under cover half a year before I burn it. I only have 1/6 acre but I manage to keep 2 years on hand, so it works out ok.

White oak, which some say is even worse, I find is burnable after a year. Go figure.
 
cptoneleg said:
Thats really funny all these educated Woodburners swearing off Oak. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

I was going to start a thread about my recent thoughts of becoming an oak only wood snob, then this thread popped up.
 
DiscoInferno said:
For what it's worth, I find if I stack my red oak on the south side uncovered the sun and wind is sufficient to get it ready in two summers worth of drying. (Not this year, though, with the constant rain.) Ditto for my stacks that are under roofs with decent airflow but little sun. But red oak, especially with bark, that isn't covered and isn't on the south side will be ready to burn approximately never. To be fair, that mostly applies to every other wood species also. If I have to store it in those areas I always move it under cover half a year before I burn it. I only have 1/6 acre but I manage to keep 2 years on hand, so it works out ok.

White oak, which some say is even worse, I find is burnable after a year. Go figure.
Click to expand...

That's really interesting because I don't cover my red oak and it's ready after about 18 months. I assume VA and MD would have similar climates? I don't know what it would read on a moisture meter but I know it burns fine and doesn't hiss. I did cut after it had been down awhile so I'm sure that factors in as well.
 
Oak and hickory is all we have. So far, the stove seems to like it. Doan matter, no choice.
 
I feel lucky to get mostly oak. I have great success with the white oak. The red is what seems to really take a long time. It splits stringier and gives off more odor. Many times with the red I actually see water run off the top of the round as the 30 ton drives the wedge in. It must just hold alot more moisture to begin with. I mix in locust which is pretty much the only other wood I get and it helps keep a hot fire and bring the oak along if I am using the red slightly before it's time. Tough as the red is I have never had a problem if it gets two summers, i.e. c/s/s in spring and ready the next/following winter. Like everyone has said, airflow, summer sun, and off the ground. I can only store 3-4 cords with my current setup and the cord or so that is red oak is so nice to burn once it is ready. Of course it's about whatever works for you as long as your kept warm it does'nt matter much what you burn. :)
 
I hate the time oak takes but I'll never pass on it. I have plenty of room to let it season, the wait is awful though! I have oak that reads 15% on my meter and some of it still shows moisture on the ends if I burn it,(no bubbles just slight wetness in spots) I then take some white ash reading in the Mid 20's on the same meter and not a bit of moisture out of the ends! The oak has three summers on it the white ash one! :lol:

I love white ash but in this state it won't be around for much longer. Unfortunately I don't think this bug is going anywhere so it's going to be a problem for all of us.
 
Sounds like to me the best way to get 3 years ahead is get a years supply of Oak.
In 3 years you have some awesome wood.
Then all you have to do is work on the in-between year now & not get oak.
Anyone headed to Alaska can bring a load of oak, I'd love to give it a try. :) The drive & wind would help season it on the way. LOL
 
bogydave said:
Sounds like to me the best way to get 3 years ahead is get a years supply of Oak.
In 3 years you have some awesome wood.
Then all you have to do is work on the in-between year now & not get oak.
Anyone headed to Alaska can bring a load of oak, I'd love to give it a try. :) The drive & wind would help season it on the way. LOL
Click to expand...




Get one of them Ice Road Truckers to swing by and I will load him up for you. :zip:
 
red oak said:
DiscoInferno said:
For what it's worth, I find if I stack my red oak on the south side uncovered the sun and wind is sufficient to get it ready in two summers worth of drying. (Not this year, though, with the constant rain.) Ditto for my stacks that are under roofs with decent airflow but little sun. But red oak, especially with bark, that isn't covered and isn't on the south side will be ready to burn approximately never. To be fair, that mostly applies to every other wood species also. If I have to store it in those areas I always move it under cover half a year before I burn it. I only have 1/6 acre but I manage to keep 2 years on hand, so it works out ok.

White oak, which some say is even worse, I find is burnable after a year. Go figure.
Click to expand...

That's really interesting because I don't cover my red oak and it's ready after about 18 months. I assume VA and MD would have similar climates? I don't know what it would read on a moisture meter but I know it burns fine and doesn't hiss. I did cut after it had been down awhile so I'm sure that factors in as well.
Click to expand...

I think our climates are about the same, but probably you're able to stack more out in the open, with less-dense stacks? My stack on the north side is against the house, doesn't get enough sun or wind. My stack to the east is next to a retaining wall and under trees, same deal. Both are two or more rows with no gap, which also limits airflow. It's the tradeoff for storing 8-9 cords without filling up my yard.
 
Glad I found this thread. We have 3 cords white oak C/S/S in open place scheduled for use 2013/14 but now I wonder if it might not be ready for a few more years. Better get me a backup plan...
 
DiscoInferno said:
red oak said:
DiscoInferno said:
For what it's worth, I find if I stack my red oak on the south side uncovered the sun and wind is sufficient to get it ready in two summers worth of drying. (Not this year, though, with the constant rain.) Ditto for my stacks that are under roofs with decent airflow but little sun. But red oak, especially with bark, that isn't covered and isn't on the south side will be ready to burn approximately never. To be fair, that mostly applies to every other wood species also. If I have to store it in those areas I always move it under cover half a year before I burn it. I only have 1/6 acre but I manage to keep 2 years on hand, so it works out ok.

White oak, which some say is even worse, I find is burnable after a year. Go figure.
Click to expand...

That's really interesting because I don't cover my red oak and it's ready after about 18 months. I assume VA and MD would have similar climates? I don't know what it would read on a moisture meter but I know it burns fine and doesn't hiss. I did cut after it had been down awhile so I'm sure that factors in as well.
Click to expand...

I think our climates are about the same, but probably you're able to stack more out in the open, with less-dense stacks? My stack on the north side is against the house, doesn't get enough sun or wind. My stack to the east is next to a retaining wall and under trees, same deal. Both are two or more rows with no gap, which also limits airflow. It's the tradeoff for storing 8-9 cords without filling up my yard.
Click to expand...

That makes more sense to me and I'm sure you're right. My stacks are out in the open and in the summer get at least 12 hours of sun. I stack them together but that has never seemed to stop them from drying. I have about 7 acres so I'm able to store pretty much what I want. Another example of how conditions can be so different for each of us, even in similar climates!
 
rdust said:
I hate the time oak takes but I'll never pass on it. I have plenty of room to let it season, the wait is awful though! I have oak that reads 15% on my meter and some of it still shows moisture on the ends if I burn it,(no bubbles just slight wetness in spots) I then take some white ash reading in the Mid 20's on the same meter and not a bit of moisture out of the ends! The oak has three summers on it the white ash one! :lol:

I love white ash but in this state it won't be around for much longer. Unfortunately I don't think this bug is going anywhere so it's going to be a problem for all of us.
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That's odd, I never have moisture coming out the ends on my Oak, I guess I need to do some research and burn some with 20% moisture (or even 25%). But ya gotta love the White Ash.
 
I threw in 3 med sized splits of 25% (in the middle) Burr Oak and no hissing or moisture coming out the ends and it started right off on a bed of coals, do not understand the differences that people are seeing.
 
oldspark said:
I threw in 3 med sized splits of 25% (in the middle) Burr Oak and no hissing or moisture coming out the ends and it started right off on a bed of coals, do not understand the differences that people are seeing.
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Difference must be in the moisture meter of interpretation thereof.
 
oldspark said:
I threw in 3 med sized splits of 25% (in the middle) Burr Oak and no hissing or moisture coming out the ends and it started right off on a bed of coals, do not understand the differences that people are seeing.
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I can't explain it but I've seen it many times with the oak I have. I don't hear hissing or see bubbling but I'm anal and will watch them with a flash light on the wood to see if "anything" comes out. It doesn't last but a few minutes so it may just be some moisture that got sucked into the end grain. Most of it is red oak I'm not sure if that's different than burr oak. Last year I made a post about it with the wood at 20% and BK explained it this way:

"End grain will soak up a lot of water, especially in woods like oak, ash, and hickory that have lots of big, open pores (ring-porous). They’re like thousands of tiny drinking straws that go from end to end inside the split. Ironically, the drier the wood, the faster water can go back in at the ends, but it doesn’t usually go very deep unless the wood has been soaking wet for a period of time. If it’s 20% on the inside, a little sizzle on the ends ain’t killing the deal. I’m convinced that half the complaints about oak sizzling are caused by end-grain absorption of water after it is seasoned."

Last year I burned some at 20% and it burned great, I didn't need it so I left it for this year. I'm burning other woods right now but I'll toss a couple in the stove today and see if I can get a picture to post.
 
rdust said:
Last year I made a post about it with the wood at 20% and BK explained it this way:

"End grain will soak up a lot of water, especially in woods like oak, ash, and hickory that have lots of big, open pores (ring-porous). They’re like thousands of tiny drinking straws that go from end to end inside the split. Ironically, the drier the wood, the faster water can go back in at the ends, but it doesn’t usually go very deep unless the wood has been soaking wet for a period of time. If it’s 20% on the inside, a little sizzle on the ends ain’t killing the deal. I’m convinced that half the complaints about oak sizzling are caused by end-grain absorption of water after it is seasoned."
Click to expand...

For the record, I was talking about 20% water by weight, not 20% MC on a meter. Old Spark is talking about 25% on the meter, so that is wetter than stuff you measured at 20%. At 20% on the meter, your wood was in fact only 16% water by weight... even less if you consider that the average MC throughout the split is somewhere between the inside measurement and the outside measurement.

I think I showed that pretty convincingly in the "Denniswood" thread. His wood measured 28% MC inside, but the oven-dry method proved it was only 18% water by weight for the entire split after 100% of the water had been driven out. For that reason, I recommend taking both inside and outside readings, correcting both readings for species (using a table from a pro-grade meter), and averaging them. Using just the inside reading doesn't really tell you much about the entire split.

Ya know, I would never have used the terms "wet-basis" and "dry-basis" on this board if it weren't for all the folks relying on meters to tell their MC but failing to know what they really tell you. It's has always been the rule within the wood heating industry that <20% water by weight is the ideal MC, and that advise is still sound, but that means it will read 25% MC on the meter. Just no getting around it, that's simply the way they work.

BTW DWH, the 34% MC meter reading on your red oak tells you that it is only 25% water by weight. And another thing about red oak... it need no species correction on the meter reading. It has the same electrical resistivity as Doug fir, the wood they use as the standard for the meters.
 
Battenkiller said:
rdust said:
Last year I made a post about it with the wood at 20% and BK explained it this way:

"End grain will soak up a lot of water, especially in woods like oak, ash, and hickory that have lots of big, open pores (ring-porous). They’re like thousands of tiny drinking straws that go from end to end inside the split. Ironically, the drier the wood, the faster water can go back in at the ends, but it doesn’t usually go very deep unless the wood has been soaking wet for a period of time. If it’s 20% on the inside, a little sizzle on the ends ain’t killing the deal. I’m convinced that half the complaints about oak sizzling are caused by end-grain absorption of water after it is seasoned."
Click to expand...

For the record, I was talking about 20% water by weight, not 20% MC on a meter. Old Spark is talking about 25% on the meter, so that is wetter than stuff you measured at 20%. At 20% on the meter, your wood was in fact only 16% water by weight... even less if you consider that the average MC throughout the split is somewhere between the inside measurement and the outside measurement.

I think I showed that pretty convincingly in the "Denniswood" thread. His wood measured 28% MC inside, but the oven-dry method proved it was only 18% water by weight for the entire split after 100% of the water had been driven out. For that reason, I recommend taking both inside and outside readings, correcting both readings for species (using a table from a pro-grade meter), and averaging them. Using just the inside reading doesn't really tell you much about the entire split.

Ya know, I would never have used the terms "wet-basis" and "dry-basis" on this board if it weren't for all the folks relying on meters to tell their MC but failing to know what they really tell you. It's has always been the rule within the wood heating industry that <20% water by weight is the ideal MC, and that advise is still sound, but that means it will read 25% MC on the meter. Just no getting around it, that's simply the way they work.

BTW DWH, the 34% MC meter reading on your red oak tells you that it is only 25% water by weight. And another thing about red oak... it need no species correction on the meter reading. It has the same electrical resistivity as Doug fir, the wood they use as the standard for the meters.
Click to expand...







Are you saying that if a MM reads 25% it really means 20%???? And just what MM reading should all the non-rocket-scientest go by ?????
 
When I work with oak boards, many times when I glue them together, I see glue coming out up to a few inches away from the glue joint, thru pores in the wood.
I think this would make me cover it, if glues can travel thru the pores , rain water surely will.
Oak is real porous wood, covering it would be important for me if it was going to rain. Water gets deeper into the oak splits where other wood is just wet on the surface.
I can understand the wide variances in drying time many have mentioned.
Rain soaks into oak thru pores, wet rainy areas, it may never dry if not covered. then some cover & are in drier climates, it dries faster & stays drier if covered.
Just an observation from working with West Virginia Red Oak, my Dad & I cut on his saw mill 15 years ago. I have it in the shop stacked up, treat it like a precious metal. (some maple & cherry boards too).
Just some observations & thoughts that may help those with the "luxury" of having oak for fire wood.
;)
 
The other thing is that red oak bark is very thick and dense (and near waterproof). If I pull the bark off a split in an uncovered stack, it's almost always wet under there. When I move my "next year" stacks to the "this year" stacks between seasons, I try to pull as much bark off as possible. I stack it separately and I'll burn a load of bark now and then.
 
I just split and stacked a cord of oak. I put it outside my storage bin (an old grain bin with the door open and the top off) and topped it with some tin and bricks. I thought this was the best method for drying? No?
 
bogydave said:
When I work with oak boards, many times when I glue them together, I see glue coming out up to a few inches away from the glue joint, thru pores in the wood.
I think this would make me cover it, if glues can travel thru the pores , rain water surely will.
Oak is real porous wood, covering it would be important for me if it was going to rain. Water gets deeper into the oak splits where other wood is just wet on the surface.
I can understand the wide variances in drying time many have mentioned.
Rain soaks into oak thru pores, wet rainy areas, it may never dry if not covered. then some cover & are in drier climates, it dries faster & stays drier if covered.
Just an observation from working with West Virginia Red Oak, my Dad & I cut on his saw mill 15 years ago. I have it in the shop stacked up, treat it like a precious metal. (some maple & cherry boards too).
Just some observations & thoughts that may help those with the "luxury" of having oak for fire wood.
;)
Click to expand...

Very good point. I've never covered my wood (although I do recommend it), or had a real wood shed. That might be part of the problem. I might like oak better if the rain didn't keep setting it back. We get a lot of rain here most years. That may be why I always liked white oak a lot better than red. Besides it's higher BTU content, it also has structures inside the tubules of the heartwood that don't allow water to flow through them. Red oak doesn't have these, so even though rapid end drying is inhibited in white oak, it doesn't get soaked at the ends either.

When I bought my current stove, it came with a cord of wood that was mostly red oak that was about three years old according to the guy I got it from. That wood was stored under cover and I brought the whole cord right into the basement. It was phenomenal firewood, as good as just about any as far as I was concerned. So, I know why folks like it. It's wonderful wood... if you can get it dry and keep it dry.
 
Well I was all ready to take pictures of oak showing moisture on the ends. I split a couple of 3x4 splits and hit them with the meter in multiple places, took some pictures and tossed them in the stove. Well these pieces didn't show any moisture so a photo opportunity did not come up. The pieces were reading 12-13% on the meter which really surprises me since I've never seen wood this low in this area on my meter. I touched it to my hand and it read 35% so it seems ok. We haven't had any major rain around here lately though so maybe that's the difference.

Who knows, either way it's going to see the stove this year and even last season after it's second summer seasoning it would've burned fine so I will continue to collect it when I can. :)
 
Im convinced I will just throw this OAK away, 2 summers will work here in Va. 6 month will work if you never read this site, not saying that dryer wood is not better, just saying, keeps us warm and its the only heat we use is wood mostly OAK.

Rocket Scientist At Work
 

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2 summers here in Va 15 months chestnut Oak
 

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