New Stove Thoughts

Snipew4 · Nov 3, 2011

First I would like to extend my greeting to you all from a recent new comer to this forum. I found this sight researching new wood stoves and poked around for a while before finally deciding the best way to get an answer is just to ask.

I'd like to replace my more than 20 year old Jotul 3TD with another more efficient, cast iron unit. Over that time, it has been reliable, low maintenance and easy to use but, it also has short burn time and a small fire box. Last winter was cold here in Maryland so I probably went through close to 2 cords, mixed hardwood. I also previously had a Vermont Castings when I lived in RI so I have been burning wood for well over the last 30 years.

The stove is located in a less than 300 sq ft room in the finished lower level of a two level raised ranch. The total lower level is @ 960 sq ft total and I have a floor register and fan to help move heat up. The upper level is a little more than 1000 sq ft total. The house is pretty well insulated and the heat from the 3TD warms the open upper living/dining area, which has a vaulted ceiling, enough that my electric heat pump does not run constantly. I would like to get something a little bigger, burns longer, is reliable, and that takes a larger than 18â€ length of wood. I am not looking for something that is very temperamental or maintenance intrusive if possible.

I was looking at the VC Dutchwest 2478 but I have some reservation about it. The rear exit, is 27 Â¼â€ high and my horizontal through wall connection is only 26 Â½â€ high to center. The dealer talked about cutting the legs an inch or so but; Iâ€™m not that hard over on this stove that I want to start my installation by cutting the legs. Plus, in spite of the good reviews this stove gets, I have read some not so great feedback on it. It seems that the stove is a little difficult to use, high maintenance and maybe less than reliable. I thought my old VC was fairly simple and reliable but I bought that over 30 years ago. Have the newer stoves changed that much?

I am also considering just going back to a Jotul, the F400 Castine. The size looks adequate and rear exit dimension, 25 Â½â€, will work without any modifications. It seems to have very little negative feedback. My wife would prefer one with a side door which the F400 does not have. The F500 Oslo does but, Iâ€™m not sure if it would be too big for my installation.

Iâ€™m just looking for any thoughs, opinions and any pros or cons of the Jotul vs. Dutchwest from current/former users of each. Iâ€™m also open for any other suggested choices I should consider looking at.

Thanks!

Stump_Branch · Nov 3, 2011

Welcome, fellow MD'er.

That dutchwest uses the ever burn system, search never burn. VC used this avalon arbor, that model dutchwest..to name a few.

Jotul i found to make a nice stove. I heat 2100ft single level ranch well with mine. Folks here will recomend going bigger then what you think, coupled with switching to an epa stove.

Look at the 2462 model. A cat stove if your stuck on dutchwest.

Good luck.

leeave96 · Nov 4, 2011

If you are going with the Dutchwest, I'd get the cat version.

I have a stove in a small living room and another stove in a much larger/open basement install. My stove in the smaller room is the stove wth a catalyist combustor. I think for you install, you should consider one of these. I sound like a broken record on this forum, but I would also recommend the stove I have for your applicaton, the Woodstock Keystone. I checked the rear exit height and if anythng, you'd have to raise the stove a few inches vs being to high at the exit. This stove is a most beautiful soapstone stove, it is very simple and easy to operate. Woodstock has one of the best support teams you wlll find too. It is also sde load and has a great ash pan. You wll bet burn times over 8 hrs too.

The reason for a cat stove is simply so you can turn the stove down to a smolder when you don't need all the heat - yet get a very clean burn via the cat.

Do a search on Woodstock stoves and visit their website at woodstove.com or just give them a call.

Good luck,
Bill

remkel · Nov 4, 2011

Guess I will jump in-

I too was a VC baby- grew up with a Defiant in the house and had a Vigilant until this year when I bought the F600. The Jotul stove has been fantastic so far- big heater. Now, I know that it is not the F400, but I thought you might appreciate some testimony from another person who only knew VC before moving on to a new stove.

As for the F500, I have only heard good things about that stove.

begreen · Nov 4, 2011

The F500 Oslo is what I would upgrade to. The F400 is a very nice stove, but the F500 will give you the burn times you desire and the side loading your wife desires. It won't be too much heat if you run smaller loads in it until the weather gets below freezing.

kingquad · Nov 4, 2011

Woodstock Fireview. Longer burn times than the Keystone. Side load. Excellent customer service. Great sale price right now too. If the wife doesn't like the Fireview, then I'd go with the Oslo.

certified106 · Nov 4, 2011

I would not consider the Dutchwest 2478 as there is a long history of problems and unsuccessful attemps to get the stove to work.

Snipew4 · Nov 4, 2011

Thanks for all the input. I really thought it was going to be a simple thing to upgrade my stove. There are obviously more variables involved than I originally thought.

I stopped at 2 different places to look at Jotuls today. And as things seem to be going, one recommended the F500, the other the F400. The F500 recommendation was of the opinion to go a little bigger, the other felt the F400 would be adequate. Difference in price is @ $300. I'm still not sure why a smaller fire in a bigger stove is better. It seems that many of you, in different posts I've read, are of that opinion. Can anyone clarify that a little for me?

Anyway still looking and deciding. Lots of nice stoves out there.

jotul8e2 · Nov 4, 2011

Snipew4 said:
I'm still not sure why a smaller fire in a bigger stove is better. It seems that many of you, in different posts I've read, are of that opinion. Can anyone clarify that a little for me?

I do not know what people mean by that either, and I have been following these forums for five years. Non-cat EPA stoves have to operate at a minimum firebox temperature for the secondary burn to function. Below those temperatures you are producing smoke, creosote, and other gases that we all knew and lived with 30 years ago. A "small fire" may in fact produce the necessary temperatures but obviously for a shorter time; if that is what people mean, then I certainly understand that. That said, my Jotul Oslo will work with a surface temperature range of nearly 300 deg. f., controlled by the secondary air control. This is a vast difference in btu output, but it has little to do with the "size" of the fire.

I happen to have both the Oslo in my house and a (older) cat Dutchwest in my shop. Given the size of your house, I do not think you would be disappointed in the Oslo. My old Dutchwest is a pain to operate, but the newer ones are far better and I would certainly get the cat version over the Everburn. Given your house size I would also get the "Large" size. If you are deciding between those two your biggest factors are going to be appearance and whether you want a cat or non-cat stove. There is no "right" answer to this question, just a matter of preference. As noted above, the cat stoves do allow somewhat more control over heat output. They do take a bit more maintenance, but it is still pretty minimal. I do not have one, but the poster that mentioned the Fireview has a good point and it should be about the perfect size for your house.

I am dealing with the shoulder season here in southern Mo. right now. I have been building a single fire on the coldest nights and just letting it go. I get tired of starting fires again and again, but by Thanksgiving we usually burn 24/7 until Easter.

raybonz · Nov 4, 2011

DW is a good stove only in the cat version.. I owned a CDW large convection for over 20 years nad it rarely needed a part.. Jotuls are a good stove as you know and all the new ones are well made and low maintenance too..

Good Luck!

Ray

BrotherBart · Nov 5, 2011

The fallacy is that in an EPA non-cat stove you have to burn the daylights out of it to get a clean burn. It just ain't true. I have three. From less that a cubic foot firebox to a 3.5 CF. The 3.5 is sitting in the family room right now with two splits burning happily along with a stove top temp of 450 degrees and no smoke. Good dry wood in all three stoves will do the same thing.

But on a sub-teen night that big boy has the room and the extra heating capacity to get'er done all night long at a temp that keeps this joint warm. That is the go big or go home reasoning. The smaller ones wouldn't be able to do it.

Stump_Branch · Nov 5, 2011

Dont limit yourself but by the above looke at jotul oslo, dutchwest 2462 or woodstock fireview. I own the oslo, id love to have either the other two as well with a slight nod to woodstock because i have yet to hear a dissatisfied customer.

In that range and style theres the vermont castings encore or defiant 2 in 1.

If your close to baltimore go to ellicott city and go to clarks ace hardware, nice place.

Patapsco Mike · Nov 5, 2011

I am in Ellicott City, and once heated my house with a large Dutchwest- then an Avalon Olympic- then a Blaze King. If someone told me today I had to burn a Dutchwest again, I'd quit burning wood. The crazy thing is, I liked my Dutchwest when I had it. It was, and remains, a decent stove. But its short burn times, fickle controls, shallow sill, loud fan and ridiculous design (replacing the cat is a major pain) make me shudder about what I went through. Not to mention all the extra wood I burned... Keep looking, and do yourself a favor and look at more stoves. I believe there isn't much that can compare to a good cat stove. A Woodstock, Blaze King, or similar. All have their advantages, and all are great stoves. The burn times alone make them worth it. You won't look back.

firefighterjake · Nov 7, 2011

I've always been a believer in sticking with a brand that you know has worked for you in the past . . . until you have a bad experience . . . it certainly wouldn't hurt to go with Jotul again if you had such good luck with them in the past.

Snipew4 · Nov 8, 2011

Again thanks for the input. To my fellow MD'ers, I'm closer to Annapolis than to Baltimore. Firefighterjake: I lived out on Mt Desert Island-Bass Harbor-what seems a life time ago. Still looking at stoves but heavily leaning to the F500 Oslo. I would have to expand the width and depth of my hearth floor but that's not difficult. My wife remindes me we do open and close doors to help "adjust the heat" anyway so a little larger stove may mean we can just leave them all open. It just seem that it may be the best option.

jotulguy · Nov 8, 2011

There is a great Jotul dealer named Fireside stone and patio in Clarksville Md. Have you checked them out?

Stump_Branch · Nov 8, 2011

jotulguy said:
There is a great Jotul dealer named Fireside stone and patio in Clarksville Md. Have you checked them out?

You thought so? Nice selection i guess. Finch services had good prices on jotuls last time i was there. Customer service is so so.

Good luck with your search

Snipew4 · Nov 8, 2011

No I have not. I hit the two closest Ace Hearth & Hardware stores listed on Jotuls sight as my closest dealers.

firefighterjake · Nov 8, 2011

Snipew4 said:
Again thanks for the input. To my fellow MD'ers, I'm closer to Annapolis than to Baltimore. Firefighterjake: I lived out on Mt Desert Island-Bass Harbor-what seems a life time ago. Still looking at stoves but heavily leaning to the F500 Oslo. I would have to expand the width and depth of my hearth floor but that's not difficult. My wife remindes me we do open and close doors to help "adjust the heat" anyway so a little larger stove may mean we can just leave them all open. It just seem that it may be the best option.

Not to sway your opinion too much . . . but there are very few Oslo owners here who have had issues with their woodstove . . . most of us place the Oslo just one or two steps below loving our spouses, children and pets . . . mainly because the stoves work well and are reliable . . . and are kind of sexy looking too.

You can regulate the heat without having to open and close doors and windows . . . heat regulation with the Oslo is all about the fuel . . . how much you put in, how soon you reload, what type of wood you put in in terms of species for BTUs and size, etc. It's a learning experience . . . i.e. the first year we had a 30 degree night and I started loading a bunch of sugar maple into the stove . . . kept reloading it every 2-3 hours . . . when morning came the house was hotter than Hades . . . fast forward to now and in the past few weeks I've been doing partial to full loads of my punks, chunks and uglies with lower BTU wood and not bothering with reloading the stove and instead have allowed the warm stove to radiate heat and keep the house warm for the rest of the day or night.

Hearth floor . . . the nice thing about the Oslo (and many other modern woodstoves) is that many only require ember-protection . . . not a high R value . . . although personally I like to overbuild things a bit for safety sake . . . and my own personal peace of mind.

BrowningBAR · Nov 8, 2011

Snipew4 said:
Thanks for all the input. I really thought it was going to be a simple thing to upgrade my stove. There are obviously more variables involved than I originally thought.

I stopped at 2 different places to look at Jotuls today. And as things seem to be going, one recommended the F500, the other the F400. The F500 recommendation was of the opinion to go a little bigger, the other felt the F400 would be adequate. Difference in price is @ $300. I'm still not sure why a smaller fire in a bigger stove is better. It seems that many of you, in different posts I've read, are of that opinion. Can anyone clarify that a little for me?

Anyway still looking and deciding. Lots of nice stoves out there.

I would go with the f500 in this case. You already have used a Jotul. You are familiar with them. The F500 is larger and will give you longer burn times.

As BrotherBart mentioned, you don't have to burn the hell out of a Non-cat stove to get a clean smokeless burn out of it. The reason for going with a slightly larger unit is that you have the flexibility to produce more heat if the need calls for it, which tends to happen at least once a winter when unseasonably cold weather stops by.

Snipew4 · Nov 14, 2011

Well after some more looking, I ordered my new F500 Oslo this weekend. Should be in a few weeks so that gives me time to adjust my hearth size a little. No big deal since the current one is surrounded by a concrete floor with vinyl tile around it. I'm sure I'll have some questions after I install it and get started using it.

Thanks for the input from all. Great sight to look for info !!!

raybonz · Nov 14, 2011

Snipew4 said:
Well after some more looking, I ordered my new F500 Oslo this weekend. Should be in a few weeks so that gives me time to adjust my hearth size a little. No big deal since the current one is surrounded by a concrete floor with vinyl tile around it. I'm sure I'll have some questions after I install it and get started using it.

Thanks for the input from all. Great sight to look for info

Congrats and welcome to the forum!

Ray

firefighterjake · Nov 15, 2011

Congrats on the purchase.

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