New owner help with wood for this season.

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EddieB

New Member
Nov 9, 2011
19
Long island
First, I'd like to thank so many of you here for your insight and guidance that I found reading these forums. I couldn't
take the high cost of home heating oil one more winter. Last year we spent about $4500 in home heating oil to heat a 2700 sq ft home. I started reading here a few weeks ago, and today I ordered a Vermont Castings Defiant 2 and 1 stove. It will be installed in three to four weeks. My intention is to try to run it as close to 24/7 as possible and knock a chunk off that oil bill.

Here is the problem, first, I don't have any wood yet and after everything I've read here I am a little scared to order it. Since I wouldn't know good wood from bad wood, I don't know the difference between a face cord and a cord, I don't know pine from oak etc.

So I have a lot to learn. Until I do, how or where can I buy wood without getting screwed. I've seen all sorts of prices, from all sorts of places. The prices range from about $150 to $300 a cord. Some is called seasoned, some semi-seasoned. They all say hardwood, but how would a novice know?

How do I know who to trust, how much to order and if I get what I order?

Is it too late this season to get wood that I will be able to burn efficiently? Souls I use bio-blocks or similar this year?

I welcome any suggestions.

Ed
 
EddieB said:
First, I'd like to thank so many of you here for your insight and guidance that I found reading these forums. I couldn't
take the high cost of home heating oil one more winter. Last year we spent about $4500 in home heating oil to heat a 2700 sq ft home. I started reading here a few weeks ago, and today I ordered a Vermont Castings Defiant 2 and 1 stove. It will be installed in three to four weeks. My intention is to try to run it as close to 24/7 as possible and knock a chunk off that oil bill.

Here is the problem, first, I don't have any wood yet and after everything I've read here I am a little scared to order it. Since I wouldn't know good wood from bad wood, I don't know the difference between a face cord and a cord, I don't know pine from oak etc.

So I have a lot to learn. Until I do, how or where can I buy wood without getting screwed. I've seen all sorts of prices, from all sorts of places. The prices range from about $150 to $300 a cord. Some is called seasoned, some semi-seasoned. They all say hardwood, but how would a novice know?

How do I know who to trust, how much to order and if I get what I order?

Is it too late this season to get wood that I will be able to burn efficiently? Souls I use bio-blocks or similar this year?

I welcome any suggestions.

Ed
Click to expand...

It will be very difficult for you to get good wood for this season. Bio-blocks are a good idea. You might get lucky by focusing on
on anyone offering "seasoned wood" that was split last year.

You could get a moisture meter to check fresh splits of any wood that is claimed to be seasoned. You can ask when the wood was split,
but you shouldn't count on honesty. You could order species that dry faster, avoiding oak and hickory to be burned for this season. And you
could buy unseasoned wood for 2012-2013 so you'll be ready for next year.

When fighting with unseasoned wood for this year, you can mix it with dry pallets or other non-treated lumber. You can clean your chimney more
regularly to fight accumulation of creosote that comes with unseasoned wood.

Good luck, and welcome to the forum.
 
You'd also be better off finding a wood supplier who has a location where you can visit, to look over what they want to sell you, ahead of time. If you take whatever you buy with you, you know for sure how much you're getting. Sellers seem to vary in what they call a cord of wood. The first and only time I bought firewood, I was shorted a third of a cord, and never did get it fixed.

As for what sort of wood you're buying, that can be tough to know in the beginning, both the type of wood, and whether its dry. Is there anyone you know who burns wood, who could go with you?
 
It can be a little tough to learn to idenitfy well seasoned wood, but measuring a cord is easy. A cord is 128 cubic feet of tightly stacked wood. You can calculate the cubic feet (volume) of anything using that geometry you learned in seventh grade and forgot before 8th grade had started. The volume of a rectangular stack is calculated as length x width x height of the stack (all measurements in feet). The volume of any other shape resembling a rectangle can be found the same way (length x width x height). The volume of a truckload, for example, can be calculated as the width of the truck bed x the length of the truck bed x the approximate or average depth of the pile in the truck bed. Take the volume of any stack and divide by 128 cubic feet to obtain the number of cords of wood. For example, if you find a stack 10 ft long, 4 ft wide, and 5 ft high that is 10x4x5 = 200 cubic feet. 200/128 = 1.56 cords.

Keep in mind that a cord should be measured when tightly stacked. I think most stacks, unless they are obviously stacked really loose, will be more or less 'tightly stacked' so you can just measure the volume and know how many cords. However, a heap or pile of wood is not tightly stacked. I'd assume a pile of wood contains about 2/3 as much wood as a tight stack would (maybe some of the others on this forum can help me on this ratio). So, if you have a pile of wood multiply the volume by 0.67 and then convert to number of cords.

Wood identification takes some learning, but you should be able to identify pine, spruce, or most other 'softwoods' based on smell - pine smells like pine-sol. Spruce, fir, etc. also smell similar.
 
dave11 said:
You'd also be better off finding a wood supplier who has a location where you can visit, to look over what they want to sell you, ahead of time. If you take whatever you buy with you, you know for sure how much you're getting. Sellers seem to vary in what they call a cord of wood. The first and only time I bought firewood, I was shorted a third of a cord, and never did get it fixed.

As for what sort of wood you're buying, that can be tough to know in the beginning, both the type of wood, and whether its dry. Is there anyone you know who burns wood, who could go with you?
Click to expand...

Anybody on here live on LI that could go and help him check out wood supplies?

I agree that it would be best to go to the location to check it out first rather than have a phone conversation and then have a couple cords of wood dumped in your driveway just to find out that it was cut this summer. Tell them your situation and that you want their oldest wood. Chances are that even their oldest is in a huge pile and not stacked where the wind has a chance to do its thing.

Do a search on seasoned wood here and you will get some ideas of what it should look like.

Start here: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/4655/. This is a good thread to give you some idea of what to look for anyway.

Hate to be a downer but try not to get discouraged by your first years experience. You are in for some trying times with a new stove and trying to get decent wood this time of year.

+5 or so on the suggestion to get wood now for next year.

Good luck, welcome and keep us updated with pics if possible.
 
For the first year's scrounging, I would highly recommend a moisture meter. You may end up trying to gather wood from every nook and cranny out there and this will help you determine what is actually burnable this year. Plus, this will give you a great education about identifying seasoned wood and learning what folks call 'seasoned' in the first place. Search here on the forums for 'Moisture Meter' for all the details. Many folks don't use'em...mostly because they don't have too. That's one of the luxuries you will enjoy when you have lots of wood that has been sitting for a long time.
 
Welcome to the forum Eddie.


It seems just a few days ago someone posted that he found an honest wood seller on Long Island and his prices were not bad. Does anyone remember this post? If so, let's help Eddie with this one.
 
Eddie, I've been in your same position for different reasons (didn't heat with oil but had an antiquated heat pump that drank electricity) and climbed the steep learning curve too.

I learned:
1) generally, wood sellers lie. That, or they are all VERY bad at math.
2) you may not plan on scrounging, but you will. Get over it. Storms can be your friend.
3) find a seller who will let you see the wood before delivery.
4) moisture meter is a valuable investment. For under $20, you can check whether the guys wood is "seasoned" or not- see #1.
5) Having a working chainsaw and a trailer/truck will be helpful- see #2.
6) When you find a seller that fits #3, treat that person like your wife treats her hairdresser- that's an important relationship. You'll start getting calls like, "I just got a job clearing a building lot- you got some room?"
7) prepare to negotiate- a Ford F150 does not hold a cord of wood under any circumstances; see #1.
8) get buy-in from the SO before attacking 1-7. That way you may come home from work to have her say "Roy called- something about a building lot. Is hickory good? He'll be here tomorrow." (true story)

Whereabouts on LI are you? I grew up in Malverne & Garden City.
 
In you're situation it might be Better to place you're own add requesting to buy a seasoned cord for a fair price from a fellow wood burner, explaining your predicament. If I read your add in my area I would probably try and help you out for a fair price as many on this site would who are ahead in their own wood supply. Just a thought, good luck.
 
I think there was also a thread recently about where to buy Bio-bricks on LI. Get a cord (or 2) of the best seasoned wood you can find and a ton of Bio-bricks or equivalent. Burn them mixed (using the dryest wood first) and you should be fine.
 
JotulOwner said:
drewsome said:
I�ve been loving all the great information on these posts, and have decided to get a Jotul 550 Rockland insert. It will be installed in about 2 weeks. Everyone talks about how critical it is to have seasoned, dry wood. Some say it should seasoned a full 2 years. But I have no wood at all. So how does a newbie begin? I don�t wait until 2012 to light my first fire!! I live on Long Island�. does anyone know where to BUY dry seasoned wood? What�s a newbie to do??
Click to expand...

I would try Jim's Firewood. He is in Huntington and advertises on Craigslist all the time. He operates out of his home where he stacks the wood on pallets and invites anyone to test it with a meter. Go check it out. You have nothing to lose.
Click to expand...

Pulled this gem out of the second link that pen posted. (just in case it got by you)
Info is a year old but sound like this is your guy if you can find him. Good luck. If you are going to test it with a meter, be sure to 'split the split' so to speak so you can test the inside.
 
If you intend to burn 24/7 you'll need a substantial amount of wood. I'd say atleast 2 cords to start probably more.
Be prepared to become a wood scrounge. there's no shame in picking up wood off the side of the road, or stoping at house that is having tree cut down, pallets are made from too.
Being your in LI I'd say your best bet if you plan on getting your own wood in the future would be to contact tree service companies in the area and ask if they sell or will drop off wood at your house.
Seeing you don't know the difference between hard/soft woods I'll guess you don't own a chainsaw probably should be the first "investment" you make in wood gathering tools.
Depending on you vehicle situation, an old truck is great but inspections/tags/insurance can make them financially couterproductive, a trailer would be good second investment provided there's a family vehicle capable of pulling it.
 
Wow,

Thanks so much to all of you for the quick replies.

I have a friend who owns a tree company, I'll have to give him a call. I guess a chainsaw and a splitter are in my future.

Thanks for the info on the guy in Huntington, I'm going to look for him too.

My goal for now is to get two cords, seasoned (if I can get actual seasoned wood) and a ton of bio-bricks. Im also going to order two cords of cheaper non seasoned wood. In addition to that, I'll start getting wood from my tree friend (although he's close to wrapping up the season) He starts up again in March. I guess I can start splitting and stacking that in March with the hope of using it in 2012-13.

I still have so many questions.....

Would wood cut in March be ready for the following winter? Or should I plan to use it the winter after?

What kind of a chain saw, splitter do I need to buy?

I'm I going to need a shed of some sorts to store this wood, or is simply covering it in the back yard going to be OK?

It's all been a great learning experience. I'm very grateful to all of you for you advice. I'm sure once my stove is installed I'll have lots of more questions.

I'm a photographer by trade, so I'll surely post pictures once it's installed. I'm not doing any of the install myself (way above my pay grade)

I'm really looking forward to not giving $4000 to the oil man this year, thanks to all of you, that just might be possible.

Eddie
 
I don't think anyone addressed the difference between a Face cord and a cord. On this forum MOST of us don't use the term Face cord. It's a bastard definition and not a legal one. It generally means about one third of a cord. Say... a stack eight feet long and four feet high but only one row of splits measuring 16 inches. That would be exactly one third of a legal cord. Some people think it can mean 8x4 x one row of any length splits. But 12 inch splits is 1/4 cord.

Talk in terms of cords or fractions thereof, not in Face cords or ricks or some other colloquial terminology. It's a deceptive term. the thing you really have to watch for is some guy claiming he is selling you a Cord, when it's actually 1/3 of a cord (hoping you won't know the difference.) Like saying my pickup truck gets 60 miles to the Face Gallon. A full sized pickup truck filled to the top with WELL STACKED splits will be close to a 1/3 cord. Much less,though, if the wood is tossed loosely into the bed of the truck.

You're going to be very disappointed with the whole experience if you try to burn green wood in your virgin year of burning. There is enough of a learning curve already without having bad fuel. I would advise buying as much bio wood as you can store to get you through this winter. AND buy as much wood as you can store to put away for next winter. Get this done asap. And that wood needs to be split or it won't dry.

AND, if you can possibly store even more wood, start building up for the winter of 2013-2014. Oak would be great for this as it really needs two years to dry but burns fantastic when it's well seasoned. So, I'm talking about a pretty good investment. One years worth of bio-blocks and two years worth of wood. But all three years worth of fuel is going to be a heck of a lot less than one year's worth of heating oil.

Welcome to the Forum. Stick around and learn. Everything, I mean EVERYTHING I know about wood burning, stove operation, scrounging for wood, operating chain saws, etc, came from this website.
 
EddieB said:
Would wood cut in March be ready for the following winter? Or should I plan to use it the winter after?

What kind of a chain saw, splitter do I need to buy?

I'm I going to need a shed of some sorts to store this wood, or is simply covering it in the back yard going to be OK?
Click to expand...

Even here, these questions are gasoline on the campfire... :)

Cutting in March? I'm gonna say depends on species- oak? No way. Locust? Maybe. I bought my '11-'12 supply last April, and am splitting/stacking '12-'13 cherry and locust as we speak.

Chainsaw? One you know how to use safely and maintain properly. Could be a $99 Homelite from Home Cheapo, a $500 Stihl from a dealer, or a family member's or neighbors for free. Each has features and benefits... you might say the same about cameras.

Splitter? Ditto. I have a $300 electric Homelite from HD. Does the job for me. My neighbor has a 20-ton home-built special... works for him. We both also have $25 splitting mauls that are effective for Neanderthal technology.

Shed? Here comes the fun.
Covering wood? Even better.
 
EddieB said:
Wow,

My goal for now is to get two cords, seasoned (if I can get actual seasoned wood) and a ton of bio-bricks. Im also going to order two cords of cheaper non seasoned wood. In addition to that, I'll start getting wood from my tree friend (although he's close to wrapping up the season) He starts up again in March. I guess I can start splitting and stacking that in March with the hope of using it in 2012-13.

In your original post you said you'd be burning 24/7. Do you think two cords a year is going to be nearly enough? I burn that much down here in Texas! And that is FAR from burning 24/7.

I still have so many questions.....

Would wood cut in March be ready for the following winter? Or should I plan to use it the winter after?

Fresh cut green wood might barely be ready by next fall IF it is split and stacked where it is exposed to a lot of wind and sun. Oak definitely needs longer than that. Allow oak two years at least.

What kind of a chain saw, splitter do I need to buy?

Highly recommend a Stihl. Lots of different models to fit your budget. If you're going to be scrounging and cutting up already downed wood, one of the lower end models will probably work for you. MS 180, 192, 211. Check out this webpage.
http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/occasional.html Stihl will give you long term service. Others may also fit your needs.

As far as a splitter.... if you're able to do it by hand (great exercise!) check out a Fisker's Super Splitter or one of the other Fiskers products. For hydraulic splitting, it really depends on how much you're going to be doing. For small needs a lot of people use a 5 to 7 ton electric splitter that you can get for $250 up to $500. A really good Huskee 22 ton splitter can be found at Tractor Supply for about $1100.
Wait until the Spring and you'll find some good sales at the stores and even better deals on used ones.

Am I going to need a shed of some sorts to store this wood, or is simply covering it in the back yard going to be OK?

I would think just top covering it would fit your needs. Corrugated metal roofing, for example. Anything that won't fly away and that will keep your snow off. Cover only what you will be using in the upcoming few weeks. You'll want to leave it exposed as much as possible to let it keep drying for as long as possible. Tarps are generally not a good idea. it's like keeping the wood in a baggie.
Curious about how much room you have on your property...
Click to expand...
 
EddieB said:
I still have so many questions.....

Would wood cut in March be ready for the following winter? Or should I plan to use it the winter after?

That depends upon what type of wood you get. Cut in March I'd want white ash or soft maple. Popple would be okay too but that would be for burning during spring and fall or daytime in winter; definitely not a night wood.

What kind of a chain saw, splitter do I need to buy?

That depends upon what size trees you will have to cut. For example, most of our trees are 30" or less and I find that the Stihl Farm Boss 290 with a 16" bar will do all I need done. One could also put a longer bar on it. For splitter, you might get by splitting by hand but if you need hydraulics, the Huskee 22 ton is hard to beat for price and is a good splitter. It is almost like our old MTD which is over 20 years old now and has split 200 cord or more and has been trouble free. Don't get hung up on tonnage or cycle times when it comes to buying splitters. You don't need the big tonnage (ours is 20 ton) and cycle time is meaningless as you rarely will use the entire cycle. Besides, this is for home use and not commercial.

I'm I going to need a shed of some sorts to store this wood, or is simply covering it in the back yard going to be OK?

Why not just stack it in the back yard for now. You can always build a shed later. But do stack it so the wood is off the ground a few inches. You need quick drying so don't stack really tight and stack in single rows. Stack it where it will get the most wind. Sun is good but wind is better. We leave the wood uncovered the first summer and fall but before the snow flies we cover the top of the wood pile. It is important to cover only the top and never the sides. Something to hard cover the top of the stacks is nice rather than tarps.
Click to expand...

Eddie, this is how we stack. I cut saplings in the woods to stack the wood on but you could also use something like landscape timbers or RR ties. Some like pallets; I do not like them at all. You can also see by the picture that we cover the wood using old galvanized roofing. We just throw some ugly pieces on top to hold down the roofing.

Woodfrom2009.jpg
 
Cherry is another type of wood that is very dry in 6 months, I cut some green and had it split and stacked by April 1st and have been starting fires with it from scratch.
 
Kenster said:
As far as a splitter.... if you're able to do it by hand (great exercise!) check out a Fisker's Super Splitter or one of the other Fiskers products. For hydraulic splitting, it really depends on how much you're going to be doing. For small needs a lot of people use a 5 to 7 ton electric splitter that you can get for $250 up to $500. A really good Huskee 22 ton splitter can be found at Tractor Supply for about $1100.
Wait until the Spring and you'll find some good sales at the stores and even better deals on used ones. [/b]
Click to expand...
[/quote]

You've seemed to have asked some of the 5 or 6 most contested questions on this whole site (to cover / not to cover stacks, what chainsaw is the best, how long does wood need to dry properly...), so I think you might be getting a lot of responses in the long run!

For my 2 cents worth, if you are interested in splitting by hand (which is fantastic exercise), I can't recommend one of the "Mega Mauls" enough. They're 12-15 pounds, never get stuck, and the steel handle lasts pretty much forever (as opposed to the wood or fiberglass ones, that you'll be lucky to have last a month if this is your first time splitting by hand; overswinging is the death of those things). You'll still want to get a smaller maul too (I use an 8lb) since 15 pounds is overkill for a lot of smaller rounds, but I love my Mega Maul -- I haven't used a wedge in a long time!

If you're interested:

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=15780 (this is the one I use)
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=74818 (I haven't used this one, but it's the same idea and a little cheaper)
 
Eddie, where on the island do you live?
 
I've never bought firewood but from the "dealers" I know, I think you are going to be very screwed if you don't develop a relationship and take along someone who knows species and amounts and MC.

You just finished paying off last year's oil, now you bought a stove. Don't keep buying stuff. Either accept the fact you are going to have to buy your wood, or if you have a place to scrounge, refuse to buy wood and get the fewest $ of toys you NEED. I cannot recommend going and buying a splitter when you don't even know what your wood will be yet. And ditto on the suggestion of a Monster Maul. Cheap and very effective. There are some species that they are NOT effective on . . . beating your brains out for a while will teach you to be able to identify wood.

Welcome to the insanity!!
 
You dont know enough to even answer your question. My first choice in your case would be to go and check out dealers. They should have some stack up. Yellow pages under tree services would be a good one. They have already been paid once to move it and normally will be the fairest.
Take a tape measure with you and ask how much it would be derived and stack. Ask the question on moisture content and what wood it is. Most will want your repeat business and inform you. Craiglist would be the last place to look.
 
I had some luck in my first year by asking other local burners who they bought from. Got some off a burner who wanted to sell some excess, then worked through the other sellers buying a "face cord" (around 1/3rd cord) or a "truckload" (you get whatever they fit in whatever truck) from each of 3 guys. I explained to the most honest seller I found that I'd like the driest stuff he had AND was willing to pay extra for it. Bingo, a cord of 3 year seasoned OAK. If you strike-out you can always get bio-bricks.

The guy you know with the Tree Service just became your best friend. Treat him well. Once you figure out whether you'll be buying or scrounging your wood in future and what size trees you'll be dealing with, THEN come on & ask about what saw. Hand splitting is cheap & good exercise. Grab a Fiskars splitting axe or a Maul.
Good luck & welcome.
 
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