Will an insert work in this fireplace, and if so, which one's are best?

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dvto2

Member
Nov 14, 2011
79
Northern CT
I am thinking I would like a wood burining insert for my fireplace. It is a 40 year old cast iron (I think) fireplace surrounded by brick and stone on an exterior wall. I am concerned about getting the pipe up the chimney as the damper opens in the front of the fireplace and while the opening is wide enough it is only about 6 inches deep (at least that's what it looked like the first time I measured it). The outer dimensions of the fireplace are 35" wide by 28.5 inches high. The back of the fireplace is narrower at about 27 inches wide and the back wall slopes towards the front as it goes up so that the back wall is about 17 inches from the front at the top of the fireplace; the bottom of the back wall is 24 inches deep.

Are there inserts that would work with this setup without having to rip out the damper, which I think would require taking out the whole fireplace, which I don't want to do. The fireplace is in a large open room of a combined Living and dining area with a cathedral (two story) ceiling on the upstairs of a raised ranch. The upstairs square footage, including two bedrooms and 1 1/2 baths is about 1600 square feet.
 
Post some photos of the fireplace & the damper area
 
Hogwildz said:
Post some photos of the fireplace & the damper area
Click to expand...

+1
 
dvto2 said:
I am thinking I would like a wood burining insert for my fireplace. It is a 40 year old cast iron (I think) fireplace surrounded by brick and stone on an exterior wall. I am concerned about getting the pipe up the chimney as the damper opens in the front of the fireplace and while the opening is wide enough it is only about 6 inches deep (at least that's what it looked like the first time I measured it). The outer dimensions of the fireplace are 35" wide by 28.5 inches high. The back of the fireplace is narrower at about 27 inches wide and the back wall slopes towards the front as it goes up so that the back wall is about 17 inches from the front at the top of the fireplace; the bottom of the back wall is 24 inches deep.

Are there inserts that would work with this setup without having to rip out the damper, which I think would require taking out the whole fireplace, which I don't want to do. The fireplace is in a large open room of a combined Living and dining area with a cathedral (two story) ceiling on the upstairs of a raised ranch. The upstairs square footage, including two bedrooms and 1 1/2 baths is about 1600 square feet.
Click to expand...

It's possible that you have "Superior Heatform" fireplace. It's made of 1/4 inch boiler plate steel, around which a masonry chimney is built. The idea was to make it easier for builders to fabricate the fireplace without requiring the services of a brick mason. Or you might have an old style "Heatilator."

In any case, it's likely that you will have to cut out the damper. You could use a cutting wheel (slow and messy), or a plasma torch (very fast) to make the opening large enough to get a 6 inch insulated flex pipe down the chimney to connect to your insert. I hired a welder to do this job and it took him about an hour to compete the work. Actually I had to bring him back a second time to enlarge the opening. My SS flex pipe wasn't as flexible as I thought the word implied. The bottom line is that you don't have to remove the fireplace to get rid of the damper. Of course when you remove the damper, you can't use the fireplace as a "fireplace" any more.

Good luck with your install.
 
Here's the fireplace.
 

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Yea, I did not show them in the first picture but there are two vents that allow heated air to come out and several intake vents on the floor and the side of the hearth.
 

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Heatform. Cut out the damper. If you search my posts, I have a post showing how I cut mine out.
A PE Summit or similar size will fit in there.
 
What are the dimensions of the damper opening?
You'll need to get a 6" diameter SS liner thru there...
If your dimensions are bigger than 6x6, you're good to go.
 
Is this an exterior or interior chimney?

Welcome to the forums :)
 
Looking at the damper more closely I would say there is about 6 3/4 inches when fully opened. It would need flexible stove pipe to snake through the front end of the fireplace and then back to the chimney.

There is actually a PE dealer about 2 1/5 miles from me - local guy in a small store. He quoted me about $2000 for a PE Super insert (plain black trim) and $1100 for installation, including cutting the flue if needed and pipe. Is that reasonable? It seemed a little high for installation, but I don't know how much stove pipe costs. I think he plans on flexible pipe the whole way up, at least that's what he showed me.
 
That sounds like a very reasonable rate, especially at this time of year. Be sure his estimate if for an insulated liner.
 
Your pics and description sounds like a heatalator? I had one and my insert fit ok. Its a Regency 3100. Make sure your quote is with a insulated liner and some kind of block off plate. I just paid $1400 more to have my liner insulated and some crown work that the original installer didn't do.
 
I bumped into the guy in Starbucks and he said "no, the pipe is uninsulated" because with the small diameter (6") it heats up very fast and insulation is not needed. So how important is insulted pipe?
 
Required for an exterior chimney I think. Also, don't let them install without a thorough chimney cleaning first.

My guess is that he is trying to offer a competitive bid, which his is. However, if they are qualified, they should be recommending the insulated liner, chimney cleaning, and if this were my insert I would also want a damper-sealing block off plate or at least a generous stuffing at the damper with Roxul or kaowool. Those prices should be broken out as options from the core bid. Insulation will add about $150 which is cheap insurance. It will help the stove start and operate safer, better and cleaner.

If he balks, beware of corner cutting with a cheap liner. Another option is to just buy the stove from them and have the liner professionally installed by a certified chimney sweep.

www.csia.org
 
dvto2 said:
I bumped into the guy in Starbucks and he said "no, the pipe is uninsulated" because with the small diameter (6") it heats up very fast and insulation is not needed. So how important is insulted pipe?
Click to expand...
I was told that the insulation is for a safety thing. If you have plenty of clearance between your liner and the chimney, I guess your ok. My sweep said it was too close and he suggested the insulation and I found out the liner was a very cheap thin one from the first installer.
 
The gauge of the liner, brand and construction (seam welding, interior smoothness, type of stainless steel) are probably the best guidance. Duraliner, FlexKing and MagnaFlex are some common brands.

Basic info:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/reline_masonry_chimney/

Excellent article on why a liner:
http://www.woodheat.org/attachments/article/29/bplinerusers.pdf

Here's a site with several articles on liner construction and differences:
http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/articles-2/chimney-liner-articles/
 
"It is certainly not a job for a handyman."

PTTHHHHHHHPPBBBBBBB!
 
LOL. :lol: I think what they mean is that it's not a job for a handyman that thinks he knows everything and just installs it without regard to safety issues like cleaning the flue first, checking for cracked tiles, etc.. For folks that are reasonably competent and learn how to do a task well, before jumping into it, this is something the homeowner can handle. We have lots of examples. But we also have seen plenty of handyman jobs here that make the hairs rise on your head. This is definitely an area where too little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing.
 
I hear you, and I don't think I want to tackle this alone. On the other hand, I see so many bad reviews of dealers in my area, CT, in fact I haven't seen one dealer with uniformly good reviews, that I feel like I have to learn as I can to make the best choices. The guy down the road seems pretty good and as he said, I'm likely to run into him in town, which I already did. However, he told me I didn't need an insulated liner, so it pays to be an informed consumer. Thanks a bunch for all your input.

One more thing, I do have chimney brushes and did see and brush off some light creosote from my fireplace, which now looks pretty clean to me. My coal chimney, which I really haven't used in 10 years, looked clean as a whistle except for a couple of spider webs. Is looking clean generally clean enough?
 
For what it's worth, I have an uninsulated liner in an exterior brick chimney with a clay tile flue and it works fine. It was installed before I discovered this site and learned about insulated liners. No doubt I would get a few more btu's from an insulated liner and the stove would heat up a bit quicker, but for a weekend and evening burner like myself, it hasn't been an issue. My stove is cruising right now quite happily at at 550 degrees and putting out plenty of heat. I wonder if you could even get an isulated liner through that damper.
 
dvto2 said:
Looking at the damper more closely I would say there is about 6 3/4 inches when fully opened. It would need flexible stove pipe to snake through the front end of the fireplace and then back to the chimney.

There is actually a PE dealer about 2 1/5 miles from me - local guy in a small store. He quoted me about $2000 for a PE Super insert (plain black trim) and $1100 for installation, including cutting the flue if needed and pipe. Is that reasonable? It seemed a little high for installation, but I don't know how much stove pipe costs. I think he plans on flexible pipe the whole way up, at least that's what he showed me.
Click to expand...

I paid $2,100.00 for my Summit, so $2,000.00 for the Super seems a bit steep to me. If he is relining the chimney from insert to top with top plate, cap and cutting out the damper if needed, not a bad price on the install.
 
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