I just had the worst scare i have had in a long time

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oldmountvernon

Minister of Fire
Oct 27, 2011
604
SE Mass
I was out for the evening, just got home. Check the stove its auto-cleaning its 72 downstairs all good. upstairs 68 fine. I sit down in my office upstairs checking emails all of a sudden i hear my vent rumble/start-up my air handler kicked on and blowing air. I think wtf i have the heat shut off. I run to the stat sure enough its off. Why is the air handler on! I panic run downstairs open the slider and put a flashlight on the 2 ac units outside sure enough i hear it running and see what appears to be SMOKE billowing up above it! I run downstairs and shut the breaker off on the air handlers. Run back upstairs and outside to meet my wife coming from outside. she says ITS THE DRYER VENT! the vent is right on the side of the units

So im guessing, i have to find out for sure there is a protection feature in the attic attached to the pipe that kicks it on to prevent it from freezing ( im almost positive about this now that i think about it ) it must turn on to keep the water flowing so it don't freeze

ironically its 31 degrees outside, i just got home and didn't even notice it was that cold out

the access to the attic is in my kids closet and wouldn't you know it hes scared of the closet ( its a big walk in ) and keeps the door closed lol
 
Good Gawd! WTF did you do?
 
johnnycomelately said:
Good Gawd! WTF did you do?

nothing! well i opened his closet door hopefully a little heat escapes the attic access and i also burnt some HHO and let the furnace run for a bit
 
Do you have water lines in your attic? I think it is common for the attic to be below freezing in the winter.
 
yes the air handler is up there and having hydro forced air , water lines are present. So its protection like that thermguard thing i have seen here to circulate water in pipes every so often i guess
 
oldmountvernon said:
yes the air handler is up there and having hydro forced air , water lines are present. So its protection like that thermguard thing i have seen here to circulate water in pipes every so often i guess

Nice to have an automatic circulation system. If others don't check out the ThermGuard. It is at www.bearmountaindesign.com

ThermGuard will keep your pipes from freezing. Search for it in the hearth.com forum and read the reviews.

John
 
oldmountvernon said:
yes the air handler is up there and having hydro forced air , water lines are present. So its protection like that thermguard thing i have seen here to circulate water in pipes every so often i guess

Do you have geothermal heating?
 
rickwai said:
oldmountvernon said:
yes the air handler is up there and having hydro forced air , water lines are present. So its protection like that thermguard thing i have seen here to circulate water in pipes every so often i guess

Do you have geothermal heating?

no
 
boiler in the lower level sending heat up to the attic to heat exchanger?
 
rickwai said:
boiler in the lower level sending heat up to the attic to heat exchanger?

need to find out exactly what happens/happened. I was drawing hot water at the time so dont know if furnace was running just for hot water or that also. But what i think happens is when the pipe gets cold it alerts the pumps to start pumping water, since moving water wont freeze in the pipes
 
bridgerman said:
oldmountvernon said:
yes the air handler is up there and having hydro forced air , water lines are present. So its protection like that thermguard thing i have seen here to circulate water in pipes every so often i guess

Nice to have an automatic circulation system. If others don't check out the ThermGuard. It is at www.bearmountaindesign.com

ThermGuard will keep your pipes from freezing. Search for it in the hearth.com forum and read the reviews.

John

I have hydro forced air also.. Which therm gard would I get?? There is a unit in the attic for the second floor in which hot water runs through it to heat the air. First floor unit is in the basement
 
cuznvin said:
bridgerman said:
oldmountvernon said:
yes the air handler is up there and having hydro forced air , water lines are present. So its protection like that thermguard thing i have seen here to circulate water in pipes every so often i guess

Nice to have an automatic circulation system. If others don't check out the ThermGuard. It is at www.bearmountaindesign.com

ThermGuard will keep your pipes from freezing. Search for it in the hearth.com forum and read the reviews.

John

I have hydro forced air also.. Which therm gard would I get?? There is a unit in the attic for the second floor in which hot water runs through it to heat the air. First floor unit is in the basement

The standard ThermGuard works for all systems it just depends how you hook it up. In your system, you would hook it between the red and white wires. Then you could program it to turn on your hydro forced-air for a couple of minutes every 3 hours. Your water would circulate and the pipes wouldn't freeze.

Thermguard could also be connected between the red and green wire. This would activate your fan periodically and use the furnace fan to circulate warm air throughout the house and not have the heat trapped in the room with the stove.

In your case, the first option would be best to keep the pipes from freezing in the attic.

In any event, there is only one model of ThermGuard.

Cheers,
John
 
bridgerman said:
cuznvin said:
bridgerman said:
oldmountvernon said:
yes the air handler is up there and having hydro forced air , water lines are present. So its protection like that thermguard thing i have seen here to circulate water in pipes every so often i guess

Nice to have an automatic circulation system. If others don't check out the ThermGuard. It is at www.bearmountaindesign.com

ThermGuard will keep your pipes from freezing. Search for it in the hearth.com forum and read the reviews.

John

I have hydro forced air also.. Which therm gard would I get?? There is a unit in the attic for the second floor in which hot water runs through it to heat the air. First floor unit is in the basement

The standard ThermGuard works for all systems it just depends how you hook it up. In your system, you would hook it between the red and white wires. Then you could program it to turn on your hydro forced-air for a couple of minutes every 3 hours. Your water would circulate and the pipes wouldn't freeze.

Thermguard could also be connected between the red and green wire. This would activate your fan periodically and use the furnace fan to circulate warm air throughout the house and not have the heat trapped in the room with the stove.

In your case, the first option would be best to keep the pipes from freezing in the attic.

In any event, there is only one model of ThermGuard.

Cheers,
John

Thanks.. Is there a way to have it do both? I wanted to use the furnace fan to circulate the warm air coming up from downstairs into the bedroom since we keep the door shut all the time, but also sont want the pipes in the attic to freeze.
 
I have hydro forced air also.. Which therm gard would I get?? There is a unit in the attic for the second floor in which hot water runs through it to heat the air. First floor unit is in the basement[/quote]

The standard ThermGuard works for all systems it just depends how you hook it up. In your system, you would hook it between the red and white wires. Then you could program it to turn on your hydro forced-air for a couple of minutes every 3 hours. Your water would circulate and the pipes wouldn't freeze.

Thermguard could also be connected between the red and green wire. This would activate your fan periodically and use the furnace fan to circulate warm air throughout the house and not have the heat trapped in the room with the stove.

In your case, the first option would be best to keep the pipes from freezing in the attic.

In any event, there is only one model of ThermGuard.

Cheers,
John[/quote]

Thanks.. Is there a way to have it do both? I wanted to use the furnace fan to circulate the warm air coming up from downstairs into the bedroom since we keep the door shut all the time, but also sont want the pipes in the attic to freeze.[/quote]

That is an interesting question. The problem is that they are on two different cycles. The hot water needs circulated at a different schedule. For instance 3 minutes every couple of hours. The fan circulation would be for 10 minutes every half hour for example. Unfortunately, the ThermGuard can only be programmed with one schedule. There is a solution though. You would need two ThermGuards. One controlling the fan and the other controlling the boiler. I don't know any other way to accommodate the two different schedules. If you wanted this kind of connection, please let me know so I can make one set of wires longer to fit one unit under the other.

Cheers,
John
 
How does the Thermguard get power?

I was thinking of just hooking one onto my zone valve controller (Taco ZVC 404).

Tap into the side that my 4 T stats go into. The T Stats are all 2 wire, battery powered.

Would just need one unit for my whole house.

Kick the everything on for 5 mins every 24 hours just to run the water through everything.
 
NATE379 said:
How does the Thermguard get power?

I was thinking of just hooking one onto my zone valve controller (Taco ZVC 404).

Tap into the side that my 4 T stats go into. The T Stats are all 2 wire, battery powered.

Would just need one unit for my whole house.

Kick the everything on for 5 mins every 24 hours just to run the water through everything.


Hi Nate,

I looked at the documentation for the ZVC 404 and don't see the connection that you are thinking will work. I see the Tstat connections, but there are no connections that will activate all the zone valves in parallel. Can you point it out to me? There have been a few discussions on this topic, but they always involve a multi pole relay that connects across each of the tstat connections. You need to do this so each tstat will work independently when ThermGuard is not calling for heat.

John
 
I have read that glycol reduces the heat transfer in the system, making it less efficient. 'Course, frozen pipes are even more inefficient!
 
I would have to see or know how the Thermguard gets power to figure out if it would work or not.

My T Stats, when they call for heat just makes a connection of the red and white wire. The controller sees ok zone 1 needs heat, so it determines if the boiler needs to fire or if the water is hot enough and just turns the pumps on.

bridgerman said:
NATE379 said:
How does the Thermguard get power?

I was thinking of just hooking one onto my zone valve controller (Taco ZVC 404).

Tap into the side that my 4 T stats go into. The T Stats are all 2 wire, battery powered.

Would just need one unit for my whole house.

Kick the everything on for 5 mins every 24 hours just to run the water through everything.


Hi Nate,

I looked at the documentation for the ZVC 404 and don't see the connection that you are thinking will work. I see the Tstat connections, but there are no connections that will activate all the zone valves in parallel. Can you point it out to me? There have been a few discussions on this topic, but they always involve a multi pole relay that connects across each of the tstat connections. You need to do this so each tstat will work independently when ThermGuard is not calling for heat.

John
 
My zones work a little differently. A thermostat calls for heat, and its zone valve opens. When it's open, it makes a switch that fires up the furnace and the furnace control runs the furnace. I have 3 zones and one pump, so that works. If I had 3 pumps, it would have to work differently.
I think I would need to use a 3 pole relay to make it work. They're cheap enough, will plug into a relay socket, easy to wire. If the ThermGuard had a multipole relay built in, that would be great!
 
NATE379 said:
I would have to see or know how the Thermguard gets power to figure out if it would work or not.

My T Stats, when they call for heat just makes a connection of the red and white wire. The controller sees ok zone 1 needs heat, so it determines if the boiler needs to fire or if the water is hot enough and just turns the pumps on.

bridgerman said:
NATE379 said:
How does the Thermguard get power?

I was thinking of just hooking one onto my zone valve controller (Taco ZVC 404).

Tap into the side that my 4 T stats go into. The T Stats are all 2 wire, battery powered.

Would just need one unit for my whole house.

Kick the everything on for 5 mins every 24 hours just to run the water through everything.


Hi Nate,

I looked at the documentation for the ZVC 404 and don't see the connection that you are thinking will work. I see the Tstat connections, but there are no connections that will activate all the zone valves in parallel. Can you point it out to me? There have been a few discussions on this topic, but they always involve a multi pole relay that connects across each of the tstat connections. You need to do this so each tstat will work independently when ThermGuard is not calling for heat.

John

Hi Nate,

ThermGuard pulls a small amount of current from the red and white wires when it is not calling for heat. The magic happens when ThermGuard calls for heat. It shorts the red and white wires together but still draws enough power to keep running. To the zone controller, it looks just like the T-Stat is calling for heat. Your system will work just the way it is supposed to work. If the boiler is already up to steam, it will just turn on the pump. If not, it will fire the boiler with the pump.

If you need more detail, let me know. I have a patent on the way this works. There is nothing else like it in the world.

John
 
heat seeker said:
My zones work a little differently. A thermostat calls for heat, and its zone valve opens. When it's open, it makes a switch that fires up the furnace and the furnace control runs the furnace. I have 3 zones and one pump, so that works. If I had 3 pumps, it would have to work differently.
I think I would need to use a 3 pole relay to make it work. They're cheap enough, will plug into a relay socket, easy to wire. If the ThermGuard had a multipole relay built in, that would be great!

Hi Heat Seeker,

I could wire something like this together, but I am not sure how big the market would be to put the design through a complete engineering cycle to crank them out in volume. I would be happy to make one, but I have attached a drawing if you would like to do it yourself.

Cheers,
John
 

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Well, that's excellent! Sort of what I had in mind.

I know, changing your engineering would be a headache. I've used miniature relays that are the size of IC's that might fit in your enclosure, but I had ice cube type relays in mind. They're very sturdy, and would probably never wear out in this application.

I'm putting this on my "definitely need to do soon" list, since I am concerned about my heating pipes freezing in the bitter weather.
 
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