forrester model 280

Chopper said:

OK you guy have provided me with alot of great info.Let say the cheapest SOB on the face of the earth was going to buy a new stove? I think I've narrowed it down to either a vc or a jotul. Don't really know if I should get a "cat" or not. House is about 1300 sq ft.I live in the middle of Michigan so it's plenty cold.Any feedback would be great

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Well, the cheapest SOB would not buy a vc or jotul. Probably a Century or Englander....
Or, talk to a Travis dealer about the new $995 stove with full glass door and full size logs. You can probably get a century or englander for $700 or less.

Corie said:

Wouldn't matter, UL listings generally expire within 20 years.

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What does not mean? So the sheetrock, wiring and everything else in a house is no longer listed?

Webmaster said:

Corie said:

Wouldn't matter, UL listings generally expire within 20 years.

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What does not mean? So the sheetrock, wiring and everything else in a house is no longer listed?

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I never heard of the listing expiring, as long as the label is on the appliance I'm going to accept it.
Does UL come to you home and remove it listing after it expires?

Is my Older Model Stove listed?

If your stove is older than 20 years, it is a safe bet that it is either not listed or that the listing has expired.

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Directly from this website craig? The only reason i said it is because you said it first.

Here is some really low prices, not sure of quality, but definetly stay away from a cat stove. It is a "consumable" and will need to be replaced every few years.


http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTESearch?storeId=6970&N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=wood stove&Nty=1&D=wood stove&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial

For some reason the full link did not work, so type "wood stove" under the search feature when the link goes thru

Personally, if you feel confident with your skills and know how, I would install the one you have, paying attention to all safety rules to the letter.

OK, I just put my asbestos suit is on for making that statement, ready for the flames! Bring it on. KD

my flame thrower is accelerated with map I doubt your suit can stand the heat. Please do not recomend the Zolzang
death fire boxes from nothern tool. The reason the opriginal poster can not find the ul listing is, Ul had not started listing
stoves till 1979. Are you sugesting he install poluting beast unlisted stove? contrarty to all code and un insurable?

Yes, I'll admit I'm trying to stir the pot a little. The guy has a stove, it appears to be in good working order. It did not burn the house down that it came from originally. If he knows how to burns clean, then I don't see it burning any dirtier than a romantic fire from a standard fireplace in many homes in North America.

The guy is trying to save some money on his heat bill. I'm sure he does not want to burn his house down, and the decision is ultimately his. I just don't see how this thing is gonna explode, implode, meltdown, etc. if installed properly.

If this question was raised back when this stove was brand new (1978 I think was mentioned), what would the response be to his question be? Would it be considered a "bad stove" in 1978?

If the answer is "yes", then I stand corrected and withdraw my statement. You and many others have allot more knowledge about this than I will ever have. KD

If you have noticed people selling stoves on Ebay re-paint then and they look new. This paint covers up th whitish evidence of overfiring. We are talking about a 30 year old stove, that may not be gasketed, very hard to control overfiring probably not baffeled,, so no chance for secondary cleaner burns. And we do not know his economic situation. We do not know his experience as a wood burner, able to reconise the shot commings of the ancient stove and correct burning practices.

And I would be very carefull about vouching safety when so little is known as mentioned above. Yes I could determine whether this stove is safe for use. I also could quickly lean how it opperate safely. One not familliar, My suggestion is to get a known working newer stove modern burning. Remember this stove is even unlisted, more doubt and questionability about it's quality

There is no pat answer. Some areas allow the installation of unlisted stoves, some don't. Some areas allow burning anytime, some don't. Some areas "grandfather" old installations that probably should be replaced. It's up to the local authority.

Now, for my opinion. I think it is fine to install and burn an unlisted stove if you know what you are doing. The problem is, how do we tell that the person installing and using the unlisted stove knows what he/she is doing? The only way to assure relative safety is to have the installation inspected by an expert and then maintained by an expert. At least until the user can himself/herself become an expert with that system. In most cases, local ordinances are restricting the installation and operation of unlisted stoves. This makes sense from a safety standpoint. Unfortunately, most local authorities lack the knowledge needed to make balanced decisions about what is and what isn't "safe" with respect to woodstoves. It is admitedly complicated and a relatively small concern in amongst all the other ordinaces and regulations surrounding community activities. I wish more attention was given to the chimneys being built. At least as much as is being given to unlisted stoves, which isn't much in some regions. The chimney is often not safe and especially risky with a wood stove, even more risky with an unlisted stove. In our area it is not uncommon to "approve" or "disapprove" of a particular model of stove yet completely ignore the chimney system to which the stove is being connected. I'll come in after the install has been "approved" and tell the cutomer it is unsafe and I end up being suspected of unethical sell tactics because the "authority" said it was okay.

In my opinion the safety of an instllation is relative and depends largely on the chimney system, clearances, floor and wall protection and the knowledge of the user. The knowledge of the user cannot be easily regulated. Even if you "test" the user they can easily meet the standards on a test and then do as they see fit in their own home. Not to mention that this would cause a general public outcry with accusations of restriction of freedom. Even the regulation of chimneys, clearances, and stoves is perceived by many as an invasion of personal freedom. My opinion is that personal freedom should not be restricted as long as it does not harm the community at large. The community has to decide what risk is involved in allowing the install and burning of an unlisted stove. Some communities beleive any wood stove burning is harmful to the community. Most communities take some middle ground.

We live in an area that is sparsely populated and a haven for independent personalities. Most towns do not restrict the installation of a wood stove and some towns do not even have a formal ordinance being enforced by a qualified inspector. NYS law reuires permits but there is no law prohibiting the install of an unlisted stove. Most towns will accept the NFPA 211 code for the installation of unlisted stoves. However, the trend is to restrict the install of unlisted stoves and we are seeing more and more resistance to continuing to use older unlisted and non-EPA stoves. In time we will have to upgrade to new technology. We will also have to find a way to help people who are in financial need who cannot simply throw away a perfectly good (although "unlisted") stove because the local law says so.

The EPA and the industry association (HPBA) have been doing some work in this area but it remains to be seen how it will be received nationwide and whether or not there will be a viable program that will assist those in need to upgrade to clean-burning stoves. In the meantime, we, as one of the local experts, continue to encourage those who can afford it to upgrade. And we work to find ways to help those who cannot afford it. We have worked with some local assistance programs to install new chimney systems even if the homeowner cannot afford to upgrade the stove. We update the clearances to NFPA 211 and install UL listed chimney systems. The homeowner gets approval from the assistance program and the program pays our bill. The homeowner gets a safer wood stove install and a lesson in chimney cleaning and improved burning techniques. But this only works if the local authority allows the continued use of the unlisted "old technology" stove. They also have to accept the safety standards that apply to re-lining existing chimneys. It also has to stay within the budget of the local grant program.

In short, as long as there is no law against it an unlisted stove could be a good deal for some people. A free stove that still operates within the manufacturers specifications can be operated relatively safely if in the hands of the right person. Sometimes it is the only choice when finances will not allow the purchase of a new stove. But the risk is higher. It is up to every individual to be informed and make the best decision for their own situation. If it can be afforded, I would recommend purchasing a "new technology" stove and a UL listed chimney system and have it installed by an expert. But sometimes that's not the decision made by the stove user. It is their decision, as long as local ordinances do not prohibit it.

Sean

Seaken said it best. yes there are real concerns. especially the chimney clearances and user involvment.
To add to the concerns, not only are they not clean burning, they do have a propensity of cresote build up.
A very dangerous situation that has to be monitored. Cleaner burning EPA approved stoves oppertate correctly mininumizes
this build up. Poorly routed exposed chimney system also is seseptiable of cresote accumulations.

burning properly seasond wood is also part of the equasion. Code requires ,this is national code, not local
all appliances to be permitted must be listed and labled.
I admit that a stove manufactured using the same process in 1978 and its identical model in 1980 are the same but 1980 model is labeled and ul listed

Many states take it one step further requireing all permitted stoves to be

EPA approved. There is a reason the government had to set a standard and a listing Safety either the stove, chimney, or for user.

For me, I require it to be labled and listed before I issue a permit. It is easier than telling some one he has to remove a piece of junk he bought at a yard sale ,
that he has paid to have installed. I have found it is easier to advoid poor choices in the first place. as I can not see the condition of the stove from my office

Look at the Dutchwest line awesome quality with a nice price. You could probably get a Med non-cat or large-cat for around 1200.00. And that's a stove that I've seen last 20+ years with little to no major maintenance. That's 60 per year for that stove not including chmney sweep cost or gasket replacements. Not bad. I'm willing to bet you could save more than 60 per year heating with wood and that's only going to get better as energy get's more expensive.