Catylist help.

Burning Questions · Dec 8, 2011

I have an old â€œHomesteaderâ€ model fireplace, made by the now out of business Hirschey Industries. Since I am getting smoke out of the chimney, I assume the catalysts are dead. The last time I had a chimney sweep out and asked him about them, he just scratched his head and said to run the fireplace without them. Of course that didnâ€™t impress me much.

I have the sales brochure, but little else for the fireplace. Nowhere does it tell me how to remove the cats. There is a plate that hangs down below the cat, which is the main problem The cats are round, and 6â€ across. I see no way to remove the plate.

Following is a picture of the situation. I have never seen cats with a hanging plate like this before. I donâ€™t see any way to get the things off.

Any help greatly appreciated!

(I originally posted this in the woodshed forum, under "How to change the Cat." if some kind moderator would please delete that thread I thank you!)

Todd · Dec 8, 2011

I never seen anything like that before, do you have more than one? Maybe that strip of metal right under the cat can be removed then the cat drops down and slides out? The whole thing looks like an old crude attempt to clean up the smoke and isn't a well designed system. Is it a fireplace or wood stove?

Backwoods Savage · Dec 8, 2011

Do you suppose if the cat were twisted that it would drop down and then slide out?

Todd · Dec 8, 2011

Yeah, there's got to be a way to remove it. It looks like the cat is exposed to flame impingment and it probably also needs some secondary air supply to help light off the cat. If it's a fireplace it may be best to just get rid of them and burn it hot for a cleaner burn or tear the whole thing out and install a new insert.

WoodpileOCD · Dec 8, 2011

Just read your post from the other day. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/85216/

Found it doing a google search on your stove (found virtually nothing else). I'm having a hard time picturing this stove with a cat in it and "bi fold doors". Your picture here looks like the cat was put in and the bracket welded in place to me. Design like this is probably just one of the reasons the company is no longer. Not to give you too short of an answer but your best option is probably going to be a different stove and there are a lot of good used ones around if you watch and wait. I have read that one of the reasons that cats got such a bad name to begin with is that they were added as an afterthought by a lot of companies just trying to meet the EPA regs. This looks like a prime example.

How about posting a picture of the whole setup.

Burning Questions · Dec 9, 2011

First off, thanks for all the responses!

Todd.... There are two cats (see picture). What looks like a strip in the picture is a rod. There is no way to get a hold of the thing to pull it out. It can't be pushed out either because of how the cat is backed into the corner. Also as you can see by the pictures, tearing the fireplace out is NOT going to be a feasible option.

Dennis.... I honestly had never thought of that possibility! I will see if I can see any threading around the top of the cat. I am afraid after all this time though if that is the case, its going to be welded in there by a combination of heat and rust. Near as I can tell the house was built in 1983, I sincerely doubt that anyone has ever touched those cats since the the house was built.

Rusty.... Pictures follow. Yeah.. the glass doors need cleaning. :shut: For safety's sake I always have a big double door fire screen in front of the whole thing when burning. You can see there are two air adjustments. The upper one is the main damper, and the lower one diverts the air flow to the cats when you shove the rod all the way in. In this particular case though shoving that rod in causes all air flow to stop and smoke to build up since the cats are dead (and clogged). The other two pictures are of the brochure pages. Sorry for the flash flare, my scanner is on the fritz. You can see that the doors on the model in the brochure are different, the are regular double doors. I wonder if the original doors have been replaced with the crummy doors that are on there now. Bifold doors on this kind of setup are just plain dumb. Other than the doors, it really doesn't seem all that bad a system to me, but I am a complete noob, so what do I know... :lol:

Edit: Just crawled into the fireplace and had a close look at the top of the cats. They are welded in there. So I guess that rod has got to come out somehow. I just don't see how.

fdegree · Dec 9, 2011

Can the rod, that seems to be holding the cat in place, be driven out with a punch of some sort?

Perhaps another metal rod that is just a little smaller in diameter than this one...place the smaller rod against this support rod and hit it with a hammer to drive it out of the "bracket". Then the cat might just fall down onto the disk that is "hanging" below the cat housing.

Burning Questions · Dec 9, 2011

Fdegree.....The problem is there is nowhere for the rod to go on the other side... The cat is too close to the corner. the only way to get it out would be to pull it out, on the side closer to the camera. But there is nothing to get a grip on. Worst comes to worst, I suppose I can get the darn thing off with a hacksaw, but I keep thinking there must be something I am missing.

fdegree · Dec 9, 2011

Burning Questions said:
Fdegree.....The problem is there is nowhere for the rod to go on the other side... The cat is too close to the corner. the only way to get it out would be to pull it out, on the side closer to the camera. But there is nothing to get a grip on. Worst comes to worst, I suppose I can get the darn thing off with a hacksaw, but I keep thinking there must be something I am missing.

I realize pictures can be deceiving, and you are right there to see the exact clearances, so forgive me if this sounds like I'm doubting you...that is not my intention.

The pin looks as if it is turned a little...to line up with the corner of the stove. Do you think there is enough room to drive the pin into the corner of the stove to get it out?

If not, can you drive the pin toward the corner until it falls out of the the support bracket that is closest to the camera...then get a hold of it and pull it down and toward the front of the stove just enough to clear the vertical support piece that you just drove out of...then pull the pin out of the bracket furthest from the camera.

There may not be enough play in the pin, while it is still inside the rear bracket, to pull it down and toward the front of the stove. But, it may be worth a shot since there doesn't seem to be any other options.

If this is not possible, then I'm out of suggestions...sorry

raybonz · Dec 9, 2011

That certainly is a puzzling situation! Talk about lame design.. Other than perhaps cleaning the smoke I doubt that fireplace would be very efficient.. I'd be considering either a free standing stove or a nice insert and make that fireplace a boat anchor..

Ray

Chargerman · Dec 9, 2011

Hard to tell without actually having it in front of me. Are you sure the side brackets are welded to the pipe? It looks to me like the entire assembly is made to rotate up and out of the way? The "pin" may be offest just enough from center that when rotated the cat would have room to come out. I may be way off but thought it might be the answer. Good luck!

Burning Questions · Dec 9, 2011

Todd... there is probably about 1 1/2 to 2 inches between the back of the pin and the corner, it's in there pretty tight. I could tap the pin back out of the side closest to the camera, but then it would have nowhere to go. I also wouldn't be able to get it back in, because I can barely get my hand back behind the cat. Its so tight in the hole that it's not going to drop down. I don't know why those pins are so tight, they would work just fine if they were loose enough to remove easily. Maybe that is the problem. They may have been loose at one time and are now warped. Looks like maybe a hacksaw job after all.

Does anyone have any idea why those hanging plates are there at all? It just doesn't seem like a useful addition, unless cat substrates were a lot more fragile when this fireplace was built.

Ray.... When I bought the house in 02, I had never even heard of a catalytic fireplace. I thought it was a fantastic thing, with the heat tubes inside to make warm to circulate through the house, and catalysts to burn the smoke. I know that a woodstove or a newer fireplace would be better, but I really don't have room for a stove (plus it would kill my insurance rates), and if you look at the picture and the diagram of the fireplace I think that I'd have to tear down that lovely rock work to change it. The firebox/heat tube chamber extends up almost to the second lever on the picture.

Charger... The plates will rotate up about 30 degrees and then they jam on the side of the cat tube. The "arms" that hold the plate aren't long enough to rotate it out of the way.

I'd really like to make this fireplace work the best it possibly can. I don't think I have a chance of being able to afford to replace the whole thing. I really appreciate all the suggestions. I'm isolated here, I live in outer nowhere, and no one local around here has a clue. I wish that I had access to this forum earlier, my first year here would have been so much less of an "adventure".

raybonz · Dec 9, 2011

Burning Questions said:
Todd... there is probably about 1 1/2 to 2 inches between the back of the pin and the corner, it's in there pretty tight. I could tap the pin back out of the side closest to the camera, but then it would have nowhere to go. I also wouldn't be able to get it back in, because I can barely get my hand back behind the cat. Its so tight in the hole that it's not going to drop down. I don't know why those pins are so tight, they would work just fine if they were loose enough to remove easily. Maybe that is the problem. They may have been loose at one time and are now warped. Looks like maybe a hacksaw job after all.

Does anyone have any idea why those hanging plates are there at all? It just doesn't seem like a useful addition, unless cat substrates were a lot more fragile when this fireplace was built.

Ray.... When I bought the house in 02, I had never even heard of a catalytic fireplace. I thought it was a fantastic thing, with the heat tubes inside to make warm to circulate through the house, and catalysts to burn the smoke. I know that a woodstove or a newer fireplace would be better, but I really don't have room for a stove (plus it would kill my insurance rates), and if you look at the picture and the diagram of the fireplace I think that I'd have to tear down that lovely rock work to change it. The firebox/heat tube chamber extends up almost to the second lever on the picture.

Charger... The plates will rotate up about 30 degrees and then they jam on the side of the cat tube. The "arms" that hold the plate aren't long enough to rotate it out of the way.

I'd really like to make this fireplace work the best it possibly can. I don't think I have a chance of being able to afford to replace the whole thing. I really appreciate all the suggestions. I'm isolated here, I live in outer nowhere, and no one local around here has a clue. I wish that I had access to this forum earlier, my first year here would have been so much less of an "adventure".

The plates are there to reduce flame impingement on the cat substrate as the thermal shock will crack them.. Here in Mass. woodstoves have no impact on home insurance are you sure that really is the case? How about you try to pivot the plate toward the back of the stove and use vicegrips on the round stock and rock it towards the front of the stove? If you ever do get the cats out and you replace them a cost of about $250.00 you may want to modify the cat chamber.. I think an insert could be an option as the ylive in the fireplace with metal surround up to the stone.. I am no expert just my thoughts.. Good luck to you!

BTW you do have a nice looking fireplace!

Ray

Chargerman · Dec 9, 2011

My stove has a thin stainless plate to protect the cat from direct flame and being struck by wood when loading.

Is that pin offset from center on the pipe? If it is that is all I can think of to get it out short of removing that pin. If it rotates 30 degrees, push up on the cat, and slide it out through the wider opening to the rear. I wonder how thick the catalyst is.

I think you know what I suggested but here is a rather poor drawing of what I meant.

Burning Questions · Dec 9, 2011

Ray... Thanks for the info about the plates! I will check into the woodstove/insurance question. I thought my insurance agent asked specifically about that when I signed on. What did you mean about modifying the cat chamber?

Charger... Thanks so much for the diagram, very nifty! I followed your suggestion and tried that, but sadly I was only able to push up slightly on the cat, the pin seems to be about dead center.

And TADA! Here is the solution, and thanks again for all the suggestions, especially the vice grips. I just hadn't tried the "force it" method enough because I thought there just HAD to be a easier way. ( I am also small and female, so brute force is generally not a good option).

I noticed that the plate on the other side had more of the rod sticking out towards the front of the stove. I was able to get a hold of it with my biggest vice grips and start twisting and pulling on it. It eventually it did come loose, once I was tied in a knot and covered in soot. When the one side was free of the hole in the holder, I was able to slide the whole thing over to the other hole and drop it down without having to entirely remove the rod. For the other cat I put a block behind the end of the rod on the other side and by tapping ( well ok, POUNDING) on the plate arm I was able to get some of the rod out where I can grab it. Attached is a picture of the offending item. I went after all the holes with a round file so now it actually slides in and out instead of being welded together.

I'm a little worried now about removing the cats with nothing to put back in the holders though. So I put the plate back on for now. It's a huge relief to know that I can now get them off again.

Any thoughts? Should I wait until I have the replacements before removing them? Also what is the best way to remove them? It seems kind of jammed in there. There isn't anything to grab a hold of. I suppose I could just break it up with a hammer

Time to take a shower, because I am now covered in soot. Nothing like sweeping out your fireplace with your entire body.

raybonz · Dec 9, 2011

Burning Questions said:
Ray... Thanks for the info about the plates! I will check into the woodstove/insurance question. I thought my insurance agent asked specifically about that when I signed on. What did you mean about modifying the cat chamber?

Charger... Thanks so much for the diagram, very nifty! I followed your suggestion and tried that, but sadly I was only able to push up slightly on the cat, the pin seems to be about dead center.

And TADA! Here is the solution, and thanks again for all the suggestions, especially the vice grips. I just hadn't tried the "force it" method enough because I thought there just HAD to be a easier way. ( I am also small and female, so brute force is generally not a good option).

I noticed that the plate on the other side had more of the rod sticking out towards the front of the stove. I was able to get a hold of it with my biggest vice grips and start twisting and pulling on it. It eventually it did come loose, once I was tied in a knot and covered in soot. When the one side was free of the hole in the holder, I was able to slide the whole thing over to the other hole and drop it down without having to entirely remove the rod. For the other cat I put a block behind the end of the rod on the other side and by tapping ( well ok, POUNDING) on the plate arm I was able to get some of the rod out where I can grab it. Attached is a picture of the offending item. I went after all the holes with a round file so now it actually slides in and out instead of being welded together.

I'm a little worried now about removing the cats with nothing to put back in the holders though. So I put the plate back on for now. It's a huge relief to know that I can now get them off again.

Any thoughts? Should I wait until I have the replacements before removing them? Also what is the best way to remove them? It seems kind of jammed in there. There isn't anything to grab a hold of. I suppose I could just break it up with a hammer

Time to take a shower, because I am now covered in soot. Nothing like sweeping out your fireplace with your entire body.

Wow those cats are really clogged! I would think you'd have smoke pouring into the room.. Glad the vicegrips idea worked however not sure what to say about getting those cats out.. At the very least I'd vacuum out the blockages so your smoke can escape the stove into the chimney.. Gently tapping the cats with a rubber mallet may loosen them up so they can drop out.. If you insist on using that stove I suggest you use S/S cats as they are not susceptible to cracking like a ceramic cat is.. If those cats are 6" round Woodstock sells them at a very good price at http.//www.woodstove.com .. Good luck!

Ray

mellow · Dec 9, 2011

By the looks of it that pin held in the cat and with some gentle tapping it should slide out, if not then take a big enough screw and see if it will bite into one of the holes and you can pull it out while tapping the outside.

It should have a gasket around it, once you get it out you can measure it and figure out what size to replace it with.

http://www.woodstovecombustors.com/Steel_Honeycomb.html

Burning Questions · Dec 10, 2011

Ray... If I close the bypass to run the airflow through the cats, that is exactly what happens! I never close that bottom bypass lever when I'm running the fireplace. Thanks for the SS suggestion. I'll check into that.

Mellow... Thanks, I'll try that. Like almost everything else in the fireplace, the cat I got the plate off is frozen in the socket. I tried gently prying it with a screwdriver and it feels solidly wedged. The one on the other side actually moved when I pushed on it but the side I got the plate off was jammed in there.

I had to put the whole thing back together to run the fire tonight. I'll try again tomorrow, if I feel up to another round of contortionist soot bath. ;-)

Catylist help.

New Member

Attachments

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

Minister of Fire

New Member

Attachments

Feeling the Heat

Attachments

New Member

Feeling the Heat

Minister of Fire

Feeling the Heat

New Member

Minister of Fire

Feeling the Heat

Attachments

New Member

Attachments

Minister of Fire

Resident Stove Connoisseur

New Member

Similar threads