Whoa! Better check the rest of this install...

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Woody Stover

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
13,121
Southern IN
This work was done by a guy who "used to work for" a local stove dealer. I'm thinking that maybe he used to cut the grass there as a boy.
:lol:
Looks like he ran out of stove pipe before he made it all the way to the support box. There's a 3/8" gap between the stove pipe and the support box drop, which he attempted to close with what looks like 500* silicone caulk, which is already crumbling away. There were no screws fastening the pipe to the flue outlet, or connecting the two sections of pipe.
I think I'd better have a look in the attic to see if there's any more funny business going on up there...

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/2bnator/Hearth/008-1.jpg


http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/2bnator/Hearth/006-2.jpg
 
Perhaps that's why he doesn't work there any more. Place burned down.
 
Are you sheeting me, thats all bad, I would find him and beat him to a pulp. :lol:
 
bluedogz said:
Perhaps that's why he doesn't work there any more. Place burned down.
Click to expand...
:lol:
 
oldspark said:
Are you sheeting me, thats all bad, I would find him and beat him to a pulp. :lol:
Click to expand...
He might be bigger than I am. Besides, I wouldn't want to take the chance of possibly hurting my hands. I've got too much firewood to process. :smirk:
But maybe I should report him to someone (BBB, internet work review site?) before he kills somebody...
 
that galvanized sheet probably cost more than it would have for a section of DVL telescoping pipe as far as clearances go.

Is that connecting piece stainless? looks like it took a lot of heat from the discoloration.
 
oldspark said:
Are you sheeting me, thats all bad, I would find him and beat him to a pulp. :lol:
Click to expand...

I'm w/ old spark, if you are worried about your hands, put gloves on. Those form fitting mechanics gloves work great :red: (don't ask)

Who's house is this in anyway? Yours? Friends? Neighbors?

pen
 
Hopefully there are smoke & CO detectors in the house. :)
I'd recommend a few changes :)
 
This is at my BIL's house. The galvanized sheet is something that he and a remodeler came up with, based on SIL's install which has similar sheet metal with a pattern on a couple of adjacent walls. I assume that is stainless at the top and is an integral part of the support box, but I could be wrong. I'm not too familiar with the ceiling/roof penetration installs; I've only dealt with my hearth setup and liners running up inside the masonry chimney. I saw that this install didn't look like my two SILs'; It looks like the stove pipe is supposed to fasten to the support box flange with screws. All three installs have Selkirk MetalBestos pipe above the roof, so I'm assuming that the support boxes and other stuff is (or should be) all matching components from Selkirk. I read here that you can't intermix parts from different makers. I'm reading the Selkirk installation instructions to get an idea of what I should be seeing when I look in the attic. Seems like the telescoping pipe would be the easiest way to connect the stove to the support box. Would this have to be from Selkirk as well, or are the telescoping pipes from different makers a standard item that could be interchanged?
 
Woody Stover said:
This is at my BIL's house. The galvanized sheet is something that he and a remodeler came up with, based on SIL's install which has similar sheet metal with a pattern on a couple of adjacent walls. I assume that is stainless at the top and is an integral part of the support box, but I could be wrong. I'm not too familiar with the ceiling/roof penetration installs; I've only dealt with my hearth setup and liners running up inside the masonry chimney. I saw that this install didn't look like my two SILs'; It looks like the stove pipe is supposed to fasten to the support box flange with screws. All three installs have Selkirk MetalBestos pipe above the roof, so I'm assuming that the support boxes and other stuff is (or should be) all matching components from Selkirk. I read here that you can't intermix parts from different makers. I'm reading the Selkirk installation instructions to get an idea of what I should be seeing when I look in the attic. Seems like the telescoping pipe would be the easiest way to connect the stove to the support box. Would this have to be from Selkirk as well, or are the telescoping pipes from different makers a standard item that could be interchanged?
Click to expand...

My DVL pipe and Class A are different manufactuers. The dealer (member on these forums) sold it to me so I assume they're allowed to be different.
 
Be careful not to mix different manufacturer's chimney products. Years ago I was involved in an investigation of a chimney fire that did a lot of damage to a house.
It was a wood burning fireplace insert with a stainless steel liner installed by a licensed company. Due to lack of proper maintainence of the chimney, a chimney fire resulted. The investigator for the insurance company found different manufacturer's products in the liner system. The result was the insurance company never paid a cent.

RPK1
 
Shouldn't the black pipe be inside the stainless pipe? If/when the hi-temp sealant fails, seems like it will funnel smoke into the house.
 
Epic fail,

That's all I can say to describe this install! What a train wreck and how could anyone let someone get away with such horrible crapsmanship!

Sorry for any words that may have offended anyone but REALLY?
 
egclassic said:
Shouldn't the black pipe be inside the stainless pipe? If/when the hi-temp sealant fails, seems like it will funnel smoke into the house.
Click to expand...

You may think so Eg, but in fact you want the male end coming down into the female end. That way if any creosote runs down it runs all the way into the stove, and not down the sides all around the outside of the piping and down onto everything below. If you pipes are the way your thinking, they are backwards.
 
RPK1, thanks for the insurance advice!

Fredo said:
Epic fail,

That's all I can say to describe this install! What a train wreck and how could anyone let someone get away with such horrible crapsmanship!

Sorry for any words that may have offended anyone but REALLY?
Click to expand...
I minced my words a bit but I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I figured it was better for us to fix it. If it was me, I wouldn't want this guy coming back to my house to "fix" anything!

Hogwildz said:
egclassic said:
Shouldn't the black pipe be inside the stainless pipe? If/when the hi-temp sealant fails, seems like it will funnel smoke into the house.
Click to expand...

You may think so Eg, but in fact you want the male end coming down into the female end. That way if any creosote runs down it runs all the way into the stove, and not down the sides all around the outside of the piping and down onto everything below. If you pipes are the way your thinking, they are backwards.
Click to expand...
Yep. And because the chimney creates draft (suction,) smoke won't come out, air will get sucked in through any gaps. I guess a back puff could force smoke out. This gap is huge, though. I may blob some furnace cement in there until I can get the new pipe.
 
You shouldn't see ANY stainless pipe under the support. That looks like exactly what my BIL did in his workshop. He jammed a 6" class A into 8" single wall off the stove and called it good.

This is what my ceiling penetration looks like with Metalbest and Selkirk DSP.
 

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Why?

I have about 1.5-2 foot of stainless in the house, then adapter and telescope dvl pipe. That is the way the stove shop installed it.

jeff_t said:
You shouldn't see ANY stainless pipe under the support.
Click to expand...
 
NATE379 said:
Why?

I have about 1.5-2 foot of stainless in the house, then adapter and telescope dvl pipe. That is the way the stove shop installed it.

jeff_t said:
You shouldn't see ANY stainless pipe under the support.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

That's how the Metalbest is put together, and he said that is what is up above. DVL is Simpson, right?
At any rate, that's a scary looking setup. I'd most definitely be looking at everything. And from the pic, that's 6" class A jammed into 8" single wall.
 
Simpson/Metalbest... same same I think. I forget what mine is, been a while since I had to buy parts.


Insurance will try to pick and choose anything so they can get out of paying. Wall painted the wrong color and they will deny.
 
Looks like you need the correct adapter, assuming you've got the correct flat ceiling support box and good clearances.
It's an easy fix assuming the rest of the stack is correct. What you need is a dripless twist lock connector to mate your stove pipe to your class A section.
you may also want to buy a telescopic section for easy cleaning.

Now that's a hack job you got there.

WB
 
jeff_t said:
At any rate, that's a scary looking setup. I'd most definitely be looking at everything. And from the pic, that's 6" class A jammed into 8" single wall.
Click to expand...

I'll 2nd this or 3rd, or wherever we're at with the analysis.

One thing to keep in mind, that while many, many folks here in the forums are familiar with or willing to investigate how stuff works, generally speaking we just might be in the minority. I just spoke with an electrician about upgrading my service panel. I told him that I might consider doing it myself but have so little time right now that there would be value in getting him to just knock it out in a day. He sees my various projects and tools, etc., and tells me that I'm in the minority these days. I was surprised. Knowing how or finding out how comes naturally to me. I guess it's easy to assume that other people see the world like we do. That's a fallacy.

So, I'm saying that to the unknowing homeowner this install could look okay, especially with a good talking "installer".

To me it looks shoddy!
 
Wood Stover,

My chimney install will be next week. According to my stove dealer which sources chimney installer out, dealer says nothing but great things about chimney installer. But rest assured I will have this guy under a microscope and make sure that install will be done correctly.

I am paying good money for this project and no one is going to Bamboozle me.


Fredo
 
Wow. I'd definitely contact that fellow again (pun intended).
 
Backwoods Savage said:
Wow. I'd definitely contact that fellow again (pun intended).
Click to expand...
Contact him with a 2 ft. long, 2" piece of White Oak? >:-(

Well, I crawled up into the attic to have a look. It is pretty cramped up there and I thought there was just blown-in cellulose insulation, but there was some fiberglass, too. I didn't have a dust mask so I didn't dig around too much. I think I would have to take loose the Attic Insulation Shield to get a better look at the ceiling support. There are 24" center rafters up there and it appears that the support is just nailed into one rafter. He didn't build a box between the rafters so that he could nail through all the mounting holes. As far as the stainless section under the support box, I don't think that's part of the ceiling support box. I guess he didn't get the Dripless Smoke Pipe Adapter, but just jammed the stainless pipe up in there and puttied up the resulting gap between it and the stove pipe. Sheesh. I'll tell my BIL what's going on and relay RPK1's insurance advice. Maybe he can get some money out of the hack, seeing as how he'll have to rework the installation.
Now I'm wondering if insurance companies would try to wriggle out of paying if the install wasn't done by a certified professional, even though it may have been done correctly.





Fredo said:
Wood Stover,
My chimney install will be next week. According to my stove dealer which sources chimney installer out, dealer says nothing but great things about chimney installer. But rest assured I will have this guy under a microscope and make sure that install will be done correctly.
I am paying good money for this project and no one is going to Bamboozle me.
Fredo
Click to expand...
I would find out now what brand of components will be installed, then go online and look at the maker's installation instructions. Then you'll know how it's supposed to be done. Verify up front with the installer that the installation will be done according to the manufacturer's instructions. Selkirk's instructions could be clearer and some of the pics are confusing (to me.)
 
Money aint gonna fix this, we need blood. :) :lol: :cheese: Just making sure the smiley faces work, sometimes they dont ya know.
 
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