$4000 complete install of Harman P35I?

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mrjohneel

mrjohneel

Feeling the Heat
Dec 8, 2011
275
Suburban Boston
I'd appreciate any feedback on my plan. I have a 2-story, 1500 sq. ft. home in a cold suburb outside of Boston. I've re-insulated my attic, sealed up window leaks as best as possible but it's an old house (1928, but solid) and I'm spending $3600 a year on oil heat. My oil boiler heats my hot water too. I have a masonry fireplace in the middle of my house, first floor, not against an outside wall. (I have a removable foam insert in there to save heating costs.) My plan is to insert a Harman P35I into the fireplace. I like the Harman for the look and reputation. I live alone with no kids crawling around so I don't need to blast the heat and I think the P35 is big enough for me. I keep my house cool and wear a sweater. (But, again, I'm PAYING $3600 A YEAR on oil.)

I'm VERY handy but I don't want to climb my 2 1/2 stories to my roof to try the install myself. (My chimney top is within 30 feet of the stove.) So I asked around and my guy says he can install it with the vent through the existing chimney, with the $100 Harman rebate, for $4088. Seems very reasonable. However, he said I don't need an OAK because of the fact my house isn't sealed up tight.

So, I respect the expertise i've seen on this site and would like to ask: what's your overall thoughts about the stove, install costs, OAK issue? I'm ready to pull the trigger, I think, by year's end to get the $300 tax credit. But I'd be interested in all thoughts. Many thanks in advance.
 
Just to add one other thing: the $4000 is for the stove and the install -- that is, complete package, including Mass. sales tax.
 
If that includes the 30' liner, I think that is a decent price. The liner should be 4"
I'd try to get the OAK thrown in.
 
mrjohneel said:
I'd appreciate any feedback on my plan. I have a 2-story, 1500 sq. ft. home in a cold suburb outside of Boston. I've re-insulated my attic, sealed up window leaks as best as possible but it's an old house (1928, but solid) and I'm spending $3600 a year on oil heat. My oil boiler heats my hot water too. I have a masonry fireplace in the middle of my house, first floor, not against an outside wall. (I have a removable foam insert in there to save heating costs.) My plan is to insert a Harman P35I into the fireplace. I like the Harman for the look and reputation. I live alone with no kids crawling around so I don't need to blast the heat and I think the P35 is big enough for me. I keep my house cool and wear a sweater. (But, again, I'm PAYING $3600 A YEAR on oil.)

I'm VERY handy but I don't want to climb my 2 1/2 stories to my roof to try the install myself. (My chimney top is within 30 feet of the stove.) So I asked around and my guy says he can install it with the vent through the existing chimney, with the $100 Harman rebate, for $4088. Seems very reasonable. However, he said I don't need an OAK because of the fact my house isn't sealed up tight.

So, I respect the expertise i've seen on this site and would like to ask: what's your overall thoughts about the stove, install costs, OAK issue? I'm ready to pull the trigger, I think, by year's end to get the $300 tax credit. But I'd be interested in all thoughts. Many thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I'm a huge advocate of the OAK. You do not NEED it but think about this. If you do not have it you will create a situation where you are going to push hundreds of cubic feet of already warmed air out the chimney. You know what the fireplace was doing without a fan blowing up it. That is why the insulation is there. it was stopping the natural draft. Well without the OAK you are going to suck more air out of your house and send it up the chimney. That air will come back in through your outside walls, doors and windows. So you are going to increase the cold drafts. If it was me I would insist on the OAK.
 
Good advice but let me ask this: where does the OAK go in an internally located masonry chimney? Does it have to run all the way to the top of the chimney, meaning that the hot air vent would have to stick up a few feet above the top of the chimney, correct? And if the OAK ends within the chimney, then I assume you can't put a top plate around the end of the hot vent. That is, you have to keep the flue open. I have a chimney cap at the top of my chimney now. Can I run the 4" hot vent to the top, leave the chimney cap (grill sides, solid roof) where it is, and end the OAK just a few feet up the chimney? That way the flue remains open, the chimney is capped above the hot vent, and the OAK is far enough away from the hot vent? Again, I appreciate these responses.
 
They will throw in the OAK. It's a $60 dealer cost part.
 
My insert is getting installed in 2 weeks. I insisted on OAK. They are going out the back wall of my masonry fireplace. That wouldn't work in your case, of course.

They can run it up the chimney, as others have said - there are various configurations. I was researching this myself before the dealer told me they can just go out the back in my case.
 
Do you think you have to go all the way to the top of the chimney with the OAK. Or can it terminate half way up, say? Harman's install book is a bit unclear on this. I want to end my hot vent at the top and retain my existing chimney cap, rather than buy a new cap for the hot vent which would have to be higher than the OAK. But I don't know if I can do this.
 
Another option for an OAK might be if you drop it through the floor and then over to the side wall of the basement/crawl space (e.g. to a window). I haven't done this for a pellet stove. But I have an OAK like that to my wood stove in the basement. There's 16' of 3" aluminum tubing run from the side of the foundation to that stove's air intake, and it pulls the air in through that quite handily. On the one hand, the wood stove's exhausting more air than a pellet stove, so there's the suction from that. But then it doesn't have a pellet stove's fans to pull air in through the OAK either. So my best guess is for a pellet stove it would work fine too, to just drop through the floor and go sideways rather than send the OAK up the chimney. 3" aluminum tubing is cheap.
 
Yes, I've heard that you can go through the ash trap on the floor of the fireplace -- which I have. Mine terminates in a full basement near where I have my oil-fired boiler. I've read about that option but my question is: how is that better than not having an OAK and just drawing air from the house?. Thank you in advance. I/m close to pulling the trigger and getting one of these things but I got to resolve this OAK question. I just emailed Harman and ask them to resolve the instructions in their manuals (get outside air) and their dealer's suggestion that it's hooey.
 
He was saying to run the OAK through the ash door in the bottom of the fireplace, into the basement, then out through a basement wall.

Almost every dealer says you don't need an OAK but practically every manufacturer recommends it in the manual if they don't require it outright.
 
OK, Wert and Whit, I get the down and out idea. I'll run it by the dealer and if he objects I may do it myself. Thank you.
 
mrjohneel said:
OK, Wert and Whit, I get the down and out idea. I'll run it by the dealer and if he objects I may do it myself. Thank you.
Click to expand...

If they are already on the roof they can run the OAK down the chimney at the same time It is the easiest way for you to have this done. There is even a top cap just for such a situation. You need to seal off the chimney anyway so in lue of a single pipe you have two and they can be different heights or the same heights though I recommend the exhaust higher.

You can go down and out but remember you have an insert. The inserts frame from Harmon is pointed up already. USE IT do not skimp and just connect the stove to the oak. You will want to pull the stove out and it is cleaner and easier to use the harmon sealing system than dealing with something connected to the insert directly. Just my two cents.
 
I would insist on a full liner 4" diameter or go through the rear wall of the fireplace if you can.

Eric
 
Eric, my fireplace is centrally located (not against an outside wall) so I can't do that. I'm now deciding whether to bring outside air from the top of the chimney or just terminate the pipe above the flue (which harman says you can do).
 
On my p35i setup...
I ran the exhaust liner full length to my chimney cap. However I only ran the OAK about 4 feet up the chimney, just past the insulation. I cut some holes in the side of my sheet metal chimney cap, and got some louvered caps from home depot that I inserted into the holes.

This way it allows for air to enter the chimney and get pulled down to the stove and also keeps bugs, critters, and rain out of the system.
 
mrjohneel said:
Eric, my fireplace is centrally located (not against an outside wall) so I can't do that. I'm now deciding whether to bring outside air from the top of the chimney or just terminate the pipe above the flue (which harman says you can do).
Click to expand...

Yes you can do that but make sure there is a full liner and sealed at the top or the fly ash will be drawn back ineo the unit and the distribution blower will blow it back into the house. Loads of fun to clean.

Eric
 
Eric, sealing at the top of the chimney defeats the purpose of having an air intake valve, no? I believe you need to use a cap with a screened in portion to allow air to enter the chimney.
 
mrjohneel said:
Eric, sealing at the top of the chimney defeats the purpose of having an air intake valve, no? I believe you need to use a cap with a screened in portion to allow air to enter the chimney.
Click to expand...

Done properly the end of the OAK will exit the chimney and be below the cap on the vent but above the seal on the chimney block off. If you look on here somewhere tj has the setup for his insert.

The chimney should be sealed at the top so nothing can enter around or through either the vent or the OAK except exhaust air or intake air.
 
mrjohneel said:
Eric, sealing at the top of the chimney defeats the purpose of having an air intake valve, no? I believe you need to use a cap with a screened in portion to allow air to enter the chimney.
Click to expand...

Oh no you want that sealed off at the top. You do not want anything sucked down the chimney cause if the distribution blower get it it will come back into the room.

Eric
 
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