starting new install

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upanovr

Member
Sep 11, 2011
25
Ohio
Hello all. Long time lurker first time poster. Might as well be the install right? I haven't gotten very far yet but here it is. this will be the home of a new Timber Ridge (englander) 50-TRW35. We've been in this house for just over a year now and I'm about a year late doing this. Our last house, or other house (we have it rented out waiting for the market to come back a little), had a small freestanding wood stove that the brand escapes me at the moment. Anyhow it heated that 1150sq ft circular floor plan great. This house is to spread out to heat the same way so I went with a wood furnace instead and thought this one looked the best, next to a caddy but $$, to have sitting in the house. I must say a heat pump is the most unpleasant way I have ever heated. So here is the progress. The upper level will be built up more than the step. It should be about 8 1/2" when it's done. There will be some ceiling work that will follow the same shape but set back about 12" from the outside edge of the hearth.
 

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Never seen a furnace on a raised hearth in a corner. How does it tie into the ductwork?
 
I'm planning on running 8" black pipe thru the ceiling then galvanized to the hot side of the air handler about 20 feet away. It's not ideal but hopefully it will work. I was considering going up to 10" in the attic. I'm open to suggestions. If I had a basement thing would be much simpler but.....
 
It seems like this setup would be better with the 30NC than a furnace. Pay very close attention to clearances an flue requirements.
 
Also need to maintain clearance on the ductwork. Those pipes can get pretty hot in the event of a power failure.
 
I don't think I could push the air to the other end of the house with the 30nc but wish I could, it would look much nicer. I'll probably suapend the duct from the roof rafters, think that would be good?
 
The way I have it laid out it is 1" to the good on clearance with single wall pipe but I'm using double wall up to the chimney for extra peace of mind.
 
Little rough but you get the idea.
 

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Good Question. One I haven't been able find an answer to. I'm planning on using two 1/2" layers of durock wich doesn't amount to much I know, .52 I believe. All the manual says is it needs to be on a non combustible floor. I got no real help from the building permit folks either. All they said was "that will be $58.58 call us when you're done".
 
upanovr said:
Little rough but you get the idea.

Since it looks to me like the living room would be the logical place to put a new install as to spread the heat the best, I'll assume that there is a specific reason you are putting it in the far end of the house and not there. Seems like if it went in the liv room you could go with a stove instead of the furnace and ductwork.
 
I only ask because I when I installed my Englander 30, the R-value requirement was much higher than I could achieve with a few sheets of durock.

I had planned to use wood framing, until I looked at the requirements. I had to use metal studs in order to get the air gap necessary to give me enough R-value to the floor.

I took the metal studs and mated them together to make a box for extra strength on the sides. I laid them flat on the floor (only needed ~1.5" of space) and placed them about 6-8" apart on centers. (This was probably overkill, but... that's just the way my dad and I tend to engineer things.)

I did 3 layers of durock over the metal studs for extra stability. I think I only needed 2 layers to achieve the necessary R-value.

-SF
 
WoodpileOCD said:
upanovr said:
Little rough but you get the idea.

Since it looks to me like the living room would be the logical place to put a new install as to spread the heat the best, I'll assume that there is a specific reason you are putting it in the far end of the house and not there. Seems like if it went in the liv room you could go with a stove instead of the furnace and ductwork.

The living room is to small to put the stove on the interior wall. if I put it on the front wall then I would have either a very short chimney or too much chimney sticking very far above the roof where it comes thru to get a good draft.
 
SlyFerret,
I see the manual for the 30-nc has the r value listed for the floor. I wonder why englander didn't do this for the 50-trw35? thanks for the info on how you did yours, any pics?
 
upanovr said:
SlyFerret,
I see the manual for the 30-nc has the r value listed for the floor. I wonder why englander didn't do this for the 50-trw35? thanks for the info on how you did yours, any pics?

I did a write up of my whole install saga.
http://matt.gehrisch.us/2009/02/01/installing-my-englander-30-nc/

If they don't specify r-value for the floor for your unit, it may simply be no floor insulation is needed. If that is the case, you should be in good shape with what you have started.

-SF
 
Making slow progress. I do have a couple questions. Should I go ahead and skim the durock joints with thinset while I'm waiting on the tile to arrive or just do it all at once when I install the tile? Never done tile anywhere so this is all new to me. Also, I went to lowes tonight scouting out a way to safely pass the 8" hot air duct (black pipe) thru the ceiling and only came up with running it thru something like a 10" or 12" starter collar. Then somehow using something like a trim collar to finish it off. Any ideas out there. This is killing me having 19deg temps and still no fire. Oh well gotta be patient.
 

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It seems I'm just a few steps ahead of you on my own build Upanovr. I started my build in July, lol. I live in the Mojave Desert so there was no sense of urgency in the 100 degree heat but now that it's mid 20's and 30's at night it was time to pick up the pace a bit.
I think skimming the rock prior to tile seems unnecessesary(sp) I built my hearth on a concrete and tile base so I didn't have the same concerns.
Like you, I had never done any kind of renovation to anything so it was a learn as you go process.

I'm at the point now where I've been burning for a week or two for the "test run". Finished installing the heat shield yesterday and will call for final inspection on Monday.

One thing you might consider when getting your stove pipe, chimney pipe, ceiling box, etc is to make sure it's rated to 2000 degrees. I know Lowes/Home Depot doesn't carry that kind of stuff here.
(That was another thing I didn't consider. Talk about sticker shock)

At any rate, good luck with your build. You are certainly at the right spot for advice.
 
Thanks for the input Dirtsurgeon. I actually prematurelly bought the starter kit at lowes and I was supprised how cheap it seemed. I think it's going back and I'll be looking for another option. What did you end up getiing? I've had a few people refer me to a couple web sites to order from but just unsure of what I really need as far as ceiling support and such. The chimney pipe seemed ok at lowes but I believe some manufacturers conect in different ways. Yes this forum is very helpful and has safety in mind which I appreciate since I work nights so my family is sleeping while a controled (hopefully) burn is going on.
 
Well, I just checked the kit out again and I guess I was basing my "cheap" thought on the ceiling support. I am used to seeing a square box protruding thru rather than a circle and I didn't really understand how it went together the first time I looked at it. It is made by selkirk which is what I was looking at online after my last post so It must be ok. I didn't find any spec that rated the pipe at 2000 deg for anything I found online. They said sustained 1000 deg and short blast of 1600 deg for times like open door loading I would guess, I think it was worded as "brief forced air" or somethig like that. Anyhow, can't wait to be nice and toasty warm without the heat pump blaring behind the house......
 
SlyFerret said:
I only ask because I when I installed my Englander 30, the R-value requirement was much higher than I could achieve with a few sheets of durock.

I had planned to use wood framing, until I looked at the requirements. I had to use metal studs in order to get the air gap necessary to give me enough R-value to the floor.

I took the metal studs and mated them together to make a box for extra strength on the sides. I laid them flat on the floor (only needed ~1.5" of space) and placed them about 6-8" apart on centers. (This was probably overkill, but... that's just the way my dad and I tend to engineer things.)

I did 3 layers of durock over the metal studs for extra stability. I think I only needed 2 layers to achieve the necessary R-value.

-SF

Seems that if you have a prob with heating below the appliance, you'll need cooling airflow between the insulant and the flammables, not just an air-gap. Silly to have to plunk down "$58.58" to find out what local BI wants.
 
CTYank said:
SlyFerret said:
I only ask because I when I installed my Englander 30, the R-value requirement was much higher than I could achieve with a few sheets of durock.

I had planned to use wood framing, until I looked at the requirements. I had to use metal studs in order to get the air gap necessary to give me enough R-value to the floor.

I took the metal studs and mated them together to make a box for extra strength on the sides. I laid them flat on the floor (only needed ~1.5" of space) and placed them about 6-8" apart on centers. (This was probably overkill, but... that's just the way my dad and I tend to engineer things.)

I did 3 layers of durock over the metal studs for extra stability. I think I only needed 2 layers to achieve the necessary R-value.

-SF

Seems that if you have a prob with heating below the appliance, you'll need cooling airflow between the insulant and the flammables, not just an air-gap. Silly to have to plunk down "$58.58" to find out what local BI wants.

That was the cost of the permit. Who were you directing the first part of your post to?
 
Finally, back to good ole wood heat. As with most projects it isn't completely done as you can see in the pic where we are kinda laughing at the "snout" on top of the furnace. Been burnig since tues so I have 5 days of playing with it and 2 of those nights have dropped into the low teens here. The only issue I have so far is some glossy black buildup on both doors and in the ash pan area. I don't know what it is but guessing just new stove burnoff maybe? Anyhow, this may be the fanciest perch for a furnace but I guess I must have a pretty good wife because she says it looks fine in an industrial sorta way. She just loves the extra warmth in the house now without the extra $$. So what do you all think? Come on I can take it.....
 

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upanovr said:
Finally, back to good ole wood heat. As with most projects it isn't completely done as you can see in the pic where we are kinda laughing at the "snout" on top of the furnace. Been burnig since tues so I have 5 days of playing with it and 2 of those nights have dropped into the low teens here. The only issue I have so far is some glossy black buildup on both doors and in the ash pan area. I don't know what it is but guessing just new stove burnoff maybe? Anyhow, this may be the fanciest perch for a furnace but I guess I must have a pretty good wife because she says it looks fine in an industrial sorta way. She just loves the extra warmth in the house now without the extra $$. So what do you all think? Come on I can take it.....

I like it. You did a fine job. You have a cool wife to be accepting on putting a furnace in the living area. Still looks cool to me.
 
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