Ongoing problems with Heathstone Homestead

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rocheck

New Member
Dec 5, 2011
27
New Mexico
All the folks on the forum have been a fantastic help on trying to get the Hearthstone Homestead where it will really put out some heat. Things are much better, but the stove will still not heat the "stove room" or the rest of the house.

Here is a summary of where we are. New Hearthstone Homestead installed on the hearth of an existing fireplace. Heat shield of sheet metal blocks off the entry of the fireplace, rear discharge of the stove goes through this shield into the triple wall stove pipe that is about 15 feet tall. House has recently been remodeled with R30+ insulation in the ceiling, all new energy efficient windows and doors, exterior walls are 2X4 insulated covered with Tyvek, covered with foam insulation board covered with concrete Hardy board exterior siding. From everything we can tell, the house is very tight and no major leaks.

The "stove room" (living area, dining room, and kitchen) is about 600 square feet. Stove sits in one corner of the room on the hearth where it vents into the existing fireplace. There is a long hall that goes off the stove room down to bedrooms in the back of the house. My concern is NOT about heating the entire area but mainly heating the area where the stove is located and where we spend most of our time.

Through the help and input from the forum, I have it figured out how to build the fire, get it started, and reduce the damper input to where there is a ongoing fire with a small secondary flame over a good bed of coals That is what I have been doing the last couple of days. Wood that is being used is mequite and oak that was cut two years ago and has spent two hot dry summers in the Texas heat of 100+ deg.

Using yesterday has an example, fire ran in the stove all day. High outside temp was 47F. We ran the stove all day with regular relads of wood as needed. Stove top temp was usually in the 250-350F range, I could not get the stove temp above that range. Temp in the stove room was comfortable around 70-72 deg. By 7:30pm last night my wife was asking me to work on the fire because the room was chilled.

Between 7:30pm and this morning, I put wood in the stove three times. I am using short cut mesquite about 8-10" long so I can fill the stove with wood running front to back. From about 9pm on last night, the interior of the stove had a deep bed of glowing red coals with a small secondary flame-burn. Damper was usuall set at about 15% open. The glass door on the Homestead has a 11" tall display opening, the glowing red coal bed was usuall about 6" or 50% of the way up the door. At no time that I observed did the stove top temp get above 400F. When you stand in the area around the stove, the only area that really seems to be radiating heat
is off the front glass door.

When I went to bed about 10:30 a good fire with good bed of coals, temp outside had dropped to 34F and stove room temp was
68F. Stove top temp was around 375F. I put wood on the stove again about 2:30 and made sure that there was a good secondary burn. When I got up at 6:30, there was still a great bed of coals with some log remnants, good secondary burn was going on, and stove top temp was about 250F. Outside temp was 27F and stove room temp had dropped to 62F.

This is a new installation with the Hearthstone Homestead and installation was made with the intention that it would heat the stove room area and some heat would also trasnfer to remaining area. If I can't get the room warm and toasty with outside temp in the 20's, my real concern is what is going to happen when it gets to be in negative numbers outside.

I have talked to the installing dealer and their story is that this simply can't be happening, that there is no way that the Homestead will not heat a 600sq ft area. This is my fourth wood stove and the only one that I have ever had a problem in getting sufficient heat from. All the previous stoves were top vent freestanding metal stoves and not soapstone rear discharge like the Homestead.

Any additional info, input or information would be appreciated......we just want to be warm and cozy.
 
Wow rocheck, that sounds like a nightmare. Also very weird. I have one more question on the wood. Has it been split and if so, when? But it sure seems in your area that wood should dry even in rounds.

The two main things are always the fuel and air. It almost sounds as if the draft is not working correctly and perhaps too much heat is being sent up the chimney and this would account for low stove temperature and fast burns. Therefore, a suggestion on checking the draft might be in order. I am not certain how the draft control works on the Heritage but this should be checked. I remember checking this as we came close to buying that stove. For sure the dealer should be involved in seeking a solution to this problem and I'd get on them quickly.
 
You are obviously an experienced wood burner so I don't know what to look at. I don't have your stove but do others get higher temperatures out of that model? Concerning your structure insulation, do you get any icicles from the roof? Have you tried taking a shower curtain rod and blanket to seal off the stove room and then seeing how hot you can get that room? I might also try sealing off that room, get the house up to 72 degrees and see if you can hold that temperature with an electric heater. The stove is not getting that hot, but I think you may be losing heat somewhere.

Let us know how this is solved. It is easy to solve a new burner's problems, but you have owned other homes and stoves so I don't know.
 
But a stove putting out only 250-350 degrees is not going to heat much air! I agree with the testing of the space but there still has to be a problem with fuel or the air that the stove is getting or that everything is just going straight up the chimney.
 
Interesting problem. I feel for you. No fun being cold with a good heater in the room.

Last year I spent a very frustrating fall weekend trying to get heat out of a friend's Homestead. The wood was some very dry cherry that he had cut and stacked for the fire pit a few years before and was sitting on the enclosed front porch of the camp for about a year he said. The owner seemed satisfied enough, but he had never used a wood stove before. I knew this was not right and started a thread here. Best anybody could come up with here was that the flue was on the short side, which it was.

I personally think there is something out of whack with the draft mechanism in his stove. It was not at all responsive to the air control lever, and it felt like it was binding at times. He'll probably just use it like that and think that is all his $5000 investment has to offer. :shut:

Best results I got were about where you are (no thermo on the unit, but I know what 400º feels like and it wasn't even close). I did get some small secondaries going, but the heat from them was most unimpressive. I started it at about 6 AM and by noon the outside of the house was warmer than the stove room. Haven't spoken to him since then, but I sure hope he figured it out. He fully expected that it would warm that room fine in January, but there was some bigger issue besides warm outdoor temps. Even at sub-freezing morning temps, it still didn't draw worth a damn.

Beautiful looking stoves, though. I think they are my favorite of all currently made stoves in that regard.
 
The only other thing I can think of is to look under the stove where the air setting slide is located. On my Homestead I think there were some bolts sticking out of the thing that restricted the levers full movement. I had to grind down the bolts to get it to open and close 100%. I eventually replaced the stove with a Woodstock Fireview which worked out much better.
 
You are not the first person to swear they couldn't get any heat out of a Homestead. I don't understand it, but it seems to happen. We are using ours in an alomst 2000 sqft two story, and honestly, at +47 degrees outside, we really couldn't have a fire, as it would cook us out.

With *about* a 2cuft box, not going to get 12 hour burns, but in weather above freezing we do get close to 10, down into the teens and we will have to run it a bit harder and drop to 5-6 hours between feedings, but I often only load about a "half load" esp. late at night, because I am to lazy/tired/sleepy to go all tetris on the thing.

You seem to be sure your wood is dry. How are you / how much are you loading?

Are you letting it run on full air until all the wood is involved? Then turning the air down in stages? Finally ending at 15% or so?

Do you have a "T" in your flue, and if so is it capped? Does your stove pipe out the back have "rise"? (just wondering about maybe a draft issue)

I know your install is done already, (and pics would be nice, we like pics) but the Homestead is kind of unique in that it can go top or back flue. So you may have had a choice.. maybe not depending on what your instal needed.
 
Good evening to all and Happy Holidays,
I am new to the forum as I am doing my homework as I am thinking of buying and installing a Hearthstone Homestead wood stove. Reading the comment I think that I am going to start looking at another brand.

Thanks

M
 
Its now 6:30 pm here and outside temp is 28F, going to a low of 14F tonight so it should be a good night to check stove again.

I had to go into town today, when I got hom about 30 minutes ago this was the stove status. My wife had cleaned all the ashes and restarted a new fire, stove was about 50-60% full of mesquite cut into 8-10" lengths stacked front to back in the stove. She had a great fire going with good size secondary burn going with air damper set at about 15-20%. Stove top temp is right around
500F. Temp in the stove room is 72F, outside is 28F with no wind.

To answer questions:

The mesquite was cut and split in summer of 2009. It was first cut into about 18-20" legths and then split. The wood sat outside for two of the hottest and driest summers ever experienced in Texas. I have recut a lot of the wood into 8-10" pieces so I can load the stove front to back and split the rounds so there is nothing more than about 4" in size.

The house has a metal roof with R-30 insulation between roof and attic. Whenever we get snow, it usually slides of the steep incline of the roof as soon as larger amounts build up. We had to extend the "roof" over part of our porch-deck because we were getting snow accumulation of up to 3ft when it slid off the roof. We do from time to time have icicles form on the edge of the roof.

I have tried to burn a couple of loads of Aspen, cut a couple of years ago and has been stacked for all those years. As someone said that is like burning toliet paper. Still can't get temps up with aspen.

I do not have a flue adjustment because the exhaust exists right out of the stove (rear discharge) and goes into the metal heat shield in front of the fireplace.

In regards to fire, we start a fire with damper fully open and the front door slightly cracked. As soon as the wood is fully involved and there are lots of charred areas showing on the wood I reduce damper to 50% and leave it that way for 20-30 minutes. I then completely open the damper again for about 10 minutes and then go to a 85% closed damper.

Its now 6:47pm, about 15 minutes since I started reply. Temp on stove top is still just over 500F. There is a great bed of glowing red coals, four big pieces of wood are showing with small secondary flames on them. Damper is still at 85% closed.

Lets see what happens over the next couple of hours.
 
Its now almost 8pm. The fire in the stove is still burning well, several good size log remants are still intact, charred and covered with small secondary flame. Temp on the stove top has dropped to about 350F. This seems to be where the problem is. The stove can have a good burning fire with good bed of coals and secondary flame and it starts losing heat. It has been about 3.5 to 4 hours since the stove was 50% loaded the mequite rounds. In my opinion it should be holding stove top heat at 500-550F for much longer so that it will be providing heat into the stove room.

I have reloaded the stove about 75% full and will go through the start up procedure again to see if I can get the heat back up into the 500-550 area. I don't think the stove should be dropping temp so dramatically if there is still a good bed of coals and a good fire still going........

What say folks...
 
rocheck said:
Its now almost 8pm. The fire in the stove is still burning well, several good size log remants are still intact, charred and covered with small secondary flame. Temp on the stove top has dropped to about 350F. This seems to be where the problem is. The stove can have a good burning fire with good bed of coals and secondary flame and it starts losing heat. It has been about 3.5 to 4 hours since the stove was 50% loaded the mequite rounds. In my opinion it should be holding stove top heat at 500-550F for much longer so that it will be providing heat into the stove room.

I have reloaded the stove about 75% full and will go through the start up procedure again to see if I can get the heat back up into the 500-550 area. I don't think the stove should be dropping temp so dramatically if there is still a good bed of coals and a good fire still going........

What say folks...

For lack of a better way to put it.. if you only load the stove half full, it will only heat half as long.. The stove does "cycle". That seems to be the nature of EPA stoves.. maybe non EPA also, but I don't have any exp. with them..

Depending on what the outside weather is doing, I may reload at 200, or 300, or sometimes 350.
 
Its now 9:20pm and outside temp is 27F. It has been hour and twenty minutes since I reloaded the stove. stove has a very good bed of glowing coals, is about 80% full of logs with good secondary burn going on them. Stove top temp is still just over 350F. With over one hour and twenty minutes of good fire with secondary burn going, temp on stove top has not increased.
 
Sounds like progress 500 with a half load. Hows the room temp doing, any better? You might try turning the air down further, send less heat up the flue and lengthen burn cycles. My Mansfield likes to be ran with the primary closed or just a tap on to hit 500+.
 
Its now midnight and outside temp is 25F. Stove is completely envolved with glowing red coals and very small secondary flames. Stove top temp is just over 400F with about 15% air damper. It has been about
2.5 hours since the stove was loaded. Stove room temp is 69F
 
Its 5am and outside temp is 21F. Just woke up to check stove, still a very good bed of coals. Stove top temp is 200F and the stove room temp is 65F. Just reloaded stove to 100% and as soon as fire is fully engaged I am going back to bed.
 
rocheck said:
[Snippage]My wife had cleaned all the ashes and restarted a new fire
[More snippage]The wood sat outside for two of the hottest and driest summers ever experienced in Texas.
[Yet more snippage]I do not have a flue adjustment because the exhaust exists right out of the stove (rear discharge) and goes into the metal heat shield in front of the fireplace.
[Final snippage]

Not the prob here, but a decent layer of ashes provides insulation, keeping firebox temps up. A GOOD THING for completeness of combustion.

The calendar does not tell when wood is ready. Moisture meter can. Do you have one? $10 will buy you one via Harbor Freight.

The drama here is likely based on fuel quality and/or draft. Seems you're telling us you have some mystery connection between the stove and the flue. You really want a tight connection. Please provide details. Leaks here will make stove not draw, and will have you trying to heat New Mexico. You can locate many air leaks with an incense stick; air leaks are all bad.

Often you can get useful info on what flue is doing by going outside and observing flow out of flue. After collecting some "visual data points" you can piece together a picture of what's happening.

Hopefully, it'll all settle into place for you.
 
Status at 9am.......aftrer reloading the stove around 5am, I next checked at 9am. Room temp was still at 65F, same as at 5am and outside temp was 16F. Stove top temp was 425F with a good burn still going on.

Is it unreasonable to expect the stove to keep the "stove room" around 70F if stove is fully loaded and operating correctly and outside temp is 16? From 5am too 9am the stove did bring the stove top temp up from 200 to 425 but did not increase the room temp...
 
If you have a 425 degree stove in a 600 sqft space and are not raising the temperature of the room.... something else is the problem. At 450 or so, ours keeps +1975sqft very comfortable. The downstairs is around 1100sqft or so.. You almost have to have an awfuly large air leak situation.. Or zero air movement.. are you using any fans, either on the stove (blower kit) or in another room blowing cold floor level air towards the stove?

It was 30 degrees out when I got up at 0730. No fire for the last few days. Stone cold stove. HVAC thermo 66 degrees in entryway where thermostat is. Loaded 6-7 S/M splits, (nothing bigger than my forearm) 1/4 super cedar, air full open, door closed. Lit SC, put leash on dog, went for walk, came back in at 0750 or so. Fed dogs. At 0810, stove was at 300 degrees and climbing, wood fully involved. Turned air down to 50% took shower, got dressed, came down to get breakfast, stove at 425, HVAC thermo at 69, turned air down to 20% or so. Stove climbed to about 450. Ran to town to do some errands, got home at 1200, HVAC thermo at 73, stove at 275 or so. Loaded three largish splits, fully involved in 15 minutes, stove top temp climbing. Air down to 50% after 5 minutes, down to 10% or so.

Right now,(1638) stove top at 200, air still at 10%, HVAC thermo at 71, outside temp at 37. Cloudy all day, no solar gain.
 
26.2 Or Nothing said:
Good evening to all and Happy Holidays,
I am new to the forum as I am doing my homework as I am thinking of buying and installing a Hearthstone Homestead wood stove. Reading the comment I think that I am going to start looking at another brand.

Thanks

M

Welcome to the forum 26.2 Or Nothing. We have several forum members in your area and I am a bit west. We looked hard at the Hearthstone line as they have some beautiful stoves. We ended up buying a Woodstock Fireview and have been super happy all the way. Check those out on their website:

Woodstock Soaptone Stoves
 
Backwoods Savage said:
26.2 Or Nothing said:
Good evening to all and Happy Holidays,
I am new to the forum as I am doing my homework as I am thinking of buying and installing a Hearthstone Homestead wood stove. Reading the comment I think that I am going to start looking at another brand.

Thanks

M

Welcome to the forum 26.2 Or Nothing. We have several forum members in your area and I am a bit west. We looked hard at the Hearthstone line as they have some beautiful stoves. We ended up buying a Woodstock Fireview and have been super happy all the way. Check those out on their website:

Woodstock Soaptone Stoves

I heat with a Heritage at my office. I love Hearthstone, so don't rule them out. I have a little gas Woodstock at home, and it is nice too. Both are good quality companies. I'm not experienced enough to say what is going on here, but there has to be a reason other than the inherent problems with a manufacturer.
 
I am going to guess this is a draft issue. If correct, a moderate increase in chimney height should show a marked improvement in stove performance at moderate outside temps.

Also, as a test, I would crack open a nearby window a half an inch to see if that affects how the stove burns. If it makes an improvement, the stove could need an outside air supply.
 
Ya. Don't give up on the Hearthstone....I fumbled and fussed with ours for almost 3 years until a few
weeks ago; I bit the bullet and had a new chimney install. It has made an amazing difference!!!!!
It would barely heat the room it was in and the smoke back-puffed constantly.... now it drafts
beautifully (no back-puffing!!) and the entire room is HOT--not just 3' in front of the stove.
Now I need to do some research on how to move all that beautiful heat around to the rest of the house.

The main difference of our new install is the height of the chimney... he added over 10' of pipe
outside.
 
I have the Heritage, just one small step up. Slightly deeper burn Chamber and 0.3 cu ft. more wood capacity. Probably just a side-loader version of the Homestead. But in the efficiency and emissions the ratings drop a little from the homestead to the heritage. I have 20 feet of new stovepipe and no outside air kit is installed. This subject from the OP got me curious...

This morning after an all night burn with outdoor temps in the teens fahrenheit my stove was still about 250 and the heated room 71. At 7am I stocked it and opened the air 100%. Within 15 minutes I had good flamage and knocked down the air to 50% and at 730am down to about 10%. At that time the stove was rockin about 450. I put the thermometer on the stovepipe about 18 inches about the flue exit and it was 350. I put the thermometer back on the center stove of the stove and now at 8 the stove is about 500 and the room airtemp near the opposite wall is 73. I'm throwing in another good sized log now. From experience I know the temp will temporarily drop about 25-50 degrees but will get to 500-550 within 20 mins and stay in that range for about 1.5 hours during the day time. I feed a good sized chunk about every other hour. At night its more like a little over an hour between feedings.

I live in a drafty farmhouse. The stove sits near the wall in the heated room that is about 290 sq ft. with immediate access to kitchen and my bedroom near the stove, and opposite the stove in the heated room is a large hallway. In other words, about another 450 sq ft is heated through airflow. I installed a 52inch ceiling fan near the stove that runs almost constantly on medium and low speeds. The three bedrooms that the hallway serves at heated by the propane boiler at night when the stove gets low, but throughout the day and active hours of the evening stays 60-65 degrees without the propane boiler.

I saw earlier in a post where the question was raised to the OP if he had any fans circulating the air, but I haven't seen the OP response yet. So I'm wondering if this simple fix of installing a ceiling fan would resolve the issue? His stove had about 85% the firebox as mine, but 90% of the BTU rating and I think it should be as effective at heating as mine in his more efficient home. No?
 
The flue makes or breaks any naturally aspirated solid fuel appliance. And, yes, I say this having learned the hard way. Having run the old triple wall, some off brand double wall uninsulated, and even worse.....I can say confidently that good quality insulated chimney (Selkirk, etc.) or insulated liner is even more important (gasp!) than wood moisture/species/vintage. Of course, using the aforementioned quality materials, following widely accepted conventions about chimney parameters is key as well.

Many modern EPA stoves are designed to burn lower, slower, and cleaner with less CFM going up the pipe. I must admit that I don't always appreciate the "restricter plate" approach to "safety" when it comes to these stoves.

I have heated with wood off and on for decades, and I have many good friends who have as well. Some of us are burning old smoke dragons, and others are using brand new designs. We live where it gets BUTT AZZ cold. Not one of us owns a moisture meter, and few of us have any thermometers, probes, or diagnositic software hooked up to our wood burning appliances. And NONE of us have a ten year supply of wood neatly palletized and certified at less than 14 percent moisture. We burn what we've got on hand (gasp again!) and not one of us has suffered adverse consequences other than more frequent chimney maintenance at times.

I'm probably about to be black listed on this forum for what I have uttered here, but I really do think it is all sound advice. Great forum overall with valid info for the most part, just frustrating to listen to some of this stuff over and over. Keep it simple. Cave men burned wood. You can do it. Don't over-analyze it to death, follow the basics, and sit back and enjoy the wonders of wood heat.
 
Heat shield of sheet metal blocks off the entry of the fireplace, rear discharge of the stove goes through this shield into the triple wall stove pipe that is about 15 feet tall. House has recently been remodeled with R30+ insulation in the ceiling, all new energy efficient windows and doors, exterior walls are 2X4 insulated covered with Tyvek, covered with foam insulation board covered with concrete Hardy board exterior siding. From everything we can tell, the house is very tight and no major leaks.

Could be a couple of clues here. First, you mention that the remodel which tightened up your house was recent. Super-tight houses can sometimes not provide enough air to the fire for proper combustion, and your description could indicate an air-starved fire. Try cracking a window in the stove room for a few minutes: if the fire begins to burn more briskly, consider adding Hearthstone's OA kit, which will enable you to supply combustion air directly to the fire from outside the house.

Second, your mention of triple-wall chimney seems to indicate that the fireplace you're venting into is a manufactured, zero clearance fireplace. If so, that chimney, which is barely tall enough to meet Hearthstone's minimum requirement for the Homestead, is air-cooled, and will not provide adequate draft for optimum performance. When venting a high-efficiency stove into an air-cooled chimney, an insulated stainless liner must be installed. Have a look behind that sheet metal heat shield that covers the front of your fireplace: the connector pipe should travel slightly uphill from the stove (1/4" per foot), and connect to a 6" stainless tee at the bottom of an insulated stainless liner extending all the way to the top of the chimney.
 
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