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”Osburn 1800i BayWood Fireplace Story” install in progress

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by 67ref, Dec 15, 2008.

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  1. 67ref

    67ref New Member

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    Hello all, I'm new around here, have been reading in the background for a little while.

    Tuesday our new insert goes in ... at least that is the lastest date I was given.
    they had to push my install date out a half a week due to them being overwhelmed with no-heat calls.

    So I was wondering if any good or bad feedback on the Osburn 1800i ?
    and if you'd like to comment on my current install in progress that would be great.

    It's a bit of a long story and many pics because I had a floor to straigthen out and
    had to move my furnace and ductwork out of the way in order to do the support.


    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/30052/

    for what it's worth, so far it's been a lot of fun,
    can't wait until the stove goes in and gets inspected a few days therafter.

    a bit in the dark as to how to operate correctly but I'm sure we'll figure that out when we get to it.
    from what I read it's a trail and error run until one gets good with it.

    can't wait to BURN and this time actually getting some heat out of it.


    Anything I should know ? comments/tips ?


    thanks in advance ...

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  2. 67ref

    67ref New Member

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    am I on everyone ingnore list already ?
  3. KateC

    KateC New Member

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    Hi----I'm in my third season with the same insert and honestly love it. I had a few difficulties with my dealer/installer that had me pulling my hair out but the stove itself is a gem. We have a small ranch, less than 1000sqft, insert in an exterior chimney in the livingroom/kitchen that makes up about half the house. Large main bedroom off the livingroom, short hallway down the middle with a small bathroom then a guest room at the end. In fall and spring the stove cooks us out easily but when it's consistently below 40 we need the furnace. Various experiments tell me that if the house were insulated better and the unfinished basement not keeping the floors so dang cold here we wouldn't need the furnace at all.

    So watch your installer carefully, insist on insulated liner and block-off plate, be patient learning that sweet stove and look at what you can do to keep the heat in the house. A bigger stove in my case would be alot more expensive and hassle than adding a few hundred bucks' worth of insulation here and there.

    Stick around---not many of us Osburn owners here and it would be nice to have more.
  4. 67ref

    67ref New Member

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    hi, thanks for the feedback.

    can you tell me what is the big deal with an "insulated" liner ?
    I asked about that and was told I wouldn't need it.

    It's an exterior 13.5 feet brick chimney.
  5. KateC

    KateC New Member

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    When they say you don't 'need' it usually it's that code doesn't require it and they don't want the hassle of extra work since the insulation wrap can make it more difficult to get the liner down the chimney. If you have an exterior chimney, you need it. All that brick outside will try to suck all the heat out of the liner otherwise and cool down your flue gasses which can lead to faster and nastier creosote build-up. My liner's insulated, I burn good dry wood the right way and have no creosote issues---never even a clogged cap. Really, just do it----you won't be sorry.
  6. 67ref

    67ref New Member

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    hmmm, I already bothered them once about this issue,
    perhaps it will need to discuss it again.


    thanks for the heads up.
  7. Shari

    Shari Minister of Fire

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    I second what Kate said: use an insulated liner. There are many reasons for this but specifically, in your installation being an exterior chimney, use it! If you follow postings in this forum you will find many posts where users had to remove their uninsulated liners and replace with insulated liners because they had draft or creosote problems. It's not worth the hassle to have to 'do over'. Even though I don't have a stove (yet) I will be installing an insulated liner and following all the good advise on this board.

    I've been following your rebuild - lookin' good so far!

    Shari
  8. 67ref

    67ref New Member

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    I don't get it ... just phoned two other places in our area whom specialize in fireplaces
    and I'm told I do not need an insulated liner down the chimney.

    yes the chimney is on the exterior side of the house but it is not just a pipe,
    it's a 8x12 clay flue brick chimney.

    I'm told I do not need a liner by dealers,
    this is not the first time I've been told I should get an insulated liner by folks other then installers/dealers.


    ~ confused.
  9. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Ford had a saying for prospective Model T owners - ask the man that owns one. I don't think you'll find anyone with an exterior chimney that regretted adding an insulated liner. However, you will find hundreds of people posting problems with poor draft, excess creosote accumulation, balky stoves, due to short, cold chimneys. The flue is half of the heating engine. A good flue is going to make the insert work better. Insulating the liner will go a long way towards addressing these issues. Once the liner is insulated, a block-off plate will keep the heat in the old firebox of the fireplace instead of heating up the flue. That translates into much more heat output from the insert.

    http://www.woodheat.org/chimneys/evilchim.htm
    http://www.woodheat.org/chimneys/chimneys.htm

    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Why_damper_seal_is_needed/
  10. Shari

    Shari Minister of Fire

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    67ref,

    Well..... hang in there. Others will respond to your posting here and I would bet that 90% of them will agree on the insulated liner. Installers are not users. Wait for more comments here in this thread or do a search for insulated liners in this message board.

    Shari
  11. KateC

    KateC New Member

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    Luckily my installer recommended it, but insisted I don't need a block-off plate, nor do I need the baffle above the firebrick inside the stove--the schmuck. I ended up calling another company to do the block-off and while they were here they found the first guy had buggered up the install in the first place and I needed a new liner---then he proceeded to tell me I shouldn't bother with insulation on the new one because I didn't 'need' it. I told him that maybe I didn't need it, but I wanted it anyway. Ended up dragging the first guy back to fix his mess and got a new insulated liner put in free but it's still frustrating dealing with these guys sometimes.
  12. Shari

    Shari Minister of Fire

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  13. 67ref

    67ref New Member

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    interesting facts alright.

    just finished reading an artical on insulation of liners.
    seems to me dealers/installers are not interested in ensuring that your chimney will not deteriorate over time.

    I'll have to insist on it I suppose.


    thank you !
    I appreciate the information.
  14. KateC

    KateC New Member

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    With the hassle it turned out to be re the original mess-up and getting them to make it right (I pretty much had to get in his face and yell), plus the additional time it would take since we were ready to burn AND no way would I trust him to do it right anyway, we settled for a soft block-off----alot of ceramic blanket stuffed up there and extra under the top plate. For now. That's made a huge difference but before next burn season starts I'll get a metal one in there if I have to do it myself, although I have yet to figure out how a 112lb middle-aged decrepit woman is gonna do that. I keep nagging my man though and hopefully he'll do it if only to shut me up.
  15. Cedrusdeodara

    Cedrusdeodara Member

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    The Napoleon insert that I put in this weekend has instructions on the installation/owners manual how and where to install a blockoff plate. I haven't done it yet but I plan to do in the next week or so. It didn't say it's a good idea, or "helps", and they didn't say I "should". It was actually part of the installation directions.

    Here's a link to my owners manual, the instructions are on the right side of page 7 in the manual.

    http://www.napoleonfireplace.com/Tech/installation_manuals/EPA.pdf

    My previous installer told me that I don't need it and shouldn't have one because it would result in a cooler flue. Note, I said "previous" installer.

    I don't think my homeowners insurance company would be too pleased to know that my insert was installed in any method other than what the was instructed in the owners manual. That is why I am putting one in.
  16. Rudyjr

    Rudyjr Feeling the Heat

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    If it is possible to put in an insulated ss liner I would without a doubt. In my case even though I had a lined 13x13 masonry chimney we would have been hard pressed to pull in an insulated liner due to two offsets. We had a heck of a time getting the 6 inch liner in. I did however pack rock wool in the throat of the damper and installed a block off plate as well as rock wool around the pipe under the cap. This seems to do a somewhat sufficient job in my case. Not putting in an insulated block off plate would be a total waste of heat up the chimney IMO.
  17. Cedrusdeodara

    Cedrusdeodara Member

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    BTW, I just removed an Osburn 1800i. Page 14 on their instruction manual states:

    "e) means must be provided to prevent room air passage to the chimney cavity of the fireplace. This may be accomplished by sealing the damper area around the chimney liner, or sealing the fireplace front"

    It sounds like you need to have a blockoff plate too if you want to conform with Osburns instructions (or maybe insulate with kaowool around the back of the surround and between surround and insert to seal the fireplace front????). I don't know why these installers just ignore that part of the instructions. I'm sure the surround by itself does not constitute "sealing the fireplace front", because that is standard equipment on these stoves.

    Hope this helps.
    Brian
  18. Rudyjr

    Rudyjr Feeling the Heat

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    Any HVAC supply house in your area will carry pan material 24 or 26 gauge galvanized sheet metal. The piece I bought was 17x36 roughly and cost less than 6 dollars. You can make a template from good heavy cardboard that should fit in the top of the firebox. Then transfer the template with a Sharpie to the metal. Add about an inch and a half on four sides and these will be your flanges that you bend down to attach it with. Very simple to do the material cuts easily with sheet metal shears.
  19. KateC

    KateC New Member

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    Unfortunately I didn't find this website until after the stove was in and since then I've had to argue with everybody about everything since they all seem to be know-it-alls of different schools. Seriously, this site should be required reading (with subsequent exam) for all dealers, installers, and users.
  20. Cedrusdeodara

    Cedrusdeodara Member

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    Kate,
    You're not alone. I'm getting it right after the 3rd time. Even having to swap stoves within 2 month period. Removing/insulating/replacing flu, Installing a blockoff plate.

    I found this site about 2 months too late. I should've done the whole thing myself from jump street and it would have been right the 1st time.

    Brian
  21. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    To clear up a little confusion about block-off plates: If one checks the manual it should say that a block off plate is required when there isn't a full, continuous chimney liner. It's required when one direct connects; that is just installs a short stub pipe off the stove to above the first flue tile.

    From Napoleon's Manual:

    In the United States: While it is not required, it is recommended
    that a chimney liner be installed that is continuous
    from the insert to the top of the chimney, particularly when the
    insert is installed in a basement. For this type of connection,
    use the “In Canada” installation instructions above.

    In the United States, continued:
    If a continuous liner is not installed, a “direct flue connection”
    must be made. The direct flue connection requires a
    non-combustible connector that extends from the insert into
    the chimney flue liner and also that the installed flue cover
    be sealed below the entry point of the connector to prevent
    dilution of combustion products in the chimney flue with air
    from inside the house. Cap the top of the chimney using an
    approved rain cap
  22. JJMorrocco

    JJMorrocco New Member

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    I own an Osburn 1800 for the past three years. It has been excellent. Of course similar install problems, this seems quite common. The bay window really adds to it, and makes it look more like a fireplace than a wood stove.

    Takes a bit to get used to short log lengths, and its realtive small box size. The only other issue is a fan that can be a bit noisy, when you turn it up, but it sure pumps the heat.

    I also added a gas insert (Napoleon) in my basement fireplace. I originally wanted two wood burners but the salesman convinced me to go with gas in the basement. Kids now use the basement and with a flick of the switch are kept toasty warm. Best idea a salesman has ever made to me. Unfortunately for him his unit didn't have the look I was going for.
  23. international5288

    international5288 Member

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    You have done a beautiful job so far with the hearth rehab, it would be a shame if you didn't "finish the job" by installing a blockoff plate and insulate the liner. To echo what others have said, and what I have posted in another thread or two, I have made major mistakes getting my insert up and running. Mistake #1 was listening to my dealer and chimney inspector when they said I didn't need a blockoff or insulation. Mistake #2 was not finding this forum earlier. I have a 20' exterior chimney with a 13x13 flue. Taking what the local "experts" said as gospel I just ran the liner down, connected it to the stove and started burning. 2 months later I feel like a moron because I'm having to re-do everything. Lets consider some basic physics. If you don't have a blockoff, where is all the heat from the back of the stove going to go? That's right, up inside the chimney. Where's the heat go after that? To the great outdoors! Now, what happens when you are disappointed with the heat output, and install a blockoff? Well, first the room will be a lot warmer. IF you can get the stove to run, because now that uninsulated liner is hanging inside a stone-cold chimney and your draft has disappeared! The liner simply does NOT have enough mass to heat up by itself. It HAS to be insulated. Don't repeat my mistakes!! :)
  24. Cedrusdeodara

    Cedrusdeodara Member

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    BeGreen,

    Wow, good point, after further review, Nepoleon had an asterick next to the instruction, when I read the asterick is said "We recommend the following method of sealing off the damper area around the liner". OK, so the installers have an OUT. I don't know if a similar footnote exists in Osburns manual.

    I still wish I had followed the manufacturers instructions and not paid my lame installer. I actually swapped out stoves (and paid more $$$), when I MAY have been OK with an insulation around the liner and a blockoff plate with the original Osburn 1800i.

    Anyway, I know if I decide to go into the stove/insert sales and installation what I would do....... HIGHLY recommend both an insulated flu kit AND a blockoff plate AND I would explain upfront why my estimate costs include such "add ons". Its a shame that this sale/install buisiness is so successful right now that those involved don't seem to cover all these bases and we are forced to learn after the fact from great sites like this one..

    Brian
  25. DeePee

    DeePee Member

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    I checked the manual for the Osburn 2200 and there is no mention of a block-off plate, however they do recommend an insulated liner on an exterior chimney.

    I've been burning 24/7 in the 2200 since Dec 1 and its been working really well for me. I suspect I may have excessive draft, but I'm trying to debug technique before deciding. The only problem I've had with it so far is that it only had about 50% of the first coat of paint on it when I received it, lots of bare metal. A can of touch-up paint has been dispatched and I'll undertake that in the spring. The unit is putting out a lot of heat, airwash works well and despite the paint issue, it looks really nice. If you plan on using the insert as a considerable portion of your heat supply, you might want to look at a humidifier as it became incredibly dry after a few days of burning.

    Where abouts in Ontario are you?

    Best regards,
    DP
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