I recently installed an Englander 10-CPM multi fuel pellet stove. Upon the first startup the stove vibrated like crazy and I could feel it on the floor as well. The vibration died down once the stove started to get up to temperature. After that, I hear and feel a thump every 8-10 seconds. From what I've read this is from the air pump for the igniter. I can feel it coming from behind the stove near the bottom in a tray looking bracket mounted to the back of the underside. Each time it pulses it jolts the floor a bit. I tried tightening all the bolts/screes on the exterior and it didn't help much. The rear access panel seems to vibrate along with it each time. If I put pressure with my hand on the bracket I'm speaking of it's a lot less noticable. My wife was really bummed out when she got home and was asking if it's really supposed to be that loud on startup and thump on ever 10 second cycle. To be honest, I'm kind of bummed out too. The fan noise is very tollerable and no louder than our wall cadet heater on full blast. Otherwise, the stove was easy to install and looks great. Anybody have any tips so I don't regret the purchase and try to take it back for something else?
10-CPM loud startup and repeating thump
- Thread starter stiguy04
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SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
The air pump should only be on during ignition, not while running, IIRC.
That leaves two things that rotate and may be binding against something on a timed basis, the feed auger and the burn pot stirrer.
Call ESW
That leaves two things that rotate and may be binding against something on a timed basis, the feed auger and the burn pot stirrer.
Call ESW
woodmakesheat
Feeling the Heat
This is normal operation. The initial sustained vibration is the air pump running to provide air across the igniter and it goes off after 10 minutes or so as you noted. The periodic thump is the air pump pulsing to keep the igniter tube clear of pellets. I found it annoying at first, now I don't notice it.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
funflyer
Burning Hunk
X2...I'm from the old school where less is more and if it makes noise eventually it will need replacing. Not to worry though, the parts will probably be available for decades.
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
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Bioburner
Moderator
Hmmm, hand sanitizer will soon have to be registered sale because of you pyros.
Snowy Rivers
Minister of Fire
I tend to agree on the excess equipment not needed just to burn pellets.
I toss a hand full of pellets in the pot, start the draft fan, then hit the thing with my propane torch.
I close the door as far as possible to allow the draft fan to take care of any smoke.
Once the pellets are lit, close the door and turn on the feed.
Within a minute or so we're good to go and the nut shells are feeding onto the burning coals of the startup pellets.
I used to buy the Starter gel by the 5 gallon pail, but that got old and $$$$
We keep a stock of the fat little propane bottles handy and the torch just gets packed from one stove to the other.
Maybe use 1 bottle for the entire season.
Snowy
I toss a hand full of pellets in the pot, start the draft fan, then hit the thing with my propane torch.
I close the door as far as possible to allow the draft fan to take care of any smoke.
Once the pellets are lit, close the door and turn on the feed.
Within a minute or so we're good to go and the nut shells are feeding onto the burning coals of the startup pellets.
I used to buy the Starter gel by the 5 gallon pail, but that got old and $$$$
We keep a stock of the fat little propane bottles handy and the torch just gets packed from one stove to the other.
Maybe use 1 bottle for the entire season.
Snowy
Bioburner
Moderator
Took two years to use a quart of charcoal starting fluid to start a couple stoves with the method I use.
Woodmakesheat did you make any efforts to reduce vibrations and rattles on the stove? Do you guys know if all esw stoves with auto ignite run the same way? Honestly, manually starting a flame would be worth the work to avoid the auto ignite system and thump cycle of that's even possible without damaging the stove in the long run.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Hmmm, charcoal starting fluid will soon have to be registered sale because of you pyro's....... LOL
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Your stove has an air pump so it can auto start corn and other non wood pellet fuel.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Lets really muddy the water..... I've always started my stove (burning pellets or pellets and corn or corn only) on hand sanitizer and a match...lol
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Yeah, but I bet you didn't let your air flow get messed up big time like some on here do.
Ok so that being said, when running in pellet mode can it be disabled? I did double check and its not in corn or cherry mode. For the most part I have the best access to pellets in my area. Occasionally I will access to cheap corn and cherry pits, one of the reasons we went multifuel. I suppose if it's something we just can't live with I could return for another ESW model that isn't multifuel.
SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
Bioburner
Moderator
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
I'd call ESW and ask them since I don't see mention of doing such a thing in the manual. After all that is one of the reasons they provide support. Don't try it without asking first as I can't from the exploded diagram see if that pump is the only source of air for the igniter. If it is then you will in all likely hood have a stove that won't light and a fried igniter.
Agreed, I will give them a call and let you all know what they say.
woodmakesheat
Feeling the Heat
I will look to see if it can be mounted in rubber as it seems to resonate on a plate of steel, thus making a drum like low frequency thud. You do get used to it and I don't even notice it any longer. Just like I barely hear my humidifier cycling on and off which used to annoy me.
I'm guessing that only the multi-fuel does this as Smokey has noted it's for igniting corn.
If you wanted to manual ignite, you could likely just unplug the air-pump from the control board - I don't think the stove would notice otherwise. The only issue might be pellet ash getting into the igniter tube. Removing the igniter and/or just blocking the opening with a piece of metal might work too. Edit: you'd also have to disconnect the igniter!
I am not sure why your thread attracted the silliness, I know this is an annoying issue and your questions are serious. I also asked Mike @ESW about a post he made here suggesting he knew of "tricks" to quiet the pump, but he was too busy to respond and he only helped the other person via PM. I'd like to know these "tricks" as well, so if you get a response, PM me with said knowledge.
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SidecarFlip
Minister of Fire
I believe ya. I can tellyyou for sure that I have to use an inordinate amount of Coffee Mate in my coffee in the morning after the wife brews it.....
I spoke to ESW this morning. I was told that the air pump is required on this stove to serve two purposes. 1. Ignite the fuel and 2. keep the igniter clear so it doesn't melt the tube. The guy I spoke to, not Mike Holton and I already forgot his name, said that the only trick he knows of is to wedge something in the rear where the bracket for the airpump is. This makes sense, because if I put pressure on it with my hand the sound/vibration is reduced. I asked if I could disable the pump and he said I would have to remove the igniter so it doesn't melt the tube and would have to manually ignite. He couldn't really answer my quesiton of how to keep the igniter in place without using the air pump. Afterall, I believe the non multifuel ESW stoves do not have the air pump. I would think it could work similarly without the airpump and still ignite the fuel if it was just wood pellet. I looked at the exploded diagrams of the CPM and the a few non multifuel stoves from ESW and they look like they run the same igniter setup minus the airpump. I might email or call back another time and see if somebody else has anything differnet to say. He had to put me on hold to ask somebody else. I hear Mike Holton is the all mighty guru, I sent him an email a few days ago before posting on hearth and didn't hear back yet. Is he still around here or with ESW?
I will say the stove did a great job last night. Compared to where some of you guys live, we had what you might call mild temps last night at 33 degrees. On 1 heat and 4 blower it heated up the living room and carried down to our bedroom with the door open quite nicely. We have ranch style home which is very rectangular. Bedrooms at one end and living room on opposite with ceiling fan going. The fine tune settings were left at factory 1-4-1. I notice if I drop to 1-3-1 the flame gets taller and the air blowing isn't as warm. 1-5-1 creates too much air on the flame and I think it's pushing more out the exhaust. I like keeping the first setting on 1 to reduce the pellet feed rate. If I want it warmer I just bump up the heat range to 2 or 5 until it reaches a good temp in the house. I tested it at 9 heat and 9 blower and it got too warm really quick. I'm looking forward to making this thing quieter and more enjoyable!
I will say the stove did a great job last night. Compared to where some of you guys live, we had what you might call mild temps last night at 33 degrees. On 1 heat and 4 blower it heated up the living room and carried down to our bedroom with the door open quite nicely. We have ranch style home which is very rectangular. Bedrooms at one end and living room on opposite with ceiling fan going. The fine tune settings were left at factory 1-4-1. I notice if I drop to 1-3-1 the flame gets taller and the air blowing isn't as warm. 1-5-1 creates too much air on the flame and I think it's pushing more out the exhaust. I like keeping the first setting on 1 to reduce the pellet feed rate. If I want it warmer I just bump up the heat range to 2 or 5 until it reaches a good temp in the house. I tested it at 9 heat and 9 blower and it got too warm really quick. I'm looking forward to making this thing quieter and more enjoyable!
SmokeyTheBear
Minister of Fire
Below is the reply I received via email regarding the airpump. I get it... they both serve a purpose and it sounds like it is possible, but is it worth the trouble? Maybe for some people. Or if it's that big of a deal, get a different stove that doesn't operate like this. I suppose that's the moral of the story. I kind of want to write back asking about how their non multifuel stoves are setup. As I recall, they don't utilize an airpump and still auto ignite right? I think I would just end up frustrating them if I continued on. The only thing I can think of to operate the stove without either would require plugging the hole with something that will resist the heat like woodmakesheat said.
"If you disconnect the airpump, the stove will not automatically light because there wont be any air going through the ignitor sleeve. Therefore, the heat will be too hot and possibly melt the sleeve its in. If you want to disconnect the air pump, you would have to disconnect the ignitor also. To be quite technical, you shouldnt use the stove without the airpump because it helps push air onto the firebox and keep the ignitor hole clear."
"If you disconnect the airpump, the stove will not automatically light because there wont be any air going through the ignitor sleeve. Therefore, the heat will be too hot and possibly melt the sleeve its in. If you want to disconnect the air pump, you would have to disconnect the ignitor also. To be quite technical, you shouldnt use the stove without the airpump because it helps push air onto the firebox and keep the ignitor hole clear."
Has anyone played with isolating the air pump or finding a way to quiet it down? I love the stove but it's a little annoying at times.
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