10-CPM loud startup and repeating thump
- Thread starter stiguy04
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
I was holding back on any modifications until I could determine how necessary the pump was. Now I'm torn on whether to keep the stove and see what the best way to reduce the noise and vibration is or trade it back for something else without the pump. I don't need multi fuel. It was more of a backup plan if wood pellets were tough to get or expensive.
I did jam a rubber dog Kong under the bracket between the floor base of the stove and its less rattley. I think the rear service panel could greatly benefit from some sort of foam tape (if safe) or high temp insulation where it sits against the rear. Heck, even cramming an insulating material in the area of the air pump may work too. I just don't have the materials on hand to test. What's interesting is if I hold the pump still it's less noticeable, yet it's mount on rubber pedestals that allow it to jolt pretty harsh. I'm sure the thump is transfer through my body though.
What kind of ideas have you guys thought of with this stove?
I did jam a rubber dog Kong under the bracket between the floor base of the stove and its less rattley. I think the rear service panel could greatly benefit from some sort of foam tape (if safe) or high temp insulation where it sits against the rear. Heck, even cramming an insulating material in the area of the air pump may work too. I just don't have the materials on hand to test. What's interesting is if I hold the pump still it's less noticeable, yet it's mount on rubber pedestals that allow it to jolt pretty harsh. I'm sure the thump is transfer through my body though.
What kind of ideas have you guys thought of with this stove?
woodmakesheat
Feeling the Heat
I"ve never looked back there, I didn't realize the pump was already mounted in rubber. My stove is minimum distance from back wall, so it's not easy for me to just look in there yet. So, I'm learning from your posts
Is it ok to post links? If so here is a good picture I found online. http://www.heatredefined.com/assets/images/products/2903/bottom-auger__product.jpgI"ve never looked back there, I didn't realize the pump was already mounted in rubber. My stove is minimum distance from back wall, so it's not easy for me to just look in there yet. So, I'm learning from your posts
Maybe some insulating material between the bracket for the pump and the stove would be beneficial too?
I've tried a ton of different things with my pump. None of them ever solve the problem permanently. Some days it's really loud and others I can't even hear it pumping.
Question though...
They claim if we don't run the pump it could cause the igniter tube to collapse. Can this really be possible? Is one tiny pump of room temp air every 5 seconds really enough to keep a pipe like that cooled after hours and hours of firing?
I never considered disconnecting it completely but after reading up to this point I feel that's definitely a possibility now. I'll just manually fire the stove every time after cleaning.
The burn pot is getting most of its air from the OAK anyway so the pump should really have nothing to do with keeping the fire going anyway.
Question though...
They claim if we don't run the pump it could cause the igniter tube to collapse. Can this really be possible? Is one tiny pump of room temp air every 5 seconds really enough to keep a pipe like that cooled after hours and hours of firing?
I never considered disconnecting it completely but after reading up to this point I feel that's definitely a possibility now. I'll just manually fire the stove every time after cleaning.
The burn pot is getting most of its air from the OAK anyway so the pump should really have nothing to do with keeping the fire going anyway.
I think their point is that it the air also pushes the pellets out and away from the tube, thus preventing it from cooking up or plugging. But still... isn't the igniter tube/sleeve made of steel? I took a look at mine tonight and the igniter is right there at the end of the tube near the burn pot. Does the igniter need the air on startup to keep the heat "blowing" into the burn pot instead of just sitting in the sleeve baking it? I just don't see what their concern is. Also, without trying it, why can't the igniter self start wood pellets? Maybe it's a different type of igniter for multi fuel purpose. They sell other stoves that self ignite and don't have an airpump. I want mine to function exactly like that, even if means I can't burn corn or cherry pits when the pump isn't firing off.
I would love to get a thermostat for it to better regulate temps in the house. There is no way though I could use it on the setting where it turns off and back on automatically as the thermostat settings are reached. We would all wake up in the middle of the night to rumbling haha. So many questions and each time I've called or emailed ESW I keep getting the same response I posted earlier.
I'm with you. I got the multi fuel for the flexibility in case corn or cherry pits get really cheap. I've burned nothing but pellets so far and don't plan on changing that anytime soon either.
In theory we could just disconnect the pump for pellet use then reconnect it if and when we need to switch to multi. Just be sure to clean out the igniter tube also.
Anyone out there running it like this? Or tried it and maybe burned your house down and can tell us to beware?!
In theory we could just disconnect the pump for pellet use then reconnect it if and when we need to switch to multi. Just be sure to clean out the igniter tube also.
Anyone out there running it like this? Or tried it and maybe burned your house down and can tell us to beware?!
I read your other posts and I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. The glass gets dirty the same as you, but it doesn't bother me too much. I just wipe it off, I was actually surprised with how easy it was to wipe. It dirtied up really fast and I was worried it may have baked onto the glass. Simple enough... my blower is fairly quiet and I didn't have the auger sound. Just the air pump, which is what I think anybody with this stove experiences anyway. Frankly...I'm surprised it's not mentioned in the manual. It seems like a potential deal breaker. Have you considered returning your stove for another englander? I was looking at the IP series. It's nice looking and from what I read it is the same type of heat box. I looked at the exploded diagram and thank goodness no airpump on the parts list. I have no idea if lowes will take a return on this, but if I'm not satisfied yet. The benefit I saw of returning for another model of the same brand is the location of the exhaust. I won't have to get any flex pipe or elbows, it should slide right into the same location. The OAK is flexible enough to reach where it needs to go.
We bought ours online. It would probably be a major hassle to return it. Not to mention I've already had it now for 4 months. I doubt they would even take it back.
Also, I'm stubborn as hell. I won't let this thing beat me. I'll figure it all out or I'll go insane trying and take a sledge hammer to it. Then I'll buy another!
Also, I'm stubborn as hell. I won't let this thing beat me. I'll figure it all out or I'll go insane trying and take a sledge hammer to it. Then I'll buy another!
Let me know if you try to unplug that airpump. Like I said earlier, I'm kind of in limbo right now and not making any mods/changes until I'm 100% sure I'm keeping it. I wish Mike from ESW would chime in. I know it's a busy time of the year but I have a feeling he would have an answer right up our alley!
Here are a few more replies from ESW. So I think we are stuck with the airpump connected and find the best way to silent it....or we disconnect the pump and igniter. I don't know why, but they sound pretty sure that the tube or sleeve will melt without the air pulses...seems crazy to me but whatever.
"The air pump is the only way this particular stove will light using the ignitor. However, If you decide you would like to disconnect the air pump you can manually light the stove with no harm to the stove. The air pump is a little noisy with that thumping noise. The other model stoves without the air pump have a different type of ignitor that doesnt require the pump."
When I asked about installing an ignitor from another stove that doesn't use the air pump and will it really melt stuff:
"No, it will not fit because its not big enough. Yes it can happen. the air pump blows air into there to keep it cool to prevent that."
Personally, I think it's a design flaw but maybe that is what keeps the cost down. I'm not in their shoes so I don't know. I would be 100% satisfied if the pump only ran during ignition for tough fuels and was done with it's job. Why not make the tube or sleeve more heat resistant?
woodmakesheat
Feeling the Heat
Read today that the Harman multi-fuel has an air-pump, so it's not just an Englander thing.
I reached back there today while stove was cool for weekly cleaning. Yep, nice soft rubber mounts pump to bracket. The problem is the bracket is mounted to a piece of sheet metal that is essentially a drum. I banged it a couple of times and sure enough, it rings like a woofer. Options are to 1) stiffen the sheet metal that it mounts to so it doesn't resonate like a drum 2) isolate the pump bracket from the stove bottom with rubber mounts 3) relocate the pump bracket to a stiffer part of the stove. The way it's mounted now may not be ideal
I reached back there today while stove was cool for weekly cleaning. Yep, nice soft rubber mounts pump to bracket. The problem is the bracket is mounted to a piece of sheet metal that is essentially a drum. I banged it a couple of times and sure enough, it rings like a woofer. Options are to 1) stiffen the sheet metal that it mounts to so it doesn't resonate like a drum 2) isolate the pump bracket from the stove bottom with rubber mounts 3) relocate the pump bracket to a stiffer part of the stove. The way it's mounted now may not be ideal
Last edited:
Bioburner
Moderator
Can't imagine why other stove manufactures can shut the igniter and pump down after startup and not Englander? I have three stoves that use a pump to light corn. The Bixby is an extreme ignition cycle when switched to corn mode using two 500 watt igniters with the air pump going. I've had not had any starting issues in the five seasons I have had it.
woodmakesheat
Feeling the Heat
The pump fires periodically to keep the tube clear as it is open to the bottom of the burnpot. Also, I guess the heat there is too much for the thin outer sheathing of the air passage around the ingiter heater.
Bioburner
Moderator
I totally agree with your findings. The bracket itself isn't that solid either. I can push up on it with my hand and lessen the amount of movement it's allowed. Currently, I have something wedged between the bottom part of the braket and the stove bottom. It firms up the pump bracket pretty good, but it's just a quick temporary solution and I think there is more sound to reduce. I want to try option 2 and use some sort of rubber material or gasket between the bracket and stove frame. Here is a great shot of it from ESW's website. http://www.heatredefined.com/assets/images/products/2903/bottom-auger__product.jpg I just don't know if there is anything super solid under there that won't flex. Perhaps a piece of steel to help reinforce where if bolts up to the frame, your option 1. I even thought about packing insulation around the pump, although I'm worried about heat and electrical interferences. The panels on my stove all need some isolation as well. At certain speeds of the blower I get some rattling with the rear access panel. Some foam tape should take care of that thoguh. It's not too hot to touch on the rear of mine.
Is rubber isolation the way to go? I was reading on other threads on hearth and somebody made a comment that you want to do the opposite. Instead of giving it more wiggle room with rubber gaskets you should firm it up solid. I kind of get what they meant. I would have to try either way to see what I like better.
Maybe you've already done this, but it never hurts to ask...what about pulling the back cover off the stove? I can hear my pump run every few seconds, but it's not annoying. Now...the back cover on the other hand...rattle city.
I could and probably will. I just left it on for our County permit inspection and haven't had time to loosen the exchaust and OAK connections to pop it up. Unfortunately, mine has 2 holes that need to be slid over the exhaust vent and OAK first before securing to the stove. What's ironic is that there is a plate for each "port" that attaches to the rear panel. If I remove the plates from the panel it allows me to slide the large service panel up and over off the stove through 2 notches cut straight through the bottom. The 2 plates are let behind unless I disconnect the vents....
If you put a little foam insulation all the way around the back panel it will quiet it right away. I got this thin stuff from HD and it worked perfectly.
So I also decided to try something that was recommended by others. I start the stove with the pump and igniter then once the startup procedure is completed I disconnect them and run the stove without either connected. If my house burns down or the stove explodes I'll let you guys know. I'm under the understanding that the pump is more for corn than anything else so as long as I'm running pellets I'm not overly concerned. Irony believe that the steel that houses the igniter is going to melt or move at all with the heat from the stove. We'll see.
I also had a block of 2X4 wedged under the frame of the pump. It works well but eventually moves and the noise comes back. I also wedged a 2X4 under the convection fan and that helped a lot too.
So I also decided to try something that was recommended by others. I start the stove with the pump and igniter then once the startup procedure is completed I disconnect them and run the stove without either connected. If my house burns down or the stove explodes I'll let you guys know. I'm under the understanding that the pump is more for corn than anything else so as long as I'm running pellets I'm not overly concerned. Irony believe that the steel that houses the igniter is going to melt or move at all with the heat from the stove. We'll see.
I also had a block of 2X4 wedged under the frame of the pump. It works well but eventually moves and the noise comes back. I also wedged a 2X4 under the convection fan and that helped a lot too.
- Status