2 Questions: Basement storage, Tree length time till it rots

[Heaterhunter]

I've got about a cord of wood ready to be stacked in the basement but I've been told to wait for a couple of good frosts to kill the bugs off before putting in the basement but I don't want to wait that long. Will I have pest problems if I put the wood in now, or is there some remedy for this problem? Also I have an oppurtunity to get tree length hardwood for $50/cord, I just pay trucking to my house. Seems like a good deal to me, I was thinking about getting 20 cord. That's about 4-5 years worth of wood for me, will it last 4-5 years stacked tree length?

 

[joefrompa]

If it's off the ground, it'll last 4-5 years in tree length unless it's an easy-rot wood.

Putting wood down in your basement is not a good idea if it needs to season. If it's already seasoned, then there won't be nearly as many bugs in it. If it's seasoned, maybe spray it with some insect barrier/killer (I like Ortho's Home Defense), let it sit for a few more days, then move it down.

Wet wood has more of a pest problem than seasoned wood.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

My neighbor had carpenetr ants in his house from just stacking wood that leaned against it. I only put enough wood for the week that has been seasoned. I get freaked about the possibility of me causing an infestation in my home. So the wood stays about 30 yards from it until it is going to burn. Maybe I am paranoid but I don't like bugs!

 

[pen]

here is a link to a thread from a few months back where I show why I don't recommend seasoning firewood in the house.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/73085/

While any wood can have critters, the chance increases if the wood is not completely seasoned. If the wood is completely seasoned and dry then there is a much smaller chance of having a problem since seasoned wood isn't much of a food source to anything but termites.

pen

 

[velvetfoot]

Last time I put wood in the garage was in the spring/summer too. I got a lot of powder post beetles and spiders but nothing else, thankfully. The beetles made small holes in the bare pine window trim. I have no idea about their life cycle, but there's probably an optimum time for each different critter.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I've got about a cord of wood ready to be stacked in the basement but I've been told to wait for a couple of good frosts to kill the bugs off before putting in the basement but I don't want to wait that long. Will I have pest problems if I put the wood in now, or is there some remedy for this problem? Also I have an oppurtunity to get tree length hardwood for $50/cord, I just pay trucking to my house. Seems like a good deal to me, I was thinking about getting 20 cord. That's about 4-5 years worth of wood for me, will it last 4-5 years stacked tree length?

A couple of good frosts won't kill off the bugs. Keeping the wood dry will and the best way to get it dry is to split it, stack it out in the open where wind will hit the sides of the stacks. Air circulation and evaporation is what you need. Wind provides one and sun provides the other. If you have to choose between the two, choose the wind. You will not get that in a cool and damp basement.

How long will that tree length wood keep without rotting? It all depends upon how you store it. I've seen wood over 10 years in the stack and it burns rather nicely. We routinely burn wood that is 6-7 years in the stack.

If you buy in log lengths I'd highly advise you lay two down on the ground and then stack the rest on those two. Kept off the ground wood can last an amazingly long time. In contact with the ground though and it will rot rather quickly and also will tend to get ants and other bugs. Even when stacking after splitting, I lay down some poles that I cut in the woods. This keeps the firewood off the ground and also allows air circulation under the wood. Here is one example of some wood that was stacked 2 years ago in April. I had to break into that wood this past winter but there should be enough left there for another 2 years. If not, we have more stacked in other spots. All total, about 5 years worth. We do not worry about it rotting either.

Notice there is nothing covering the wood. That wood was left like that until November of that year and then we covered it with old galvanized roofing. It is important to cover only the top of the stack and never cover the sides or ends. Let it breath; just keep the snow off.

 

[dougstove]

Wood in the basement can cause long-lasting mildew odour problems.
I know someone who stored about 1/4 cord of wet maple in a basement, 20 years ago.
The basement has never flooded and is kept at 35% humidity (honest), but items stored there still smell like mildew.

 

[ruserious2008]

Posted this before in other threads but you asked

"As a real estate agent I hear home inspectors rant about this if they see wood inside or even close to a building. I remember one home where the owner had this huge basement with 12 ft ceilings-walk out style- and he had a wood boiler in that basement. He stored 4-5 cords of wood in there and when I listed the house told him a home inspector might red flag that but being the old timer that he was he said pfft been doing this all my life
Well long story/short buyers moved in before closing on a rental agreement, tore up the floor above where the wood was stored to install hardwood floors and ta da! Termites! Big time. They were not visible from the basement so the home inspector did not find them but they had eaten sub flooring and most of an 16 ft section of 2x6 wall and the sills below it. Many dollars later….....is the moral of the story. "

And I think its fair to say you're not going to kill off the bugs with wood getting a few freezes or even spending a whole winter outdoors. Bugs are designed to live thru that- that's why we have still bugs in cold climates

 

[CTYank]

There have been many documented cases of extensive damage to houses caused by moisture in minimally-dried firewood brought indoors; this is especially a threat in a tightly-sealed house.

I'd suggest drying it as possible outdoors, and only bringing it indoors gradually after the start of the heating season. That implies doing things like the pros outdoors- keeping wood protected from rain. Forget the wives' tales about uncovered stacks outdoors. Stacking near a stove can drive out much moisture- caution advised.

Can someone define "seasoned wood" please? So that it can be quantified. Lots of people toss this pearl around like they used to with "America's prestige" as if they KNEW. Maybe there's some "warm & fuzzy" aspect to it that appeal to them. It's a safe bet that most all "seasoned wood" has lower MC than on the stump, but nowhere close to being ready for an EPA-spec stove. IOW, "seasoned wood" is an oxymoron.

OTOH, there's objective meaning to something like "x% MC" so long as it's specified as wet or dry basis. (You can have MC > 100%, dry-basis.) Some will preach that 25% MC is the threshold of optimum. Local experimentation says that < 10% is a marked improvement- a real case of "less is more."

Just trying to head over the void towards truth here.

About the "log-length" IME it's better to buck them to length and stack (off ground, loose covered top, exposed to sun & wind) since that'll get drying going, thus providing less support for fungi & insects. Might be a safety bonus to you in starting the bucking before the pile gets to be a mountain, assuming delivery will take some time.

 

[Oldmainer]

Hi heaterhunter...I have a 28' by 56' ranch here in southern Maine. The basement walls are poured concrete as well as the floor. I have stacked about three cords of hard wood in my basement every summer and I run a dehumidifier to control humidity. I run the machine on high and it takes about three weeks for the number of pints I pull out of the air to fall off. At that point the wood is pretty dry and ready to burn when needed. I spray the wood lightly with Home Defense to control insects...which have never been a problem for me. Oldmainer

 

[woodsmaster]

I had post powder beetles in my damp crawl space I assume from fire wood. I had to replace some floor joists and sheeting, and spray every thing with borax to kill them. It wasn't fun or cheap.

 

[ruserious2008]

CTYank asked "Can someone define “seasoned wood†please?"
Hmmm what a question. I don't know this as fact but I think I read somewhere in my state of NH that there is a law that says it has to be cut and split for either 7 or 9 months before it can be called seasoned. That, certainly for hardwoods, would not give you anything that should be burnt right away. Wonder if other states have such laws? anyone? The term "seasoning" I'm ok with as its the process of letting it sit split and drying.
But CT if I I've learned anything in my first year of burning is that the term "seasoned" is a useless term or at least a totally misused term and I've concluded the only reliable conclusion I should take from someone calling wood "seasoned" is that it no longer has active roots growing into the ground! I think the term "Dry" or "Ready to safely burn" would make more sense.
Wish I had asked that question before I bought my first load of wood last year but by the good graces of a nice CL score from a moving homeowner with a cord of 3 year wood and some eco-bricks I got thru the winter ok.
My yard now has - about 5 cords of pine split and stacked and working on another 5 (free), about 4 cords of mixed hardwood I bought for $400 of 3 year wood from someone that gave up on burning that with the pine will be my 2012-13 wood,about 2 cords of apple (free) that will be a start on my 2013-14 wood as well as 3 cords of Ash (free) that's been down over a year and should be ready for my 2013 wood. More scrounging planned for the summer with my goal of having my wood cut and stacked for 4 years out that will be dry and ready to burn for the "seasoned" citizen at the needed time

 

[ikessky]

I leave my wood out to season for 1+ years. I only move the wood to my basement in the late fall and try to get it as close to the first snow as possible. Even then, after all the wood is, I put two dehumidifiers and a box fan in that room for at least a week. I get a "woodsy" smell for a week or two, but never a musty/mildew smell. I really think the key is to leave it outside to season for as long as a person can.

 

[Intheswamp]

Hi heaterhunter...I have a 28' by 56' ranch here in southern Maine. The basement walls are poured concrete as well as the floor. I have stacked about three cords of hard wood in my basement every summer and I run a dehumidifier to control humidity. I run the machine on high and it takes about three weeks for the number of pints I pull out of the air to fall off. At that point the wood is pretty dry and ready to burn when needed. I spray the wood lightly with Home Defense to control insects...which have never been a problem for me. Oldmainer

Om, I have a few questions...

Is the wood freshly cut green, standing dead, aged for a year outside, ...???

What species of hardwood are you putting in your basement?

Are you saying that the wood is ready to burn in 3 weeks simply by running the dehumidifier?

I'm just curious as I'm interested in speeding up the drying process myself.

Ed

 

[Heaterhunter]

Thanks for all of your input. Very helpful. I think I will spray my piles with Ortho a few days before just to attempt to eliminate pest problems. It soundsl like I'm good to have the tree length brought to the house as well. I will sticker it to keep it off the ground. Will the tree length last longer left in tree length or should I buck it up as somebody mentioned to make it last longer? Still burning at night here in southern maine... :grrr:

 

[Oldmainer]

Hi Intheswamp...The wood that I put in my basement is a mix of hardwood...from swamp maple...red oak...birch...cherry...etc...off my own wood lot....some is also standing dead wood that I use too. I also use white pine...but c/s/s that out side and use during the cool months of spring and fall. My stove...and has been for 14 years...is a mid-sized All-Nighter...not a modern EPA stove....so I burn some wood that is probably not that dry. I run the de-humidifier in the basement for however long it takes for the amount of moisture to drop off that I'm collecting from the wood. I can't tell you for sure that my wood is seasoned because I don't have a moisture meter...but will say it burns nice and doesn't mess up my chimney that much...which I clean myself about three times a season. Try the de-humidifier thing and see for yourself how long it will take to dry out your wood. There are too many factors to contend with to say just how it will work for you. Oldmainer

 

[pen]

I advice against spraying firewood. Do a search in google on the topic and see what you find.

Here is one that I turned up.

"The best way to keep insects found on or inside logs out of your home, is to store and use the firewood so that you prevent their entry indoors," said Mike Potter, entomologist with the University of Kentucky College of Agriculture. "We strongly advise against spraying firewood with an insecticide. This practice is unnecessary, ineffective and could result in the release of harmful vapors when the wood is burned."

http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/news/1998/Nov/woodpest.htm

pen

 

[ikessky]

Has anyone ever done any tests on "seasoning" wood in their basements? I know I've seen some where people are weighing the wood, but that still doesn't get us the information we need. I want a moisture meter reading on a freshly split piece and then more readings as the months go on. I have a hard time believing that a little household dehumidifier is effectively pulling out half of the wood's moisture and getting it to the sub-20% that is recommended.

I would love to be proven wrong on this, so hopefully no one takes this as a cut on them.

 

[Kenster]

The bug issue has been addressed. My comment would be to get those logs bucked and split as soon as possible. The wood can sit in log length for years and still may not... will not be ready to burn until it has been split and stacked for at least a year or two.

 

[KarlP]

I have a hard time believing that a little household dehumidifier is effectively pulling out half of the wood's moisture and getting it to the sub-20% that is recommended.

Lets say a cord of green wood contains a ton of extra water. 2000lbs / 8 pounds per gallon = 250 gallons of water.

Lets say a household dehumidifier removes 5 gallons (40 pints/day seems reasonable if they advertise 70) of water a day from the air around the wood. If you could build a tent out of plastic around the wood and dehumidifier you wouldn't get additional moisture out of the other air in the basement.

250 gallons / 5 gallons a day = 50 days

 

[Kenster]

I have a hard time believing that a little household dehumidifier is effectively pulling out half of the wood's moisture and getting it to the sub-20% that is recommended.

Lets say a cord of green wood contains a ton of extra water. 2000lbs / 8 pounds per gallon = 250 gallons of water.

Lets say a household dehumidifier removes 5 gallons (40 pints/day seems reasonable if they advertise 70) of water a day from the air around the wood. If you could build a tent out of plastic around the wood and dehumidifier you wouldn't get additional moisture out of the other air in the basement.

250 gallons / 5 gallons a day = 50 days

The fallacy of your thinking is assuming that the wood will actually give up five gallons of water per day. Just because the machine can remove five gallons of water from the air each day does not mean it will suck the water out of a solid body of material. That humidifier sucks moisture out of the air, not the wood. For your theory to work, that stack of wood would actually have to drip out five gallons of water per day. I'm thinking that wood "exhales" a fraction of that amount into the air each day.

Look at it another way... the human body contains up to nine or so gallons of water. According to your theory, your household dehumidifier would completely dehydrate a human adult body in two days. That ain't happening.

 

[ikessky]

Lets say a cord of green wood contains a ton of extra water. 2000lbs / 8 pounds per gallon = 250 gallons of water.

Lets say a household dehumidifier removes 5 gallons (40 pints/day seems reasonable if they advertise 70) of water a day from the air around the wood. If you could build a tent out of plastic around the wood and dehumidifier you wouldn't get additional moisture out of the other air in the basement.

250 gallons / 5 gallons a day = 50 days

The fallacy of your thinking is assuming that the wood will actually give up five gallons of water per day. Just because the machine can remove five gallons of water from the air each day does not mean it will suck the water out of a solid body of material. That humidifier sucks moisture out of the air, not the wood. For your theory to work, that stack of wood would actually have to drip out five gallons of water per day. I'm thinking that wood "exhales" a fraction of that amount into the air each day.

Look at it another way... the human body contains up to nine or so gallons of water. According to your theory, your household dehumidifier would completely dehydrate a human adult body in two days. That ain't happening.

Further more, you still are making an assumption of what the moisture level is in the wood. Without knowing your starting point, how do you know how much water needs to be removed before you hit sub-20%?

 

[KarlP]

The fallacy of your thinking is assuming that the wood will actually give up five gallons of water per day. Just because the machine can remove five gallons of water from the air each day does not mean it will suck the water out of a solid body of material. That humidifier sucks moisture out of the air, not the wood. For your theory to work, that stack of wood would actually have to drip out five gallons of water per day. I'm thinking that wood "exhales" a fraction of that amount into the air each day.

Okay so maybe you need a fan or two to get the airflow up inside the plastic tent. I'm just talking about making a crude homemade dehumidifier kiln. There's all sorts of information about the right and wrong way to do it for drying lumber on the web. Since this isn't lumber there's no real concern about drying the wood too fast or too slow.

Look at it another way... the human body contains up to nine or so gallons of water. According to your theory, your household dehumidifier would completely dehydrate a human adult body in two days. That ain't happening.

Cut me into chunks that contain as much water as you are trying to remove from a single split of wood, put a fan on the chunks, and hook up the dehumidifier. I'm pretty sure you'd get human jerky in a couple days.

Further more, you still are making an assumption of what the moisture level is in the wood. Without knowing your starting point, how do you know how much water needs to be removed before you hit sub-20%?

If you look at cord wood weights they list a green weight and a dry weight. I used 2000lbs of water being removed as a WAG.

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/home/heating_cooling/firewood.html

 

[ikessky]

Karl, I'll agree that the theory behind it all says that it will work. I just think there are more variables than a person really realizes.

Anyway, I have no interest in adding all that moisture into my basement in the summer and risking problems with my home. I just want to make sure that we are all passing along true and useful information to the new comers so they don't think that they can cut in the fall and be ready to burn when the snow starts.

 

[Heaterhunter]

I'm going to have to get a moisture meter and do this experiment. I dried my wood last year using a dehumidifiyer and a box fan in the basement. Seemed to work great but I realize people want quantified greatness. What info would be needed for this? Time elapsed, MC, type of wood, location in stack... Any ideas?